Game Thread GAME# 11: BLAZERS @ KINGS - NOVEMBER 12, 2019 - TUESDAY, 7:00 PM, NBATV & NBCSNW

[riverman]

I think blown coverages and poor execution is having 9 new players who are still learning the playbook and your frontcourt injured, playing your 3rd stringers 10 games into a season...Stotts sees blown coverage or poor execution and doesn't melt down...so the way I see it...his detractors melt down and point at him. I disagree. He's a great, coach but a patient one and a guy who experiments with rosters early every season. He's playing Nas, Moses, Trent Jr this early in the season...he doesn't have an ideal situation for success right now but he has my support as a fan..He's as pissed at losing as anyone...probably more so

 

[Tince]

Let me say it again, it's called doing a coaching search. Do you know who the coach of the Raptors was before Nick Nurse? It was Dwayne Casey. Do you know who the Coach of the Year was that year? Dwayne Casey.

Your reasonably successful coach has already shown his limitations.

I said I would not use COTY voting as a solid measurement of a coaches ability. Bones brought it up as a metric to disprove Stotts ability to coach and I was simply pointing out that 2 out of the 3 years prior to the year he got not votes, he did get votes, including a 2nd place finish. I do NOT think that finishing 2nd proves he's a good coach and I don't think him getting zero votes proves he's not a good coach.

 

[Tince]

Your reasonably successful coach has already shown his limitations.

The WCF with two below average starting forwards. I agree, that is his limitations. Stotts is not a good enough coach to get the Blazers to the finals when 40% of the starting lineup are filled with 6th and 7th man quality players. Few coaches are good enough to take a team of that level to the finals unless they have the best player in the NBA

 

[BonesJones]

I believe you do, but your statements weren't matching what I assume you knew.

Now at the end you're lying to yourself. You are a Blazer fan, I am a Blazer fan; that means we have an unconscious bias and can't look at them through the same lense that we look at other teams.

I literally spent a couple seasons watching all 30 teams at a near equal level and boy was it eye opening. I know how much time you spend on the Blazers so I know it would be impossible for you to devote that much attention to each of the other 29 teams.

Quit kidding yourself. You can be a fan of the team and watch their sets, and then compare them against other teams sets objectively.

I'll have to put out a video at somepoint to really show what I'm talking about. But the people that won't criticize Stotts will still look at it a certain way.

 

[BonesJones]

The WCF with two below average starting forwards. I agree, that is his limitations. Stotts is not a good enough coach to get the Blazers to the finals when 40% of the starting lineup are filled with 6th and 7th man quality players. Few coaches are good enough to take a team of that level to the finals unless they have the best player in the NBA

And two really good forwards off the bench that won us that 2nd round series by playing much more than our starting forwards. But that doesn't fit the narrative...

 

[OneSport3]

The WCF with two below average starting forwards. I agree, that is his limitations. Stotts is not a good enough coach to get the Blazers to the finals when 40% of the starting lineup are filled with 6th and 7th man quality players. Few coaches are good enough to take a team of that level to the finals unless they have the best player in the NBA

In all honesty, do you really believe that Stotts has what it takes to lead this team to a championship? If you say yes, we’ll leave it at that.

 

[BonesJones]

I said I would not use COTY voting as a solid measurement of a coaches ability. Bones brought it up as a metric to disprove Stotts ability to coach and I was simply pointing out that 2 out of the 3 years prior to the year he got not votes, he did get votes, including a 2nd place finish. I do NOT think that finishing 2nd proves he's a good coach and I don't think him getting zero votes proves he's not a good coach.

You were touting how "national media" doesn't criticize Stotts, but they vote for COTY.... I pointed that out along with the response to game 1 of the WCF, when Stotts was laughed at by the national media you're touting, but you only focused on the COTY thing.

Selective listening...

 

[Tince]

Quit kidding yourself. You can be a fan of the team and watch their sets, and then compare them against other teams sets objectively.

I'll have to put out a video at somepoint to really show what I'm talking about. But the people that won't criticize Stotts will still look at it a certain way.

You don't have to talk to me about comparing. I spent two full seasons breaking down tape of 10+ games for each of the 30 teams. I doubt anyone else here has done that.

Pulling clips of good plays by one team and comparing it to bad plays of another would prove absolutely nothing. I could make a video that would make Stotts look like the best coach in the history of the NBA or a guy who couldn't hold Mo Cheeks jock strap. Neither would be a true reflection of his abilities.

What is your explanation for how Portland finished 3rd in offensive rating last year? You have to agree that is a much more telling stat than assists.

 

[BonesJones]

A "good brand" is an opinion and not measurable, so I'll agree that you don't like Stotts "brand'. They were 3rd last season in adjusted offensive efficiency. I'll take results over "brand" any day.

This year, we made a lot of moves, have a lot of injuries, and we stink offensively. I'm not going to point to a successful constant (Dame or Stotts) as the problem and ignore that there is likely a correlation between the roster moves/injuries and the dip in the outcome.

I mean, if you think 0 ball movement, player movement, and no sets that put pressure on the defense through design is a good brand, then that's fine. But you're arguing semantics now, not basketball.

I've already explained that we were 3rd in offensive efficiency last season because of our backcourt, center, and we had wings that could finish and weren't as bad as people acted like. People always blame the players or something else (for example, Tolliver for not switching against Philadelphia when it wasn't the gameplan coming out of the huddle.

 

[BonesJones]

You don't have to talk to me about comparing. I spent two full seasons breaking down tape of 10+ games for each of the 30 teams. I doubt anyone else here has done that.

Pulling clips of good plays by one team and comparing it to bad plays of another would prove absolutely nothing. I could make a video that would make Stotts look like the best coach in the history of the NBA or a guy who couldn't hold Mo Cheeks jock strap. Neither would be a true reflection of his abilities.

What is your explanation for how Portland finished 3rd in offensive rating last year? You have to agree that is a much more telling stat than assists.

I'd love to see this video. Do it.

I've already explained that multiple times, too.

 

[riverman]

In all honesty, do you really believe that Stotts has what it takes to lead this team to a championship? If you say yes, we’ll leave it at that.

I do...definitely do. Contrary to some folks take on Stotts, it's enjoyable to admire and respect the process and there's no need to be judged for having that opinion, I don't care how many fucking games somebody watches ...Stotts will have his team better as the season progresses, he always does. It's been a rough start with some bad injury luck. By this team you mean with Nurk, Pau, Hood and Zach healthy I assume

 

[Tince]

In all honesty, do you really believe that Stotts has what it takes to lead this team to a championship? If you say yes, we’ll leave it at that.

That is a great question. Could he be the head coach of a championship team? Sure, I think a good chunk of coaches could be depending on how dominant their roster is. I don't think their is a coach in the history of the NBA that could win a championship with this current roster. Do you think we could hire a coach this year to replace Stotts that would lead us to a championship season this year?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

That's just a convenient excuse for Stotts apologists to fall back on. We've already seen multiple injury-laden teams still play a good brand of basketball. You can still run a good system with trash players which can provide them with good opportunities (if they're trash, they likely won't convert, but at least the opportunities are there).

We don't play a good brand of offense. It's better with Nurk, but we shouldn't be so reliant on one guy in order to play a good brand, because other teams aren't.

Post of the night.

 

[Tince]

I'd love to see this video. Do it.

I've already explained that multiple times, too.

Why would I waste my time to pull a ridiculously small sample size of clips in attempt to prove something that isn't true? That doesn't make sense.

Ok, sorry, I didn't think you thought assists was the far superior measure of offensive success vs adjust offensive rating, My bad.

I'm off to bed. Love the debates and I respect anyone such as yourself who can disagree so strongly but not make it about personal insults, so cheers to you! We all want the same thing in the end!

 

[riverman]

Post of the night.

I think it's a skewed post because nights when a trash roster shoots lights out from 3 is not always because of coaching and we've seen that happen...also not being able to make a shot or free throw isn't on coaching either...it's all about execution

 

[VanillaGorilla]

someone asked Stotts if he was concerned with Dame and CJs minutes so far this season. He said no. Blazers did a study on guys in the past that averaged 38+ mpg and found no discernible difference in those players wearing down sooner. In all honesty I’m more inclined to agree with him. This whole minute managing thing hasn’t really come up until the last few years, and while I understand it to an extend for guys with lingering injury issues, Dame has been relatively injury free his entire career. LeBron has more miles on those legs than anyone in the league and he’s still out here at age 34 as an MVP candidate. And he’s just one example. If you look at guys before this decade you’ll see most of them have seasons where they push 38-39mpg and are fine.

I've honestly never understood why people think there's such a huge difference between 35 mpg and 38 mpg. Of course I understand that 3 extra minutes over 82 games adds up, but it seems like mostly an arbitrary difference. Unless there is specific proof of an exact minute cutoff, which I don't think is really even possible, the argument could be made for 33 mpg, or 30 mpg, and so on.

 

[OneSport3]

That is a great question. Could he be the head coach of a championship team? Sure, I think a good chunk of coaches could be depending on how dominant their roster is. I don't think their is a coach in the history of the NBA that could win a championship with this current roster. Do you think we could hire a coach this year to replace Stotts that would lead us to a championship season this year?

I don’t believe Stotts is a championship caliber coach and I don’t believe we can hire someone this year that could lead to a championship. Without a full training camp it would be difficult to integrate a new coach. However, I believe that process of finding a new coach should have started about 2 seasons ago.

I believe keeping Stotts is maintaining the status quo and I don’t believe you can improve maintaining the status quo. I would much rather risk the change. Now, is there a chance the next coach is Vinny Del Negro status? Sure, but that’s a risk I’d be willing to take to find the next Steve Kerr, Nick Nurse, etc

 

[B-Roy]

I've honestly never understood why people think there's such a huge difference between 35 mpg and 38 mpg. Of course I understand that 3 extra minutes over 82 games adds up, but it seems like mostly an arbitrary difference. Unless there is specific proof of an exact minute cutoff, which I don't think is really even possible, the argument could be made for 33 mpg, or 30 mpg, and so on.

It's literally running 3 more minutes a day. That's not going to kill you. Over the course of 82 games and 6 months it's like running 2 extra hours TOTAL. Now I get that it's 2 hours of extra time where they can get into a freak accident, but for conditioning....these guys are professional athletes. And from everything I've seen Dame and CJ are guys that take nutrition and health very seriously. They aren't Dwight Howard eating candy bars every day, or Raymond Felton binging on donuts. As long as they avoid a freak accident I really don't think they will be more tired come April playing 38MPG vs 35MPG or 32 MPG.

 

[riverman]

I don’t believe Stotts is a championship caliber coach and I don’t believe we can hire someone this year that could lead to a championship. Without a full training camp it would be difficult to integrate a new coach. However, I believe that process of finding a new coach should have started about 2 seasons ago.

I believe keeping Stotts is maintaining the status quo and I don’t believe you can improve maintaining the status quo. I would much rather risk the change. Now, is there a chance the next coach is Vinny Del Negro status? Sure, but that’s a risk I’d be willing to take to find the next Steve Kerr, Nick Nurse, etc

fair enough, that's a sensible take from your point of view. Appreciate actual baskeball posts that aren't divisive in nature. I understand not being a fan of a coach...I didn't like Nate ball much.

 

[GDiama]

wtf is Whiteside doing really? this possession is pathetic.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

wtf is Whiteside doing really? this possession is pathetic.

The screens are bad but CJ isn't helping either by jogging slowly and not trying to run his defender into the screen at all.

 

[Strenuus]

I just want stotts fired. It needed to happen 3 years ago.

Dame and cj got us to the wcf in spite of stotts. All the success this team has had the last few years is in spite of stotts.

Thats just facts. Theres no argument, its already true.

 

[LayneStaley]

I haven’t read this thread but it’s pretty obvious we have Downgraded at the forward positions imo. I realize Zach being hurt has a lot to do with that but I don’t think Tolliver or Mario are rotational pieces on a good team.

 

[Driew]

The amount of color analysts from opposing teams calling our games that gush about Stotts as a coach is enough for me to understand he's fine as a coach.

I do think it'd be interesting to take a chance on David Vanterpool if we did fire stotts but Stotts isn't the issue.

 

[hoopsjock]

Who were all you people giving me shit for calling out Whiteside's screens in Game 2 this season?

@hoopsjock ? Do you believe me now that this guy sucks?

That's what you got out of that video?

1) Those type of screens rarely work, I don't care who it is.

2) if you set a good screen there the refs will probably call you for an illegal screen anyway.

3) Why are we not playing to Whiteside's strengths if he's such a bad screener?

 

[hoopsjock]

BTW, I think we can all agree that Olshey took a huge gamble on Whiteside. The obvious explanation is that he thought the combination of a contract year and Dame's leadership would make a difference. Can't blame Stotts for that, and I can't even blame Olshey too much.

We also needed someone to fill in for Nurk. The thing is we need that big contract for trades.

 

[hoopsjock]

I can't stand Whiteside, but even I don't care about the Hassan addition that much because we didn't give up anything. Meyers is useless and we benched Moe (and Aminu) in favor of Hood and Zach last year in the playoffs. It made sense to take a risk there to see if we could at least reproduce Kanter's impact til Nurk returned.

What eats at me is the lack of forward depth we built around them. Tolliver is GARBAGE. We can find G League players who are 1000x better than him. We let Layman (who is closing games in Minny, btw) walk in favor of signing this scrub???? Mario was supposed to be a fourth string reclamation project. Him starting is an affront to this fanbase. And then we get a washed up Pau who isn't even close to returning from his injury? Then we decide to play Hood at PF more and exacerbate his injury risk even further because of the lack of forward depth?

I blame Neil more than anyone for this shit start, but Terry also needs to realize he has different personnel and try to manage their strengths instead of running the same shit he has for 4 yrs now. And he has to hold players accountable for making mistakes and not being prepared or executing poorly. At least show SOME emotion for Godsakes.

With Nurk out we couldn't afford an injury to Collins. We'd be fine right now if he was healthy.

 

[hoopsjock]

It's literally running 3 more minutes a day. That's not going to kill you. Over the course of 82 games and 6 months it's like running 2 extra hours TOTAL. Now I get that it's 2 hours of extra time where they can get into a freak accident, but for conditioning....these guys are professional athletes. And from everything I've seen Dame and CJ are guys that take nutrition and health very seriously. They aren't Dwight Howard eating candy bars every day, or Raymond Felton binging on donuts. As long as they avoid a freak accident I really don't think they will be more tired come April playing 38MPG vs 35MPG or 32 MPG.

someone asked Stotts if he was concerned with Dame and CJs minutes so far this season. He said no. Blazers did a study on guys in the past that averaged 38+ mpg and found no discernible difference in those players wearing down sooner. In all honesty I’m more inclined to agree with him. This whole minute managing thing hasn’t really come up until the last few years, and while I understand it to an extend for guys with lingering injury issues, Dame has been relatively injury free his entire career. LeBron has more miles on those legs than anyone in the league and he’s still out here at age 34 as an MVP candidate. And he’s just one example. If you look at guys before this decade you’ll see most of them have seasons where they push 38-39mpg and are fine.

How many minutes would you like Dame to play? If we reduce his minutes are you ok with us losing more games? Yes is an acceptable answer, I'm just curious if that's where you are at with this season.

Have you guys played basketball either in high school or college? Your legs get tired as the season goes on and they start to feel dead after awhile no matter how conditioned you are. That's only 1/3 of the NBA season. It absolutely wears on guys to play heavy minutes.

Are we not remembering Dame getting worn out at certain points during the season and in the playoffs every year?

Plus those extra 3 minutes means he's fresher during each game at the end. Take tonight for example, they built an 11 point lead in the 1st quarter. Stotts could've taken Dame out with 4 or 5 minutes left in the 1st and then if the team is sucking you can put him back in. But he left both Dame and CJ in tonight and they blew the lead so what was the point of keeping them out there? I realize Dame sat much of the 2nd so it's basically the same thing but I think the early you can sneak minutes for him the better it could turn out later on. If he comes out in the 3rd quarter maybe some games the team would build or maintain a lead so he might not even have to go back in or when he does he doesn't need to exert so much energy trying to carry a whole franchise on his back. Of course most games he will still have to because our team sucks right now but if he rested 8 minutes in the first half and came out around 3 minutes left in the 3rd then every once in awhile his minutes would be in the low to mid 20's.

 

[stampedehero]

Well, that proves it. We are worse than the Kings. Herzonja scores 2 and Bazemore 8 , I think. The bench contributes 17 among the five Terry used. What the team needs is a better output from the benchmen. I am not used to this mediocrity. We are only a few steps away from "Knicks" status for seasonal impotence.

 

[BonesJones]

I think it's a skewed post because nights when a trash roster shoots lights out from 3 is not always because of coaching and we've seen that happen...also not being able to make a shot or free throw isn't on coaching either...it's all about execution

Dont see what you said that makes my post "skewed".