FWIW: John Gabriel On The Miles Saga

[Rastapopoulos]

Bingo!

I thought you only liked Chess-based exclamations?

 

[handiman]

What you're saying implies that, supposing the Rockets tired of McGrady, they could just have a string of doctors look at his back (which, I'm assuming, is just as problematic as knees, if not more) until one said it was career-ending? Is it really that much individual opinion?

I suspect the league & player's union would not approve of seeking multiple opinions in order to get the desired response. The Blazers got lucky with their first expert opinion, ran with it, and look foolish now.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I thought you only liked Chess-based exclamations?

I always thought it would be much better if KingSpeed, exclaimed, "King Me!" to make his points.

 

[Ed O]

I suspect the league & player's union would not approve of seeking multiple opinions in order to get the desired response. The Blazers got lucky with their first expert opinion, ran with it, and look foolish now.

They don't look foolish, in my opinion.

The Blazers knew Miles' knee was in bad shape, and they knew that he wouldn't play for a while... if ever. They filed for a medical retirement for Miles and it all worked... until this year.

Good try. It didn't work, but that doesn't mean they look foolish.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

They gave opinions that allowed the Blazers to waive him because Miles had injuries that, if he were to retire, could have been considered responsible for that retirement.

Ed O.

I'll agree with this now, solely because it makes the legal case that much stronger for the Blazers. The Blazers were not allowed to claim and, by doing so, guarantee the contract of an active and available NBA player.

So what if Portland didn't want to play Miles? There is no rule against stashing a player on the bench so he can't play elsewhere, is there? The Marbury situation seems to answer that question.

 

[handiman]

Good try. It didn't work, but that doesn't mean they look foolish.

The try itself didn't look foolish, but everything that came after it did, including KP's public comments immediately afterward that were not received well.

 

[Ed O]

I'll agree with this now, solely because it makes the legal case that much stronger for the Blazers.

Don't you feel this change of position indicates that you're not being serious about how you're looking at the situation?

The Blazers were not allowed to claim and, by doing so, guarantee the contract of an active and available NBA player.

I'm not convinced that the Blazers were not allowed to claim Miles.

So what if Portland didn't want to play Miles? There is no rule against stashing a player on the bench so he can't play elsewhere, is there? The Marbury situation seems to answer that question.

I was in favor of the Blazers attempting to claim him. I think that your points about the unfairness of the Grizzlies being able to claim him while Portland could have upgraded its 15th spot and/or denied other teams the services of Miles but were denied are pretty legit. IF the Blazers were denied the claim and/or threatened by the NBA.

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This is RIDICULOUSLY simple. I have no idea why you can't understand it.

Thank you, Euthyphro.

There are two components:

1. An absence from NBA games for a certain period, and
2. A medical reason for that absence.

Wow, I had no idea that Martell Webster was retired!

Miles did NOT suffer a career-ending injury. His career is continuing, and after one more appearance the allowance Portland was granted is no longer in effect.

Does he have to be able to score 11 points in 11 minutes for this to happen? Otherwise my hypothetical no-armed man's career is equally continuing. So (on your logic) loss of arms is not a career-ending injury. Neither, in fact, is just about anything. You could be paralyzed from the neck down and if your teammates could help you on to the floor for one second of court time, your "career" would be "continuing".

 

[maxiep]

I am just getting sick of everyone saying it was Portland who said he couldn't play anymore. It was the fucking independent Dr appointed by the league and the NBAPA who said he couldn't play anymore.

And no one has said he couldn't play anymore. Independent doctors said that his injury was severe enough that forcing Miles to continue to play (i.e., earning his contract) would, with a high degree of certainty, result in significant long-term damage to his knee joints. It's the NBA equivalent of worker's comp.

 

[maxiep]

What a lot of people fail to realize is that much in the medical field, and especially so with knees, is educated guesswork. You'll generally find what you're looking for, even if it's meaningless, making it easy to support a lot of potential diagnoses.

However, a diagnosis of a degenerative knee condition is pretty easy. First, you take a look at the thickness of the cartilage and the coverage on the knee and make a mathematical calculation.

Next, you examine all the MRI's taken over the past few years and compare and contrast them. In Miles' case, his knees got much worse over the past two years.

In this case, there's not a lot of guesswork. Miles' joints aren't properly protected by what should be there. The microfracture procedure he underwent didn't work. It's a certainty that he's facing a knee replacement in the future if he continues to play or at the very least excruciating pain. You can't ask someone facing that future to fulfill their contract. On the flip side, if he chooses to risk his own joint health, the Blazers shouldn't be held accountable.

 

[maxiep]

I suspect the league & player's union would not approve of seeking multiple opinions in order to get the desired response. The Blazers got lucky with their first expert opinion, ran with it, and look foolish now.

So, how does the NBA and the NBAPA look since their expert opinion arrived at the same conclusion?

 

[BatumKaboom]

This thread sucks.

 

[maxiep]

This thread sucks.

Why?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

However, a diagnosis of a degenerative knee condition is pretty easy. First, you take a look at the thickness of the cartilage and the coverage on the knee and make a mathematical calculation.

Next, you examine all the MRI's taken over the past few years and compare and contrast them. In Miles' case, his knees got much worse over the past two years.

In this case, there's not a lot of guesswork. Miles' joints aren't properly protected by what should be there. The microfracture procedure he underwent didn't work. It's a certainty that he's facing a knee replacement in the future if he continues to play or at the very least excruciating pain. You can't ask someone facing that future to fulfill their contract. On the flip side, if he chooses to risk his own joint health, the Blazers shouldn't be held accountable.

I'm curious to know how you know this stuff, but it's certainly interesting stuff. Here's where it's even more ridiculous that the league combines doctors' opinions PLUS the actions of other teams to decide if an injury is "career ending". Presumably any team could know this. Why couldn't it be the case that for a team like Portland, who is investing a lot of money in Miles, he just can't perform anywhere near to the worth of their contract (i.e., can't play heavy minutes if needed - that is, fulfill his contract) without destroying the knee, but for a team like Memphis he could? In that case, it seems fair to me to say that for Portland his knee is legitimately career (as a Portland Trailblazer)- ending, even if he goes on to play limited minutes on ten-day contracts for other teams. So even if another team signs him, Portland should get cap relief.

I'm perfectly willing to allow that Portland should lose the cap space if independent doctors decide that the doctors that examined Miles were wrong to conclude that he couldn't pay SIGNIFICANT MINUTES without crippling damage. But this "ten games" stuff proves nothing.

 

[maxiep]

I'm curious to know how you know this stuff, but it's certainly interesting stuff.

Multiple cartilage injuries and surgeries. I have the same condition in my knees that Darius does. I blew out both my ACL and MCL and recovery from that injury was a cakewalk compared to the day-to-day pain I experience from bone-on-bone.

All I'm trying to do is defer a complete knee replacement until the promise of artificial/regrown cartilage becomes a reality.