Game Thread GAME# 27: BLAZERS @ SUNS - DECEMBER 16, 2019 - MONDAY, 6:00 PM, NBCSNW

[BonesJones]

The poll question wasn't is tanking a realistic goal, but rather if it's time to tank.

The good news for the tanking crowd is that, if they've been trying to win, it doesn't seem to matter. They may not end up with a top 5 pick but top 10 looks totally doable, there are only a few teams out there right now who I'd say they "should beat" if they continue playing this way.

8th is the best we could do without some luck. Look at 8th overall picks from 2007 to now. Yikes.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

8th is the best we could do without some luck. Look at 8th overall picks from 2007 to now. Yikes.

Only two teams in the west their “better than” right now there is gonna be a good battle for 5-10, they’re not playing much better than most of the teams around them. Out west, NO, GS, out East Atl, Cle, and NY. Whats fun is theyve already lost to Cle and GS. I know they’re trying to win, but doesnt seem totally out there that they could finish anywhere from 5-10 unless they figure out stuff.

 

[BonesJones]

Question: Do you guys think Phoenix currently has a better roster than us? I don't.

 

[BonesJones]

Here's what baffles me:
There's some Blazer fans that said we had the roster to contend at the start of the season, but then said we had a sub-500 roster even before we lost Hood.
So in their mind, we went from contenders to sub .500 record by simply downgrading Zach to Melo?

I don't think we have a sub .500 roster.

 

[BonesJones]

Only two teams in the west their “better than” right now there is gonna be a good battle for 5-10, they’re not playing much better than most of the teams around them. Out west, NO, GS, out East Atl, Cle, and NY. Whats fun is theyve already lost to Cle and GS. I know they’re trying to win, but doesnt seem totally out there that they could finish anywhere from 5-10 unless they figure out stuff.

I see no way we finish worse than Memphis or Chicago.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Here's what baffles me:
There's some Blazer fans that said we had the roster to contend at the start of the season, but then said we had a sub-500 roster even before we lost Hood.
So in their mind, we went from contenders to sub .500 record by simply downgrading Zach to Melo?

I don't think we have a sub .500 roster.

So... I don't know if I thought they were going to win a championship this year unless Nurk came back and could get close to what he was last year (which I doubt), but I thought the roster was better.
I thought Gasol would play.
I thought Zach + Whiteside would be awesome defensively once they figured each other out.
I was dissapointed they brought in no backup PG's, Simons appears not ready.
I thought Hood was better than Harkless (I still do).
I thought Bazemore would really fit in with Stotts systems, and his shooting percentages would climb getting "better" looks.

Then what happened.
Gasol - The rehab apparently didn't go as planned.
Zach + Whiteside never got a chance to figure things out.
Simons isn't ready. - Still no backup PG and Dame's going to exhaust himself if he hasn't already.
Hood's Injured.
Bazemore is maybe a slight upgrade from ET, but not nearly as good as I had hoped.

Oh Tolliver and Hezonja are awful, and they don't have a single bench player as good as Seth was for the second half of last year.

Skal's been ok off the bench but his defense isn't very good.
Little's my favorite young player on the team right now that's healthy.

Also I'd rather have a healthy Zach then Melo.

So after all that I thought originally they had a playoff team, now I'm thinking they pretty much suck... As much as I love Dame it is incredibly rare that a small PG can carry a team).

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I see no way we finish worse than Memphis or Chicago.

Morant is gonna figure it out more and more and more as the season goes. Chicago I'm not sure they do get the benefit of playing in the east.

 

[BonesJones]

So... I don't know if I thought they were going to win a championship this year unless Nurk came back and could get close to what he was last year (which I doubt), but I thought the roster was better.
I thought Gasol would play.
I thought Zach + Whiteside would be awesome defensively once they figured each other out.
I was dissapointed they brought in no backup PG's, Simons appears not ready.
I thought Hood was better than Harkless (I still do).
I thought Bazemore would really fit in with Stotts systems, and his shooting percentages would climb getting "better" looks.

Then what happened.
Gasol - The rehab apparently didn't go as planned.
Zach + Whiteside never got a chance to figure things out.
Simons isn't ready. - Still no backup PG and Dame's going to exhaust himself if he hasn't already.
Hood's Injured.
Bazemore is maybe a slight upgrade from ET, but not nearly as good as I had hoped.

Oh Tolliver and Hezonja are awful, and they don't have a single bench player as good as Seth was for the second half of last year.

Skal's been ok off the bench but his defense isn't very good.
Little's my favorite young player on the team right now that's healthy.

Also I'd rather have a healthy Zach then Melo.

So after all that I thought originally they had a playoff team, now I'm thinking they pretty much suck... As much as I love Dame it is incredibly rare that a small PG can carry a team).

For me, the 39-year-old wasn't a factor in believing we were a contender or not, and I don't think it should've been.

I agree on Zach + Whiteside.

If you thought they had a solid playoff team at best, and now see them as a sub .500 roster, then that makes sense. Just don't understand the people that saw this roster as a contender that now see it as a sub .500 roster. We lost important pieces, but that's too big of a difference considering who we lost.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

@BonesJones I will say this, I dont think the year is, “over”, I think Dame,CJ and Whiteside are good enough to get some wins, and maybe between coaching and players and a commitment to defense they can turn things around. My... confidence that, that will happen has dropped significantly though.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

For me, the 39-year-old wasn't a factor in believing we were a contender or not, and I don't think it should've been.

I agree on Zach + Whiteside.

If you thought they had a solid playoff team at best, and now see them as a sub .500 roster, then that makes sense. Just don't understand the people that saw this roster as a contender that now see it as a sub .500 roster. We lost important pieces, but that's too big of a difference considering who we lost.

What I was hoping from with Gasol was someone who they could run the offense through on the second unit, IMO no one in the second unit can create their own offense and I think they needed his passing, it probably doesnt make them a contender, but it helps. I think Nurk is vital to them being a contender, and its not to slight WS I think he’s been good, but I think Nurks better

 

[wizenheimer]

8th is the best we could do without some luck. Look at 8th overall picks from 2007 to now. Yikes.

is that 8th seed or 8th pick?

IMO, you can't just gauge it by the 8th pick...you have to look at picks from 8 down to see who was available and what was possible with a good choice

over the last 10 years:

9 Gordon Hayward 10 Paul George 18 Eric Bledsoe 33 Hassan Whiteside

9 Kemba Walker 11 Klay Thompson 15 Kawhi Leonard 16 Nikola Vučević 19 Tobias Harris 23 Nikola Mirotić 30 Jimmy Butler 31 Bojan Bogdanović

9 Andre Drummond 34 Jae Crowder 35 Draymond Green

10 CJ McCollum 12 Steven Adams 15 Giannis Antetokounmpo 27 Rudy Gobert

13 Zach LaVine 16 Jusuf Nurkić 19 Gary Harris 25 Clint Capela 27 Bogdan Bogdanović 39 Jerami Grant 41 Nikola Jokić

11 Myles Turner 13 Devin Booker 15 Kelly Oubre 32 Montrezl Harrell 40 Josh Richardson

11 Domantas Sabonis 27 Pascal Siakam 36 Malcolm Brogdon

10 Zach Collins 13 Donovan Mitchell 14 Bam Adebayo 19 John Collins 22 Jarrett Allen 27 Kyle Kuzma 30 Josh Hart

8 Collin Sexton 9 Kevin Knox 11 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 24 Anfernee Simons 34 Devonte' Graham

sure....there are lot more low-level role players and busts than starters and stars, but the draft has a crap-shoot nature in the best of times

that said, a team with Dame is going to do a poor job of tanking, and the hoped-for payoff with a tank job isn't going to do much for Dame's prime years

 

[BonesJones]

is that 8th seed or 8th pick?

IMO, you can't just gauge it by the 8th pick...you have to look at picks from 8 down to see who was available and what was possible with a good choice

over the last 10 years:

9 Gordon Hayward 10 Paul George 18 Eric Bledsoe 33 Hassan Whiteside

9 Kemba Walker 11 Klay Thompson 15 Kawhi Leonard 16 Nikola Vučević 19 Tobias Harris 23 Nikola Mirotić 30 Jimmy Butler 31 Bojan Bogdanović

9 Andre Drummond 34 Jae Crowder 35 Draymond Green

10 CJ McCollum 12 Steven Adams 15 Giannis Antetokounmpo 27 Rudy Gobert

13 Zach LaVine 16 Jusuf Nurkić 19 Gary Harris 25 Clint Capela 27 Bogdan Bogdanović 39 Jerami Grant 41 Nikola Jokić

11 Myles Turner 13 Devin Booker 15 Kelly Oubre 32 Montrezl Harrell 40 Josh Richardson

11 Domantas Sabonis 27 Pascal Siakam 36 Malcolm Brogdon

10 Zach Collins 13 Donovan Mitchell 14 Bam Adebayo 19 John Collins 22 Jarrett Allen 27 Kyle Kuzma 30 Josh Hart

8 Collin Sexton 9 Kevin Knox 11 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 24 Anfernee Simons 34 Devonte' Graham

sure....there are lot more low-level role players and busts than starters and stars, but the draft has a crap-shoot nature in the best of times

that said, a team with Dame is going to do a poor job of tanking, and the hoped-for payoff with a tank job isn't going to do much for Dame's prime years

8th pick. Yeah, theres always good players available at 8, but that just show how its a crap shoot even though its only the 8th pick.

 

[BonesJones]

@BonesJones I will say this, I dont think the year is, “over”, I think Dame,CJ and Whiteside are good enough to get some wins, and maybe between coaching and players and a commitment to defense they can turn things around. My... confidence that, that will happen has dropped significantly though.

Agreed.

 

[wizenheimer]

Question: Do you guys think Phoenix currently has a better roster than us? I don't.

Dame > Rubio
Booker > CJ
Oubre > Bazemore
Saric >= Melo (close)
Whiteside > Kaminsky/Baynes

Phx bench > Port bench

Monty Williams vs Stotts?

Portland is a little better because they have Dame; That trumps anything the Suns bring to the floor (although Booker is pretty good) and Whiteside is the best big man on the two teams

 

[BonesJones]

Dame > Rubio
Booker > CJ
Oubre > Bazemore
Saric >= Melo (close)
Whiteside > Kaminsky/Baynes

Phx bench > Port bench

Monty Williams vs Stotts?

Portland is a little better because they have Dame; That trumps anything the Suns bring to the floor (although Booker is pretty good) and Whiteside is the best big man on the two teams

If you analyze it like that, it makes the difference between Oubre and Bazemore the same as the difference between Dame and Rubio.

I like to compare the 1st best players, 2nd best players, etc.

But yeah, I think were better.

 

[wizenheimer]

8th pick. Yeah, theres always good players available at 8, but that just show how its a crap shoot even though its only the 8th pick.

LaRue Martin...Sam Bowie....Greg Oden....shit, for Portland the #1 pick is a crap shoot

 

[wizenheimer]

If you analyze it like that, it makes the difference between Oubre and Bazemore the same as the difference between Dame and Rubio.

I like to compare the 1st best players, 2nd best players, etc.

But yeah, I think were better.

sure that works, maybe better, as long as it's a like for like. It would be valid to say Dame > Booker. But if you did Booker > Whiteside there's too much of a positional difference. Maybe do perimeter vs interior

or maybe go by duos? Lebron + AD vs Dame + CJ....yikes! Kawhi + PG13....Giannis + Middleton....Doncic + Porzingas....Harden + Westbrook....Simmons + Embiid....Kemba + Tatum....Siakam + Van Vleet/Lowry. I don't know that Dame + CJ is better than any of those duos, but they are probably better than Booker + Oubre

 

[BonesJones]

sure that works, maybe better, as long as it's a like for like. It would be valid to say Dame > Booker. But if you did Booker > Whiteside there's too much of a positional difference. Maybe do perimeter vs interior

or maybe go by duos? Lebron + AD vs Dame + CJ....yikes! Kawhi + PG13....Giannis + Middleton....Doncic + Porzingas....Harden + Westbrook....Simmons + Embiid....Kemba + Tatum....Siakam + Van Vleet/Lowry. I don't know that Dame + CJ is better than any of those duos, but they are probably better than Booker + Oubre

Impact on team is impact on team regardless of position. Why does it have to be positional?

 

[Labinot41]

Wow Booker is shooting 50% FG%, 40% 3PT% and 90% FT% while he's the main target of opponents defense. It's crazy how efficient he is even though he seeing a lot of double teams

 

[hoopsjock]

Wow Booker is shooting 50% FG%, 40% 3PT% and 90% FT% while he's the main target of opponents defense. It's crazy how efficient he is even though he seeing a lot of double teams

Yeah, if only the Blazers had him instead of Dame. LMAO

 

[Labinot41]

Yeah, if only the Blazers had him instead of Dame. LMAO

what exactly does lillard have to do with my post about booker??

 

[hoopsjock]

what exactly does lillard have to do with my post about booker??

You're a Dame hater and are praising another team's player. In before you say "if only Dame shot like that"

 

[SIeepwalker]

Here's what baffles me:
There's some Blazer fans that said we had the roster to contend at the start of the season, but then said we had a sub-500 roster even before we lost Hood.
So in their mind, we went from contenders to sub .500 record by simply downgrading Zach to Melo?

I don't think we have a sub .500 roster.

We're don't. we have a sub .250 system though

 

[Labinot41]

You're a Dame hater and are praising another team's player. In before you say "if only Dame shot like that"

I think you're paranoid or something like that. Yeah of course i hate my favourite player. Homer clowns like you and Bones just cant accept any criticism on Dame, no matter how bad he plays you always come with excuses. Cj gets bashed here every time when he plays bad, have the same energy on Lillard

 

[kjironman1]

Homer clowns like you and Bones just cant accept any criticism on Dame

Oh boy.... That's gonna go over well.
Homers you say? Sure they follow the team as well as anyone. But i guess you missed the definition of "Clowns".
They also seem to have a pretty clear a decisive idea on what they want changed.
Your posts are a bit less direct and on this subject i would have to agree that you seem a bit tougher on Damian Lillard than most. Now i can't argue against some of the things you bring up. Dame does go hero a bit much. But again this is probably due to situational issues. My opinion would direct that at personnel and chemistry. Some direct those same issues at the coaching. You seem to direct it more toward player inadequacies. Maybe it's more a composite of all three?

 

[tlongII]

Here's what baffles me:
There's some Blazer fans that said we had the roster to contend at the start of the season, but then said we had a sub-500 roster even before we lost Hood.
So in their mind, we went from contenders to sub .500 record by simply downgrading Zach to Melo?

I don't think we have a sub .500 roster.

We could make the playoffs with Zach. At that point we’d have Nurk and we’d be in the hunt. Without Zach, without Hoodie, without an expected contribution from Pau...we suck.

 

[kjironman1]

We could make the playoffs with Zach. At that point we’d have Nurk and we’d be in the hunt. Without Zach, without Hoodie, without an expected contribution from Pau...we suck.

Well tomorrow marks a day when some things could change. Lets see where they end up. This season is just starting to get interesting. Maybe they don't do much this year? But they could set themselves up nicely on how things go into next year.

 

[hoopsjock]

I think you're paranoid or something like that. Yeah of course i hate my favourite player. Homer clowns like you and Bones just cant accept any criticism on Dame, no matter how bad he plays you always come with excuses. Cj gets bashed here every time when he plays bad, have the same energy on Lillard

Yeah because comments like this are just criticism:

Typical Dame, he talks a lot on social Media, but i haven't seen him prove his talk on the court

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[BigGameDamian]