Game Thread Game #3:TRAIL BLAZERS @ LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS OCTOBER 25, 2021 - MONDAY, 7:30 PM, ROOT SPORTS, NBATV (2 Viewers)

[Titan]

It might help for Zeller to stop using his face has a shield.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I wonder if some sportswriter was being clever when he asked about a hangover from the Saturday game? All I am going to say is that I lived in Eastern Europe for 8 years and that I saw that at least one of our players had very slow reaction time yesterday.

 

[Tince]

If you don't move the defense your going have to make tuff passes. Player's just can't stand in one spot and have the move around the arc your not accomplished a damn thing. You move the defense by players also moving while the ball moves.

I agree player movement would put pressure on a defense. Also, find ways to create an advantage, forcing the defense to help/rotate is basically the #1 goal, and I'm not sure our current ball movement is leading to that.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yall shoulda rolled with my thread and we woulda won…

#fingerpointingrocks!

 

[illmatic99]

In my eyes, that is exactly how learning process looks like.

(Little c/o here: some of you, guys, were telling me, that you don't get my parallels. It appeared I'm in the process of diagnosing asparger. So.. They say I may see things differently)

To the point. When you learn riding a bike, on the begining you fall. At that point you will be slower from A to B, than your friend walking.

When you try to walk after stroke, you will be struggling a lot. You can go thru the struggles or give up after three sessions (like Stotts and Lillars did last season).

If you want to talk to Japanese people you can learn Japanese or just stick to you English.

It is learning process, that, after all, will result with much better outcome.

I believe Blazers are just there.

Exactly. People like @Tince act intentionally obtuse because they irrationally love Terry. What we had before was not working so the new staff is trying to implement new approaches and address the obvious things to improve upon: predictability, lack of ball movement, ease of shot attempts, etc.

For example, playing more through Nurk doesn't mean just handing him the ball to let him go to work in the post-- it means putting him in the high post and cutting off him, or using him as an off ball screener to open up shooters, etc etc. And these failed attempts now are not solely on Nurk-- it's on guys to cut hard, and shooters to recognize when to move where, and the like. People like to simplify stuff to criticize because they have a narrative to push. Hopefully this mindset doesn't permeate with the team and they stick with it.

The last like 5 yrs we've been among the leaders in contested shots attempted. We make them at a decent clip in the regular season and win 45-50 games. However, even the most staunch Stotts supporter can (won't but should) admit that this is hardly sustainable in the playoffs. Building from scratch takes time. And when it doesn't work, it looks bad like last night. And the dropped passes and careless turnovers just makes it look worse. The key this regular season is attrition-- how much patience do we have to keep trying these new schemes? If you use some of the fans here as a barometer, it's not much.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Exactly. People like @Tince act intentionally obtuse because they irrationally love Terry. What we had before was not working so the new staff is trying to implement new approaches and address the obvious things to improve upon: predictability, lack of ball movement, ease of shot attempts, etc.

For example, playing more through Nurk doesn't mean just handing him the ball to let him go to work in the post-- it means putting him in the high post and cutting off him, or using him as an off ball screener to open up shooters, etc etc. And these failed attempts now are not solely on Nurk-- it's on guys to cut hard, and shooters to recognize when to move where, and the like. People like to simplify stuff to criticize because they have a narrative to push. Hopefully this mindset doesn't permeate with the team and they stick with it.

The last like 5 yrs we've been among the leaders in contested shots attempted. We make them at a decent clip in the regular season and win 45-50 games. However, even the most staunch Stotts supporter can (won't but should) admit that this is hardly sustainable in the playoffs. Building from scratch takes time. And when it doesn't work, it looks bad like last night. And the dropped passes and careless turnovers just makes it look worse. The key this regular season is attrition-- how much patience do we have to keep trying these new schemes? If you use some of the fans here as a barometer, it's not much.

great post!

 

[Tince]

Exactly. People like @Tince act intentionally obtuse because they irrationally love Terry. What we had before was not working so the new staff is trying to implement new approaches and address the obvious things to improve upon: predictability, lack of ball movement, ease of shot attempts, etc.

For example, playing more through Nurk doesn't mean just handing him the ball to let him go to work in the post-- it means putting him in the high post and cutting off him, or using him as an off ball screen setter to open up shooters, etc etc. People like to simplify stuff to criticize because they have a narrative to push.

The last like 5 yrs we've been among the leaders in contested shots attempted. We make them at a decent clip in the regular season and win 45-50 games. However, even the most staunch supporter can (won't but should) admit that this is hardly sustainable in the playoffs. Building from new takes time. And when it doesn't work, it looks bad like last night. And the dropped passes and careless turnovers just makes it look worse. The key this regular season is attrition-- how much patience do we have to keep trying these new schemes? If you use some of the fans here as a barometer, it's not much.

I disagree with your assessment of me and I know you're incorrect about my feelings towards any previous coach we've had.

We'll have a whole year to find out if the issues last year were roster related and we notice a big improvement in wins/playoff success from the past 5 years. I'm still feeling confident this isn't a contending team and I think Billups is more than a fine coach, I like him, and will eventually be called an apologist of him in a couple years.

The changes we're making shouldn't take years, or even months to implement, and since we ran it back (with a slightly more versitile bench), this will be a good test on what the core issue is. I truly hope you're correct that this is a fantastic roster that can be fixed by someone with a dry erase pen.

If anyone wants to bet we're getting out of the 2nd round, please let me know.

 

[illmatic99]

I disagree with your assessment of me and I know you're incorrect about my feelings towards any previous coach we've had.

We'll have a whole year to find out if the issues last year were roster related and we notice a big improvement in wins/playoff success from the past 5 years. I'm still feeling confident this isn't a contending team and I think Billups is more than a fine coach, I like him, and will eventually be called an apologist of him in a couple years.

The changes we're making shouldn't take years, or even months to implement, and since we ran it back (with a slightly more versitile bench), this will be a good test on what the core issue is. I truly hope you're correct that this is a fantastic roster that can be fixed by someone with a dry erase pen.

lol sure

 

[James lamphear]

Another problem is there no rim protection. I seen Nance one time try to to protect. Nurk hell I don't know what he'll that guy was doing on defense he look lost.

 

[wizenheimer]

If you listened to Chauncey's post game presser, he's going to make sure Dame starts playing like Dame going forward. He said it was always his intention for Dame to control the game and sometimes CJ but that Dame is such a good teammate that he's been trying to get other guys going too much and that he needs to start looking to get himself going first... or something like that.

in other words, he's re-thinking his 'run-Dame-off-the-ball' offensive plan of the off-season. Good for Billups to see something isn't working (although Stotts got trashed for going away from his off-season defensive plan last year)

to be fair, Dame being 2-24 on three's isn't explained away by any offensive scheme. That's just a shooter in the middle of a career-worst slump. But most of the time, Dame just hasn't looked as engaged or as in sync as he normally is.

Last year, his assisted FG rate was 28%; this season, so far, it's 17% this season

these are Dame's assisted FG rates over his career:

2012-13 34%
2013-14 40%
2014-15 33%
2015-16 30%
2016-17 31%
2017-18 27%
2018-19 28%
2019-20 18%
2020-21 28%
2021-22 17%

notice how the highest rates are in Dame's first 3 seasons. Well, those were the seasons he was playing with Batum. He was playing with a pass-first facilitator who he wasn't alternating substitutions with like CJ. Evan Turner could pass, but not nearly as well as Batum, and Dame just had a poor mesh with Turner.

IMO, the Billups plan of running off-ball action for Dame falls apart because Portland has no player that can consistently find Dame in good scoring positions. The Blazers haven't had anybody like that since Batum, and that's mainly because of Olshey's infatuation with CJ and Simons, two players who look for their own offense first, and create for others as an afterthought, and don't do that very well. I think Billups had a theory that didn't fit his roster. So it will probably go back to an offense, at least as far as Dame is concerned, resembling the offense Stotts ran. That being Dame in charge, not some scheme

 

[DDolla]

LOL

 

[wizenheimer]

LOL

already working on his "it's not the roster" excuse. Watch your back Chauncey!

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Stotts got the same gift when he replaced Nate; it'll wear off eventually. Billups, nor Stotts should have to take the blame for it.

I don't remember it that way. The team was coached by Canales and then they made a number of changes.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

After this game the Blazers improved from #19 in defense to #18. Pretty impressive as I thought they didn't play well and have a hell of a lot of potential to improve defensively.

They did slide back from the #1 offense to #17 though.....

 

[Blazinaway]

a bit mind boggling that could look so good against the Suns and so unbelievably awful against the Clips

 

[wizenheimer]

After this game the Blazers improved from #19 in defense to #18. Pretty impressive as I thought they didn't play well and have a hell of a lot of potential to improve defensively.

They did slide back from the #1 offense to #17 though.....

I know you know this so it's not me enlightening you....but when a team can go from #1 to #17 in one game it demonstrates the sample size issues for all those kind of stats.

I think you have to wait till at least the 30 game mark before those numbers reveal anything very relevant. And in Portland's case it may have to be the 50 game mark because at 30 games the Blazers will have an 18-12 home/road imbalance and at 40 games, that imbalance jumps up to 25-15.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I know you know this so it's not me enlightening you....but when a team can go from #1 to #17 in one game it demonstrates the sample size issues for all those kind of stats.

I think you have to wait till at least the 30 game mark before those numbers reveal anything very relevant. And in Portland's case it may have to be the 50 game mark because at 30 games the Blazers will have an 18-12 home/road imbalance and at 40 games, that imbalance jumps up to 25-15.

but yet you keep railing on cj with a three game sample size with a new coach?

not following the consistency here

 

[wizenheimer]

but yet you keep railing on cj with a three game sample size with a new coach?

not following the consistency here

c'mon man...do I have to add a fucking asterisk to every one of my posts to please you? Of course sample sizes are tiny. Everybody knows that and shouldn't have to add the wiggle words into every post discussing numbers. I'm not the only one mentioning stats 3 games in

everybody is talking about Dame missing 22 three's in the first 3 games. That's 7.3 misses a game. Last year, he missed 6.4 three's a game. So far, he's shooting 2.5 fewer three's than last year, 3.2 fewer FGA's, and 1.9 fewer FT's. BUT IT"S EARLY!!....does that make you happy?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Anyone know Paul George's record against Lillard ever since the "wave goodbye" game? I think he bears a little bit of a grudge...

 

[Orion Bailey]

c'mon man...do I have to add a fucking asterisk to every one of my posts to please you? Of course sample sizes are tiny. Everybody knows that and shouldn't have to add the wiggle words into every post discussing numbers. I'm not the only one mentioning stats 3 games in

everybody is talking about Dame missing 22 three's in the first 3 games. That's 7.3 misses a game. Last year, he missed 6.4 three's a game. So far, he's shooting 2.5 fewer three's than last year, 3.2 fewer FGA's, and 1.9 fewer FT's. BUT IT"S EARLY!!....does that make you happy?

just sayin that old numbers should have an asterisk until we see a good sample size with the new coach.
It seems like you are writing off any potential ability to change/improve based on three games.

 

[Hoopguru]

Dame Lillard is a pg he shouldnt have to average 30 ppg on this roster. If he and/or CJ dominate all the shooting, this team will continue to be mediocre.
We should get at least 25 or more ppg, per night, from the two starting forward positions.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I know you know this so it's not me enlightening you....but when a team can go from #1 to #17 in one game it demonstrates the sample size issues for all those kind of stats.

I think you have to wait till at least the 30 game mark before those numbers reveal anything very relevant. And in Portland's case it may have to be the 50 game mark because at 30 games the Blazers will have an 18-12 home/road imbalance and at 40 games, that imbalance jumps up to 25-15.

The stats are very relevant in reveling the teams performance over the entire season thus far, however few games that is.

Would 82 games give a more accurate representation of a teams performance? Sure. But that doesn't mean we can't look at smaller sample sizes. Yes we will know more tomorrow, but that doesn't mean we know nothing today.

A complete playoff series has a sample size of 4-7 games.
Each win and loss is determined by a sample size of one game.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Anyone know Paul George's record against Lillard ever since the "wave goodbye" game? I think he bears a little bit of a grudge...

I think he is 10-0 or something.... they showed it on NBATV yesterday he has one of his highest scoring averages against a single team as the Blazers. I think Lillard and or CJ had poor averages against the Clippers.

 

[THE HCP]

If you use some of the fans here as a barometer, it's not much.

Curious if we were undefeated in the preseason and 2-1 right now..... what would you think the barometric pressure of the forum might be? Honest question.

 

[julius]

I think he is 10-0 or something.... they showed it on NBATV yesterday he has one of his highest scoring averages against a single team as the Blazers. I think Lillard and or CJ had poor averages against the Clippers.

Can't be 10-0. It's only been 2 seasons (total of 6 games he's played in before this year).

He is 7-0 tho.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Curious if we were undefeated in the preseason and 2-1 right now..... what would you think the barometric pressure of the forum might be? Honest question.

Get ready for “Its not that they lose it’s how they lose” post coming right up.

 

[wizenheimer]

just sayin that old numbers should have an asterisk until we see a good sample size with the new coach.
It seems like you are writing off any potential ability to change/improve based on three games.

nope, I'm not writing off anything based upon the three games Billups has coached....I'm just skeptical of CJ changing based upon the 590 games he's played.

I am kind of amazed at how many people are imagining that a 1st time head coach, who actually has less than a year of coaching experience, on any level, possesses some metaphysical/magical powers that will transform the established games of veteran players almost instantly

it appears that Stotts had such a toxic reputation in the minds of so many fans (I wanted him gone myself) that he's getting no credit at all for the offensive games of players like Dame and CJ. It is possible that he actually knew what he was doing on the offensive end. I mean, everything Dame has acheived so far he did under Stotts

 

[Orion Bailey]

nope, I'm not writing off anything based upon the three games Billups has coached....I'm just skeptical of CJ changing based upon the 590 games he's played.

I am kind of amazed at how many people are imagining that a 1st time head coach, who actually has less than a year of coaching experience, on any level, possesses some metaphysical/magical powers that will transform the established games of veteran players almost instantly

it appears that Stotts had such a toxic reputation in the minds of so many fans (I wanted him gone myself) that he's getting no credit at all for the offensive games of players like Dame and CJ. It is possible that he actually knew what he was doing on the offensive end. I mean, everything Dame has acheived so far he did under Stotts

Sometimes change invokes change.

Does it take coaching experience to draw a line and hold people accountable? That, to me, is more of a personality trait. Not gained through coaching experience. so I'm not sure his 1st time coaching hold up is valid here.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

I've been in the majority of threads for a long time and I've watched all the games.

I asked a question about how Nurk is being used, you didn't answer it at all, and pointed out that Dame is shooting poorly, which I believe we all agree on. I did not mean to upset you. If you don't want to talk about Nurk for whatever reason, that's fine.

Had Dame gone 8-8 from 3, that still doesn't make up the 30 point difference, so this isn't just Dame.

If Dame went 8/8, we would’ve won going away. Defense would’ve been better cuz Clippers have to take ball out of net. Offensively, it would’ve had the Clippers scrambling for help. Also we wouldn’t have played the scrubs in the 4th. This loss was solely on Dame in my opinion.

 

[Orion Bailey]

If Dame went 8/8, we would’ve won going away. Defense would’ve been better cuz Clippers have to take ball out of net. Offensively, it would’ve had the Clippers scrambling for help. Also we wouldn’t have played the scrubs in the 4th. This loss was solely on Dame in my opinion.

Dame hater.