Game Thread Game #5 May 6 :Sens vs Rangers

[RangersFan]

Agreed 717. Hank has had a great career, but he has also let up a lot of questionable goals in big spots. Again, look at his playoff OT record, it is awful.

Sure some of that is on the D, and lord knows we have put a ton of pressure on him since we have struggled to score in the playoffs since we started this run in the 2012 playoffs, but results are results.

Great goalie. All-time goalie I think. Maybe our best goalie ever. Should be a HOF goalie with a couple of more very good seasons. But he has had some questionable big game moments in big spots. BUT you do need to factor in he played with almost no margin for error with this terrible O for many playoffs. Tough stuff.

 

[Messiah717]

Personally I look at it this way. The Rangers are my payment for being a Yankees and Giants fan. You like those World Series and Super Bowls? Well deal with this.

 

[RangersFan]

I am a Mets fan, so I don't have much there. But I do have the Giants at least. But this Ranger thing is so damn frustrating to be trailing this team.

In 2012 yes we should have beat the Devs, but I was not crazy upset after that series. We hadn't done a thing in the playoffs in forever, so an ECF run for a team on the upswing was great.

In 2013 we struggled and were up and down. To win a round and fall in the 2nd was about right that year.

2014 we made the SCF. The Kings were the better team. Darn frustrating to lose how we lost, all those OT games, but we were the clear underdogs in that series. No shame that year.

2015 rivals this year if we lose to the Sens. To get beat by TB after winning the Pres trophy, winning game 1 of that series, winning game 4 to even it up, only to lay a massive egg in game 5, to follow that up with an awesome game 6, and then lay another massive egg in game 7 was a HUGE downer. Rivals this year, and maybe worse because that was the ECF and we were the best team that season.

2016 no shame at all I don't think. Pens were much better and red hot, we never had any real shot to win that series.

2017 maybe a surprise win over the Habs. So one could argue good to even make round 2 against Ottawa, but since we did I will admit to me this would be a crushing blow. I truthfully never saw us having a shot to lose this series. I think the play has shown that. We have no business being down 3-2 in this series. We have led or been tied for all but 10 minutes or so in the whole series through hundreds of minutes. That is why I am taking this one hard. No way should we lose to this Sens team. Really an epic fail I think, and neck and neck with the TB loss in 2015 in terms of biggest downers/kick in the balls during this 6 year run. Also feels like the end of an era if we lose. Double kick.

Not going to happen, but to lose this series to this team should put AV on the hot seat. This really would be a very bad series loss by the Rangers. Almost inventing ways to lose games we should win. Bad look all around.

 

[Messiah717]

I completely agree with this. He has had a great NHL career and the best ranger goalie of all time but he implodes with the rest of the team in the big moments. I dont think the guy is a mentally strong. He has also thrown many tantrums throughout his career like a little baby which can be also distracting to the team.

Agreed 717. Hank has had a great career, but he has also let up a lot of questionable goals in big spots. Again, look at his playoff OT record, it is awful.

Sure some of that is on the D, and lord knows we have put a ton of pressure on him since we have struggled to score in the playoffs since we started this run in the 2012 playoffs, but results are results.

Great goalie. All-time goalie I think. Maybe our best goalie ever. Should be a HOF goalie with a couple of more very good seasons. But he has had some questionable big game moments in big spots. BUT you do need to factor in he played with almost no margin for error with this terrible O for many playoffs. Tough stuff.

I've enjoyed watching him play and I appreciate where he has taken this organization. His team records, gold medal and everything he has done are well deserved and he has been a great goalie. He has stood on his head in the playoffs as well. I mean they did have a 3-1 lead in game two against the Kings in that series. If you want to win a cup you have to shut that down. In this city the best I can compare it to is Patrick Ewing. Finally got the chance in 1994 and while there's no shame in Hakeem Olajuwon outplaying you. Ewing really didn't have a very good finals.

 

[RangersFan]

Ewing and Hank is an interesting comparison. I kind of feel like Hank had a better career, and more team success, and also I think he came up bigger in big spots, but it is a pretty similar situation.

Being a Knick and Ranger fan it is tough to see neither of those guys get that ring.

 

[Ranger71]

Personally I look at it this way. The Rangers are my payment for being a Yankees and Giants fan. You like those World Series and Super Bowls? Well deal with this.

What about if you're an Oriole or Chief fan?

 

[Messiah717]

Ewing and Hank is an interesting comparison. I kind of feel like Hank had a better career, and more team success, and also I think he came up bigger in big spots, but it is a pretty similar situation.

Being a Knick and Ranger fan it is tough to see neither of those guys get that ring.

Also, was tough seeing the Knicks get eliminated on a missed Ewing finger roll against Indiana. I think the Knicks best team in that stretch was the one which got screwed with the suspensions from the Miami heat brawl. Ewing would've gotten a very good final chance at the big one. The run where he got hurt on the way to San Antonio was a miracle if anything. That said I would like to see Hank get that final shot so I'll remain hopeful that they can at least make a huge turn around and win this thing.

 

[Messiah717]

What about if you're an Oriole or Chief fan?

It's a bit rough lol.

 

[RangersFan]

Shots don't always tell the story, but the Caps have outshot the Pens by 59, and have outshot them in every game.

We have outshot the Sens by 12, and have outshot them in 3 of 5 games. And we have led or been tied pretty much the whole series. Multiple 2 goal leads, Ottawa has never led by 2 goals, and barely led in the series.

You could make the case, and it would be a good case, that the better teams in each series thus far are trailing 3-2.

 

[NYR2009]

This was the toughest loss in the recent past. I totally cannot do anything after this game. I think I am taking it harder than LA loss in SCF in 2014. After MTL loss I thought okay, things happen and we were due to such a loss especially after great record late in the games during Torts' years. Even after Game 2 loss in this series, I though okay as hard as that is we are still a better team, maybe we can beat them. You have that hope. But this one is tough.

Stepan's and Lundqvist fight tells the story. Hank is frustrated and I am pretty sure Stepan is gone after this year and he should be. 6.5M you have to win a fucking face-off.

I am done with Stall. I don't care if he scores 5 goals in the next game. Please get him out of here. I can't stand watching him play anymore. Please buy him out. And AV should be fired and that goes without saying. Looks like Sutter is waiting for playoffs to finish before he makes his decision. Please, Please Gorton get Sutter. I am sure he wants to come to NY.

 

[Ranger71]

Staal gets rolled around like an electronic parking sign.

 

[Messiah717]

I have no interest in Sutter here. He walked into a nice situation in Los Angeles and that's all anyone wants to see.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Yea fuck Sutter. They barely made it into the playoffs when they won

 

[Ranger71]

I'd be shocked if Vig isn't here at least through next year. If they don't get too far next year then I'd say start considering a change. We're 2 min and a few bounces from the ECF though i get some of the frustration with some moves.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

I am a Mets fan, so I don't have much there. But I do have the Giants at least. But this Ranger thing is so damn frustrating to be trailing this team.

In 2012 yes we should have beat the Devs, but I was not crazy upset after that series. We hadn't done a thing in the playoffs in forever, so an ECF run for a team on the upswing was great.

In 2013 we struggled and were up and down. To win a round and fall in the 2nd was about right that year.

2014 we made the SCF. The Kings were the better team. Darn frustrating to lose how we lost, all those OT games, but we were the clear underdogs in that series. No shame that year.

2015 rivals this year if we lose to the Sens. To get beat by TB after winning the Pres trophy, winning game 1 of that series, winning game 4 to even it up, only to lay a massive egg in game 5, to follow that up with an awesome game 6, and then lay another massive egg in game 7 was a HUGE downer. Rivals this year, and maybe worse because that was the ECF and we were the best team that season.

2016 no shame at all I don't think. Pens were much better and red hot, we never had any real shot to win that series.

2017 maybe a surprise win over the Habs. So one could argue good to even make round 2 against Ottawa, but since we did I will admit to me this would be a crushing blow. I truthfully never saw us having a shot to lose this series. I think the play has shown that. We have no business being down 3-2 in this series. We have led or been tied for all but 10 minutes or so in the whole series through hundreds of minutes. That is why I am taking this one hard. No way should we lose to this Sens team. Really an epic fail I think, and neck and neck with the TB loss in 2015 in terms of biggest downers/kick in the balls during this 6 year run. Also feels like the end of an era if we lose. Double kick.

Not going to happen, but to lose this series to this team should put AV on the hot seat. This really would be a very bad series loss by the Rangers. Almost inventing ways to lose games we should win. Bad look all around.

That TB would have swept this Ottawa team. I'm sorry but the Sens are not that good.

 

[RangersFan]

You won't get any debate from me, I agree. We have totally controlled every statistical aspect of this series...except the one that matters most...3-2 Ottawa series lead.

I didn't mean the teams rival each other in talent, I meant the pain of the loss as a Ranger fan rival each other. This is worse because Ottawa is a worse team and we are simply the better team. That was worse because it was the ECF, and we were the best team all season that year. Plus expectations were higher in 2015.

Both are/were major downers for sure.

 

[RangersFan]

I agree 71. It won't happen, but I now believe AV should be fired if we lose to this Ottawa team. There is now no doubt in my mind his decisions late, and utter refusal to play the right guys, has killed the team in this series. I have always been in the layoff of AV camp. Team has performed well under him. But now I am fed up with it.

His decision to not play Skjei late in close games is baffling.
In game 2 he shortens the bench, and loses track of Smith as he said. Benches Buch and Lindberg in the late 2nd/3rd/and all of OT.
In game 5 he has Glass on with 1:30 left protecting the lead.
Staal is constantly on ice late when his play simply has not been deserving of that time.

Look at some of the comments today:

It’s clear that Vigneault is at least hesitant — if not downright averse — to giving crucial time to rookie defenseman Brady Skjei while protecting a lead. Skjei didn’t play for the final 5:04 of regulation in Game 5, that after he logged the second-most minutes of any defensemen behind only captain Ryan McDonagh in a huge 4-1 win in Game 3 that turned the tide of this series back in favor of the Blueshirts.

Then from AV himself:

On the defense pairs and Smith and Skjei playing less on Saturday, "last night, we are pretty much rolling four lines and rolling 6 D and when it got down to the end we had Marc Staal, who has a lot of experience, and Smytty who has good experience and Dan and Mac, those are the guys that toward the end we were leaning on more. They were able to make a play that led to a rebound opportunity that went off a couple of bodies and sticks and ended it up in the back of our net and that is the way it is."


To me it is clear the guy doesn't get it late. If we lose to this team we 10000000000000000% should have beaten, I think he needs to go. Won't happen, but I would support it.

His late game decisions have been terrible. From Holden and Staal on late in game 2 at Montreal. To benching players and refusing to play Skjei late in game 2 against Ottawa. To Staal and Glass on late in game 5. To no Skjei late in any of these close games. AV has cost us this series I think.

 

[NYR2009]

100% agree with there Chuck

 

[Ranger71]

Can't really argue too much, as these are awful losses that you should be learning from. If he can't see Staal is the weak link on D then that's extremely shocking.

 

[RangersFan]

What I wonder about is what the F does experience have to do with it if they keep failing in those situations. How many times does Staal need to be on late where we allow a goal before AV says forget the experience...I need results. Never mentions results, but mentions experience a few times...really AV. AV sounds stupid when he says that.

Again, maybe Skjei will fail and isn't ready for that role yet, but I can tell you I'd darn sure give him a shot over Staal at this point. What is the downside considering we have blown THREE late 3rd period leads in 11 playoff games. Come on now AV...F experience.

At this point it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the top 4 dmen should be McDonagh/Girardi and Skjei/Smith. He did it in game 3, and then decided it worked too well, so need to change it up. Wake up AV.

 

[Ranger71]

Heck even Klein would probably be doing better than Staal right now.

 

[panzerporter]

Hank postseason - 61W-64L 2.27 GAA .922 Save %. Too many softies this year. AV's Rangers have given up late period goals since he got here. I've been down on AV since last year, think he's going in the wrong direction. Losing to Ottawa is unacceptable.

 

[mrmel29]

Must keep the faith till they actually lose to Ottawa. I Still have confidence they win games 6 and 7 and move on. If they do lose however wholesale changes are coming.

 

[RangersFan]

This couldn't be a more spot on article from Brooks. Goes exactly to the point above about playing Staal, no Skjei, and AV's ridiculous comments about experience (while never mentioning actual results).

http://nypost.com/2017/05/08/ive-had-it-with-the-rangers-experience-edge/


AV either gets it tonight or we go home, and so should he, as we'd lose to a team we are better than. F experience...play the guys who deserve to play and are actually producing results now...not 3 years ago against Montreal or the Caps.

 

[RangersFan]

And AV says this yesterday, and it makes my head spin:

“I believe in this group, and we’re going to rely on our experience,” he said. “With experience you can see things evolving a little bit quicker, and you can focus on the right things. You can play with confidence because you’ve been through it before. So very confident that our leadership is going to be ready. They’re going to bring it.”

Vigneault also looked toward his goalie, saying, “We need Hank to be Hank.”

“I think Brady is a real good young player. But I also believe that on the left side, Marc Staal and Ryan McDonagh have a lot of experience and they’re good players, too,” Vigneault said. “Brady is, without a doubt, a good young defenseman that is only going to get better.”


F experience as Brooks said. Jesus this drives me nuts.

 

[panzerporter]

Puckdaddy had a great article yesterday about AV's personnel choices during these late game lapses. I'm not giving up on the Rangers, they should win his series, now that they're backed into a corner we'll see how they respond.

 

[Messiah717]

The Oilers and Caps came out and dominated. It will be interesting to see how those game 7s turn out. The Rangers can force their own 7th game if they come with the same desperate mindset. They're the better team but getting outworked. Lets face it as well. You need Lundqvist to show up and be lights out. That has always been the key to this team as they go as he goes.