Game Thread GAME# 11: BLAZERS @ KINGS - NOVEMBER 12, 2019 - TUESDAY, 7:00 PM, NBATV & NBCSNW

[Blazers1977]

Honest question, is Stotts’ job in jeopardy at all if the team continues to play at a 0.360 clip? Should it be in jeopardy?

I’m not sure what kind of dirt Stotts has on Olshey to have this type of job security, but hopefully Jody Allen sees through this BS and fires both of them. For just once in Dame’s NBA career I’d like to see him coached by a semi-competent coach who can help maximize his talents (and yes, I do think Dame can improve his game from where he’s at currently to be a Top 5 player with improved defence and better passing). It just saddens me that Dame’s prime is being wasted playing for a coach who will never get the team to play at or near a championship level. When was the last time you said to yourself, gee Coach Stotts really outcoached the opposing coach? Think back to his entire tenure with the Blazers... has it ever happened? I can think of numerous examples of him being outcoached though. Shit, he was outcoached tonight by a guy (Walton) with a career 0.398 winning percentage. Let that sink in. For all you Stotts fanboys, would Stotts have a better than 0.500 record if it weren’t for Dame?

who are we gonna replace him with? There isn’t a remotely better alternative.

Listening to Stotts in the post-game, it seems clear he’s not panicking at all. He knew there would be a steep learning curve. I don’t think anyone in the blazers organization is panicking tbh, it’s only the fans. Our weaknesses are all simple fixes, it’s just gonna take time playing together.

 

[Tince]

2. In the 4OT Game 3 vs the Nuggets, everyone was praising Stotts and giving him credit for putting Hood in the game in the 4th OT. But in the post-game, he himself admitted that it really wasn't his decision. Mo had calf cramps that forced Stotts to put Hood in.

.

So far you two examples of his gameplan ability is game 82 of last season and Stotts saying an Harkless cramping caused him to play Hood? These are 2 decisions out of probably 10,000 he's made. Undoubtedly Stotts made plenty of bad decisions out of 10,000 when going against another coach who is also making 10,000 decision to try to out smart him. These random examples aren't proof of any long term factual game plan one way or another.

 

[OneSport3]

Nothing has changed from the game plan that got us to the WCF?

How are you coming to the conclusion Dame is improving but Stotts isn't? If you don't see changes, is it possible that they're happening, but you just don't see them?

Portland is consistently lowest in the league in team assists per game, teams constantly blitz and double team Dame yet Stotts insists on employing the pick-and-roll which makes it easier to blitz and double team him, lower to middle tier defensive team.

 

[Tince]

Interesting how Stotts gets 0 credit for how good Lillard has turned out, even though Stotts has been Lillard’s only NBA coach and Lillard praises him highly.

Well said. Both sides of the argument want to use failures/successes to prove their point, but are quick to dismiss the opposite. I no doubt do it myself!

 

[B-Roy]

making it worse, in my view, is that Dame came in averaging 38.6 minutes and he played 38 minutes tonight, 2 nights after playing 44 minutes, and there's a trip home tonight followed by a game tomorrow night. And following that is a road trip of 6 games in 9 nights with a back2back

Stotts is grinding Dame down just to post a losing record. He's burning thru energy that Dame will need later in the season. it's fucking stupid

absolutely I'm ok with it. I'd rather have the Blazers at 3-8 right now with Dame averaging 35 minutes than at 4-7 with Dame averaging 39. I mean for chrissakes, Dame played 40.2 minutes and scored 60 points, at home, against a team with a losing record, and the Blazers still lost.

I didn't believe the prevailing narrative about this year's team being better than last years, and after watching this team for 11 games, it's obviously not more talented. Yeah, injuries have an impact but just about every team has a significant injury or two. The Kings were missing two starters tonight and Dedmon only played 7 minutes because of a bad ankle. Stotts needs to think long term and going all out to win games early (and failing) is going to carry a cost later in the season

someone asked Stotts if he was concerned with Dame and CJs minutes so far this season. He said no. Blazers did a study on guys in the past that averaged 38+ mpg and found no discernible difference in those players wearing down sooner. In all honesty I’m more inclined to agree with him. This whole minute managing thing hasn’t really come up until the last few years, and while I understand it to an extend for guys with lingering injury issues, Dame has been relatively injury free his entire career. LeBron has more miles on those legs than anyone in the league and he’s still out here at age 34 as an MVP candidate. And he’s just one example. If you look at guys before this decade you’ll see most of them have seasons where they push 38-39mpg and are fine.

 

[OneSport3]

Interesting how Stotts gets 0 credit for how good Lillard has turned out, even though Stotts has been Lillard’s only NBA coach and Lillard praises him highly.

That's great, Dame loves him and Lillard has improved. But he's not just Dame's coach, he is the Blazers coach.

 

[BonesJones]

I respect you even when we disagree, but your previous comment makes me think you don't always watch the variations of our sets.

We currently get very few shots for our horrible screen setting and offensive inept front court players.I'm thankful for that. Dame's percentage at the rim this season is off the charts high.

I've charted sets before. We've been bottom 5 in assists going on 5 years now, but people want to blame "screens" from one guy. It's silly.

We don't move. We don't cut. We don't screen off the ball unless we're trying to free a guy to run away from the hoop, towards the sideline, or on some looping backdoor action that we never throw. The thing with all these actions is that they don't free anyone to go towards the rim. They usually result in a player catching the ball on the perimeter and we're right where we started. Then, we have to try to create off the dribble which is why so many sets end up resulting in isolation or backing the ball out and running pick n roll. Or those options aren't open and we waste 14 seconds of shot clock standing at halfcourt like the play I showed you. Meanwhile, there's so many actions that could help our offense that we don't utilize which could really help our offense out. Dame wouldn't have to do as much, CJ could maybe get a flow within a system, we could get guys on the move with looks around the rim, and hopefully the action would spark better ball movement.

But no, we have sets like this and Horns (which usually ends up with the guy in the corner coming up for a handoff then having to create off the perimeter).

Our sets are the worst in the league. I can say that with confidence.

 

[Tince]

Portland is consistently lowest in the league in team assists per game, teams constantly blitz and double team Dame yet Stotts insists on employing the pick-and-roll which makes it easier to blitz and double team him, lower to middle tier defensive team.

This is interesting. I've got one guy telling me all Stotts does EVERY play is run a 1 on 5 play. You are saying we run the pick & roll over and over. Interestingly, isolation and pick & roll are the two most common plays in the NBA>

Assists are a tricky measurement to prove anything. Are the Blazers consistently lowest in the league in offensive efficiency? That would be a much better tell of the effectiveness of the offensive gameplan. It's also interesting to look at guys offensive productivity pre and post their stops in Portland. I'd have to really breakdown the data on that last part to see if we see a trend one direction or another. I'm not going to use one or two players as an example to prove my point because it might not be accurate.

 

[BonesJones]

someone asked Stotts if he was concerned with Dame and CJs minutes so far this season. He said no. Blazers did a study on guys in the past that averaged 38+ mpg and found no discernible difference in those players wearing down sooner. In all honesty I’m more inclined to agree with him. This whole minute managing thing hasn’t really come up until the last few years, and while I understand it to an extend for guys with lingering injury issues, Dame has been relatively injury free his entire career. LeBron has more miles on those legs than anyone in the league and he’s still out here at age 34 as an MVP candidate. And he’s just one example. If you look at guys before this decade you’ll see most of them have seasons where they push 38-39mpg and are fine.

It hasn't come up because Dame and CJ weren't getting over 38 minutes per game...

 

[BBert]

making it worse, in my view, is that Dame came in averaging 38.6 minutes and he played 38 minutes tonight, 2 nights after playing 44 minutes, and there's a trip home tonight followed by a game tomorrow night. And following that is a road trip of 6 games in 9 nights with a back2back

Stotts is grinding Dame down just to post a losing record. He's burning thru energy that Dame will need later in the season. it's fucking stupid

I only caught the 4th quarter. Dame looked worn out at the end.

 

[Tince]

I've charted sets before. We've been bottom 5 in assists going on 5 years now, but people want to blame "screens" from one guy. It's silly.

We don't move. We don't cut. We don't screen off the ball unless we're trying to free a guy to run away from the hoop, towards the sideline, or on some looping backdoor action that we never throw. The thing with all these actions is that they don't free anyone to go towards the rim. They usually result in a player catching the ball on the perimeter and we're right where we started. Then, we have to try to create off the dribble which is why so many sets end up resulting in isolation or backing the ball out and running pick n roll. Or those options aren't open and we waste 14 seconds of shot clock standing at halfcourt like the play I showed you. Meanwhile, there's so many actions that could help our offense that we don't utilize which could really help our offense out. Dame wouldn't have to do as much, CJ could maybe get a flow within a system, we could get guys on the move with looks around the rim, and hopefully the action would spark better ball movement.

But no, we have sets like this and Horns (which usually ends up with the guy in the corner coming up for a handoff then having to create off the perimeter).

Our sets are the worst in the league. I can say that with confidence.

That's amazing that last year we were bottom five in assists, ran the worst sets, and were 3rd in the league in adjusted offensive rating. Especially given Harkless and Aminu couldn't shoot. Something doesn't add up there.

One thing I found out when I worked for Synergy was that when I gave other teams as much attention as I did the Blazers, I saw all their warts. Maybe you are so focused on the Blazers you are unable to see how they truly compare to other teams .

 

[OneSport3]

who are we gonna replace him with? There isn’t a remotely better alternative.

Listening to Stotts in the post-game, it seems clear he’s not panicking at all. He knew there would be a steep learning curve. I don’t think anyone in the blazers organization is panicking tbh, it’s only the fans. Our weaknesses are all simple fixes, it’s just gonna take time playing together.

Stotts-apologists always resort to, "who are you going to replace him with?" Well, you know what you do? You do a coaching search. Look at Nick Nurse, look at Steve Kerr. Guys with ZERO head coaching experience that turned out to be high-quality coaches.

 

[BonesJones]

This is interesting. I've got one guy telling me all Stotts does EVERY play is run a 1 on 5 play. You are saying we run the pick & roll over and over. Interestingly, isolation and pick & roll are the two most common plays in the NBA>

Assists are a tricky measurement to prove anything. Are the Blazers consistently lowest in the league in offensive efficiency? That would be a much better tell of the effectiveness of the offensive gameplan. It's also interesting to look at guys offensive productivity pre and post their stops in Portland. I'd have to really breakdown the data on that last part to see if we see a trend one direction or another. I'm not going to use one or two players as an example to prove my point because it might not be accurate.

Thing is, other teams are able to understand when it's not working and they quickly adjust by running sets who's end result isn't more isolation and pick n roll.

The Blazers aren't lowest in the league in offensive efficiency because they have possibly the most offensively talented backcourt in the league right now. They also had an efficient, 20ppg PER 36 center who was a terrific passer.

It a good system, this team should be top 10 in offensive efficiency. We might have the best offensive player in the league right now and have nothing to show for it.

 

[Blazers1977]

Stotts-apologists always resort to, "who are you going to replace him with?" Well, you know what you do? You do a coaching search. Look at Nick Nurse, look at Steve Kerr. Guys with ZERO head coaching experience that turned out to be high-quality coaches.

not sure you have to be a “Stotts apologist” to realize that firing a reasonably-successful coach and having no backup plan just bc you’re frustrated is a terrible idea dude.

Stotts might not be the best coach in the league but I bet he’s better than all the unemployed scrubs begging for work.

 

[BonesJones]

That's amazing that last year we were bottom five in assists, ran the worst sets, and were 3rd in the league in adjusted offensive rating. Especially given Harkless and Aminu couldn't shoot. Something doesn't add up there.

Those guys could finish around the rim though, and were solid cutters. Those guys got way too much hate.

Dame and C.J. are able to excel in spite of our system, since they're great at creating something out of nothing. However, when they're struggling with that, we struggle mightily, and that's why we got swept by the Pelicans and Warriors the last couple years. Right now, are role players are struggling even more but the system is doing them no favors at all. Guys like Mario should be used as an active mover and cutter offensively. Nope, dude just stands around.

 

[BonesJones]

not sure you have to be a “Stotts apologist” to realize that firing a reasonably-successful coach and having no backup plan just bc you’re frustrated is a terrible idea dude

Depends on how you define "success".

 

[BonesJones]

Stotts-apologists always resort to, "who are you going to replace him with?" Well, you know what you do? You do a coaching search. Look at Nick Nurse, look at Steve Kerr. Guys with ZERO head coaching experience that turned out to be high-quality coaches.

I was begging for Mike Budenholzer in the summer of 2018. Look how he turned out in Milwaukee.

 

[Blazers1977]

Depends on how you define "success".

so do you think we should fire Stotts? Or are you just criticizing his plays?

 

[B-Roy]

It hasn't come up because Dame and CJ weren't getting over 38 minutes per game...

this was after the Atlanta game where Dame and CJ were already 1 and 2 in minutes played. 39 and 38 respectively



you can watch the video yourself. They asked CJ too and CJ said it’s fine.

 

[BonesJones]

That's amazing that last year we were bottom five in assists, ran the worst sets, and were 3rd in the league in adjusted offensive rating. Especially given Harkless and Aminu couldn't shoot. Something doesn't add up there.

One thing I found out when I worked for Synergy was that when I gave other teams as much attention as I did the Blazers, I saw all their warts. Maybe you are so focused on the Blazers you are unable to see how they truly compare to other teams .

I watch a ton of NBA basketball my guy, and I love paying attention to set actions. I also do so unbiasedly.

 

[BonesJones]

so do you think we should fire Stotts? Or are you just criticizing his plays?

We should've fired Stotts in 2018 and hired Mike Budenholzer.

 

[BonesJones]

this was after the Atlanta game where Dame and CJ were already 1 and 2 in minutes played. 39 and 38 respectively



you can watch the video yourself. They asked CJ too and CJ said it’s fine.

You really think C.J. is going to say he isn't?

 

[Blazers1977]

We should've fired Stotts in 2018 and hired Mike Budenholzer.

What about going forward?

 

[BonesJones]

What about going forward?

Ettore Messina or Ime Udoka.

 

[Tince]

Those guys could finish around the rim though, and were solid cutters. Those guys got way too much hate.

Dame and C.J. are able to excel in spite of our system, since they're great at creating something out of nothing. However, when they're struggling with that, we struggle mightily, and that's why we got swept by the Pelicans and Warriors the last couple years. Right now, are role players are struggling even more but the system is doing them no favors at all. Guys like Mario should be used as an active mover and cutter offensively. Nope, dude just stands around.

Looks like we've got some common ground here. I agree with you on Aminu and Harkless. Olshey hired Stotts, should know his strengths and weaknesses, and should be giving him a roster that compliments it. The only reason I'm giving Olshey a pass right now is because no NBA team is going to have long term success missing their entire front court. This is the reason why bashing on Olshey, Stotts, or most anyone is completely missing the point.

 

[BonesJones]

Looks like we've got some common ground here. I agree with you on Aminu and Harkless. Olshey hired Stotts, should know his strengths and weaknesses, and should be giving him a roster that compliments it. The only reason I'm giving Olshey a pass right now is because no NBA team is going to have long term success missing their entire front court. This is the reason why bashing on Olshey, Stotts, or most anyone is completely missing the point.

That's just a convenient excuse for Stotts apologists to fall back on. We've already seen multiple injury-laden teams still play a good brand of basketball. You can still run a good system with trash players which can provide them with good opportunities (if they're trash, they likely won't convert, but at least the opportunities are there).

We don't play a good brand of offense. It's better with Nurk, but we shouldn't be so reliant on one guy in order to play a good brand, because other teams aren't.

 

[Tince]

I watch a ton of NBA basketball my guy, and I love paying attention to set actions. I also do so unbiasedly.

I believe you do, but your statements weren't matching what I assume you knew.

Now at the end you're lying to yourself. You are a Blazer fan, I am a Blazer fan; that means we have an unconscious bias and can't look at them through the same lense that we look at other teams.

I literally spent a couple seasons watching all 30 teams at a near equal level and boy was it eye opening. I know how much time you spend on the Blazers so I know it would be impossible for you to devote that much attention to each of the other 29 teams.

 

[B-Roy]

You really think C.J. is going to say he isn't?

What are you even responding to anymore? It has nothing to do with the original discussion. I’m merely giving you the video to show your initial dumb quip was wrong.

 

[OneSport3]

not sure you have to be a “Stotts apologist” to realize that firing a reasonably-successful coach and having no backup plan just bc you’re frustrated is a terrible idea dude.

Stotts might not be the best coach in the league but I bet he’s better than all the unemployed scrubs begging for work.

Let me say it again, it's called doing a coaching search. Do you know who the coach of the Raptors was before Nick Nurse? It was Dwayne Casey. Do you know who the Coach of the Year was that year? Dwayne Casey.

Your reasonably successful coach has already shown his limitations.

 

[Tince]

That's just a convenient excuse for Stotts apologists to fall back on. We've already seen multiple injury-laden teams still play a good brand of basketball. You can still run a good system with trash players which can provide them with good opportunities (if they're trash, they likely won't convert, but at least the opportunities are there).

We don't play a good brand of offense. It's better with Nurk, but we shouldn't be so reliant on one guy in order to play a good brand, because other teams aren't.

A "good brand" is an opinion and not measurable, so I'll agree that you don't like Stotts "brand'. They were 3rd last season in adjusted offensive efficiency. I'll take results over "brand" any day.

This year, we made a lot of moves, have a lot of injuries, and we stink offensively. I'm not going to point to a successful constant (Dame or Stotts) as the problem and ignore that there is likely a correlation between the roster moves/injuries and the dip in the outcome.