FWIW: Hoopsworld Chat

[OSUBlazerfan]

The market says $6 to $8 million... Mike Bibby signed 3-years $18 million... Jason Kidd signed 3-years $25 million - so anywhere between is market... I have spoken to Miller's camp, they are working on a two-year deal in the $6.5 to $7 million per year range, which is right about where Miller should land... it will be a sign and trade, whether it's a two team deal or three team deal remains to be seen.

I think this is portland, i really do

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=385

 

[ebott]

I hope so. I think he'd be a good addition.

But I'm not sure I like the sign and trade talk. Who are we gonna send to Philly? If it's Travis Outlaw I just need to know where I sign. If it's Blake or anyone else that I consider valuable I'll pass.

 

[Mediocre Man]

That makes some sense.

I still think KP would be wise to S&T for Miller and then S&T for Lee.

That would really be a good off season.....depending on what he traded away. If it's Blake and Outlaw then kudos. If it's Batum and Bayless then fuck him.

A deal dending Blake to Philly for Miller at 7 million still leaves us in the neighborhood of 5 million. Travis to NY for Lee at say 8ish million would work.

If that happened though, Joel would opt out after this year.

The Blazers could trade Joel and Webster if he is healthy fo an upgrade at SF at that point. Battier??? Wallace????

Just thoughts.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

That makes some sense.

I still think KP would be wise to S&T for Miller and then S&T for Lee.

That would really be a good off season.....depending on what he traded away. If it's Blake and Outlaw then kudos. If it's Batum and Bayless then fuck him.

A deal dending Blake to Philly for Miller at 7 million still leaves us in the neighborhood of 5 million. Travis to NY for Lee at say 8ish million would work.

If that happened though, Joel would opt out after this year.

The Blazers could trade Joel and Webster if he is healthy fo an upgrade at SF at that point. Battier??? Wallace????

Just thoughts.

Yea, a little overestimation of KP's powers, need to see at least ONE move before i think ahead

But love all the ideas, especially crash

 

[SodaPopinski]

S&T allows us to keep the flexibility of adding someone major during the season for a team looking to do a salary dump.

If we sign Miller outright, we lose that flexibility.

BTW, I'm not a fan of signing Miller. I think some fans are falling in love with his game and not thinking about how it applies to the talent we have. I think he diminishes the talent of our best player.

Why do you think the Lakers have never tried to bring in a ball-dominant point guard? Because it takes the ball out of their best player's hands.

 

[RR7]

I think in regards to the Lakers, it has mroe to do with the triangle offense than Kobe, in my opinion. A ball dominant PG just doesn't fit all that well in the tirangle.

 

[SodaPopinski]

I think in regards to the Lakers, it has mroe to do with the triangle offense than Kobe, in my opinion. A ball dominant PG just doesn't fit all that well in the tirangle.

Fine ... then look at other teams who have a wing player who is their primary playmaker. The Cavs (Lebron) or the Heat (D-Wade). You can say the same about them. I can't see either of those teams maximizing their talents with a point guard who needs to create off the dribble. The Cavs were nails last year, and a lot of that had to do with their recruitment and integration of Mo Williams, who is mostly a perimeter threat for his position and not a playmaking threat.

To me, it makes no sense with our current structure to bring in a guy like Miller. I know we've beaten the three-point shooting thing to death, but there's a reason why it's been talked about ad nauseum. You need to spread the floor with Brandon in the game. Otherwise you make him a post-up player (which diminishes the strengths of LaMarcus and Oden) or you make him a spot-up guy (which would be a complete waste of Brandon's talents).

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think in regards to the Lakers, it has mroe to do with the triangle offense than Kobe, in my opinion. A ball dominant PG just doesn't fit all that well in the tirangle.

That's what I was going to say as well.

If you look around the league, there are many PG's who "dominate the ball" that play fine next to a good wing player

Miller played next to Iggy, who a lot of people....not me though, think is just about as good as Roy. I think he would be fine. I think he woul dactually help Roy our big time with longevity as well. Miller can feed the post, and he can drive and draw fouls. Last year, unless Bayless was in the game, Roy was the only player that had the ability or desire to do that. I think that hurt the team

 

[RR7]

I agree for the most part, but people were pointing to the usage rate of Andre Miller. Mo Williams had a higher usage rate last year(23.4) than Andre Miller has EVER had in his career. Which makes it seem he is more ball dominant than Andre Miller is. Playing longisde Lebron.

 

[RR7]

That's what I was going to say as well.

If you look around the league, there are many PG's who "dominate the ball" that play fine next to a good wing player

Miller played next to Iggy, who a lot of people....not me though, think is just about as good as Roy. I think he would be fine. I think he woul dactually help Roy our big time with longevity as well. Miller can feed the post, and he can drive and draw fouls. Last year, unless Bayless was in the game, Roy was the only player that had the ability or desire to do that. I think that hurt the team

Agree 100%. What's odd is many will complain about our offense, and the lack of creativity, lack of anyone else attacking, etc. But then when someone is suggested that doesn't fit exactly what we have done in the past(Miller), they say he won't fit.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I agree for the most part, but people were pointing to the usage rate of Andre Miller. Mo Williams had a higher usage rate last year(23.4) than Andre Miller has EVER had in his career. Which makes it seem he is more ball dominant than Andre Miller is. Playing longisde Lebron.

18 PG's had a higher usage rate. I am not sure how pace contributes to this though. Either way, 19th doesn't seem ball dominant to me.

Miller wasn't in the top 50 in usage rate, while Roy was 11th in the entire league.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Agree 100%. What's odd is many will complain about our offense, and the lack of creativity, lack of anyone else attacking, etc. But then when someone is suggested that doesn't fit exactly what we have done in the past(Miller), they say he won't fit.

Agreed 100%

 

[RR7]

I mean, i can see the reasoning for the most part. Thing is, in a tight game, last 3 minutes, if Roy is going to be going one on one for the most part, then you bring Rudy in, and take Miller out. Or, you have Rudy spotting up, and Aldridge spotting up, adn if it gets kicked out to Miller, instead of shooting a 3, he can catch the defense rotating, and penetrate and score or kick if need be.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I mean, i can see the reasoning for the most part. Thing is, in a tight game, last 3 minutes, if Roy is going to be going one on one for the most part, then you bring Rudy in, and take Miller out. Or, you have Rudy spotting up, and Aldridge spotting up, adn if it gets kicked out to Miller, instead of shooting a 3, he can catch the defense rotating, and penetrate and score or kick if need be.

Having two guys in at the end of the game that can penetrate would be awesome. Think of the mismatches that would create.

It would be like us on defense at the end of the game. Do you guys ever notice that Portland always leaves a player open for a three at the end of a game? that's because of penetration, and not really knowing where it's coming from.

I harped all last year about how easy our offense was to control, and it's because we don't don't have a lot of options. At the end of the game, if a team really wanted to shut us down they could just over play Roy and go 1-2 zone down low. With another player in the game that could drive as well they couldn't do that anymore.

 

[B-Roy]

Having two guys in at the end of the game that can penetrate would be awesome. Think of the mismatches that would create.

It would be like us on defense at the end of the game. Do you guys ever notice that Portland always leaves a player open for a three at the end of a game? that's because of penetration, and not really knowing where it's coming from.

I harped all last year about how easy our offense was to control, and it's because we don't don't have a lot of options. At the end of the game, if a team really wanted to shut us down they could just over play Roy and go 1-2 zone down low. With another player in the game that could drive as well they couldn't do that anymore.

Still, wasn't Portland one of the best teams in the league in regards to winning close games?

 

[Minstrel]

I'd be quite happy to add Andre Miller. In fact, happier to add Miller than I would have been over Turkoglu. Miller, despite being older, is better than Turk and will almost certainly be on a shorter deal. Miller is clearly not perfect, but I think his excellent distributing skills, slashing skills and solid (despite some decline) defense will make him a significant upgrade on Blake. I think the offense can certainly be tweaked to take advantage of Miller's strengths and mitigate his weakness (perimeter shooting). He can hit mid-range shots, which allows him to play off-the-ball. In addition, I think Roy can definitely adapt his game to play a bit more off-the-ball than he has to this point.

The team wasn't really that far off from being capable of a deep playoff run...improvement from their young core players and adding a talented point guard could very easily catapult them from "losing a tough matchup in the first round" to "giving the Lakers a tough fight in the WCF."

 

[hasoos]

Agreed 100%

I don't agree. I think the team is trading one weakness for a different one. You talk about how they double Brandon Roy at the end of the game, just wait until they sag off of Miller and let him shoot a 3 rather than penetrate. Or they use him to double off of because he is not a threat on the perimeter. Andre Miller is getting long in the tooth too. I have to wonder how effective he will be defensivly at this point of his career. Is he any upgrade at all there? Possibly, it would be hard not to.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think this is portland, i really do

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=385

Well, as Blake is our only PG and Jeter is a marginal NBA PG, it does make sense.

 

[RR7]

Well they obviously sagged off of Blake as well, to cover for Roy. Look how many 3s the team shot. Why? Because teams worry first about protecting the lane. There wasn't a defender assigned at all times to stick right on Blake at the 3 point line because he was a good shooter. They sagged off. It happens all the time in the NBA. Players sag. So if Blake couldn't keep them honest, why should we really worry about Miller not being able to.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don't agree. I think the team is trading one weakness for a different one. You talk about how they double Brandon Roy at the end of the game, just wait until they sag off of Miller and let him shoot a 3 rather than penetrate. Or they use him to double off of because he is not a threat on the perimeter. Andre Miller is getting long in the tooth too. I have to wonder how effective he will be defensivly at this point of his career. Is he any upgrade at all there? Possibly, it would be hard not to.

How many game winners did Blake hit? This is a real question. Teams play for penetration at the end of games. I don't recall Blake winning too many games on last second threes. although I think I remember it happening. Having two gurads that can get into the lane should open up more opportunities for open looks in theory. Spotting up Webster or Batum and Rudy, assuming Travis is gone, shoul dgive us more than enough fire power from 3

 

[Minstrel]

I don't agree. I think the team is trading one weakness for a different one. You talk about how they double Brandon Roy at the end of the game, just wait until they sag off of Miller and let him shoot a 3 rather than penetrate. Or they use him to double off of because he is not a threat on the perimeter.

If they sag off him, he'll shoot mid-range jumpers, not perimeter shots. If they double off him, he'll either nail mid-range jumpers or attack the hoop, forcing big men to rotate and drawing fouls or finding teammates (like the person the big man rotated away from--possibly...Oden?) with passes. It's not at all true that unless you're a good three-point shooter, defenses can ignore you. Defenses could ignore Rodriguez because he couldn't hit any sort of jumpers, nor was he a good finisher. Miller can hit mid-range jumpers and is a good finisher.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I don't agree. I think the team is trading one weakness for a different one. You talk about how they double Brandon Roy at the end of the game, just wait until they sag off of Miller and let him shoot a 3 rather than penetrate. Or they use him to double off of because he is not a threat on the perimeter. Andre Miller is getting long in the tooth too. I have to wonder how effective he will be defensivly at this point of his career. Is he any upgrade at all there? Possibly, it would be hard not to.

At the end of the game, we'll probably have PG/Roy/Rudy/LMA/Oden or PG/Roy/Rudy/TO/LMA in the game. If that PG is Miller, you have two slashers, one or two long-range shooters (depending on if TO is in), and one or two post options/pick setters. Swing the ball around, set picks on the high post, catch the defense lagging behind and either drive through the hole (if you're Miller/Roy -- they can't double both) or hit the spot up shooters. Miller's ability to drive makes up for his inability to spot up, especially at the end of the game when our long range heroes are typically TO or Rudy anyway.

 

[hasoos]

How many game winners did Blake hit? This is a real question. Teams play for penetration at the end of games. I don't recall Blake winning too many games on last second threes. although I think I remember it happening. Having two gurads that can get into the lane should open up more opportunities for open looks in theory. Spotting up Webster or Batum and Rudy, assuming Travis is gone, shoul dgive us more than enough fire power from 3

Actually Blake hit a couple of game winners this year.

Sure teams play for penetration. Do you really think Andre Miller will have the ball in his hands at the end of the game? Or will it be Roy? I know who I would place the ball to. They aren't named Miller.

I believe the guy that plays nex to Roy, needs to be a scorer. Both inside and out. Because Roy handles the ball so much, they almost need to be like a shooting guard, able to create a shot in a moments notice when Roy gets into trouble and the play breaks down, or hitting the open shot. Sure putting pressure on the paint is important. But there is no reason why your guy who penetrates the paint cannot hit an open jumper. You can have your cake and eat it too. Too many people are just willing to take the hit just to try something other than Steve Blake there, because we know what he brings to the table. A jump shooter.

If you trade for Miller, you trade one weakness for another it is that simple. We will gain in one way, lose in another. And still, nobody has told me that Miller will be an upgrade defensivly, which is more important than almost any of these aspects.

Good perimeter defense=Our bigs getting to stay in the game and dominate.

 

[B-Roy]

How many game winners did Blake hit?

One.

That's one more than Miller.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Sixers have made it clear they are seeking a sign and trade with Miller. This opens the door to many teams possibly having a chance to get Miller . . . yet only a couple of teams seem remotely interested.

There are a lot of teams in the NBA that could improve at the PG position and the only team outwardly expressing interest are the Knicks (which is a red flag by itself). I haven't studied Miller's game, but for a player who thinks he is worth 10 mil/yr, why aren't more teams (including his old team, as mentioned by soda) interested in upgrading at the PG position?

Maybe Miller isn't much of an upgrade . . . especially for what he thinks he is worth.

 

[Mediocre Man]

One.

That's one more than Miller.

Do we know that for a fact?

 

[Eastoff]

If it's Blake or anyone else that I consider valuable I'll pass.

So you want to get Andre Miller, a PG, who would probably start for the next two seasons, but not willing to trade your starting PG? What about Jay Bay?

 

[mook]

People are too hung up on the possible conflicts of Roy and Miller being on the court at the same time.

What should excite people is the definite benefit of having Roy or Miller on the court all the time. Imagine what a luxury it will be to have either running the show when the other team starts bringing in subs.

 

[RR7]

So what did Boston do with Rondo in end of game situations?

What did SA do with Tony Parker during end ofgame situations? Neither of those 2 can hit the 3.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Could we do Blake/Webs for Miller since they have NO need for Outlaw?
Still have our cap space for lopsided deal or another FA....