Game Thread GAME# 59: CELTICS @ BLAZERS - FEBRUARY 25, 2020 - TUESDAY, 7:00 PM, NBCSNW

[B-Roy]

I hate these stats.

It's apples to oranges. Hood is a guy you could throw the ball to to create offense, and he was an elite shooter this year from three. Ariza is good in transition and is serviceable as a corner catch and shoot player. But he's so much more limited than Hood, who was one of the best iso players in the league this season before he went down. We are a worse team without him because of the defensive attention he drew away from Dame/CJ. You think teams guard Ariza at all, much less actually plan for him?

This is yet another situation where the stats aren't exactly "holistic," and need to be taken with a massive grain of salt.

Ariza has also been a better defender. I'd say there's an argument there that Ariza has been just as good, if not better than Hood.

 

[illmatic99]

Ariza has also been a better defender. I'd say there's an argument there that Ariza has been just as good, if not better than Hood.

They're different players with different strengths.

 

[wizenheimer]

I hate these stats.

It's apples to oranges. Hood is a guy you could throw the ball to to create offense, and he was an elite shooter this year from three. Ariza is good in transition and is serviceable as a corner catch and shoot player. But he's so much more limited than Hood, who was one of the best iso players in the league this season before he went down. We are a worse team without him because of the defensive attention he drew away from Dame/CJ. You think teams guard Ariza at all, much less actually plan for him?

This is yet another situation where the stats aren't exactly "holistic," and need to be taken with a massive grain of salt.
.

well then, here's another stat you'll hate: Portland was 8-12 with Hood (.400). And they are 18-20 without Hood (.473). If Portland was actually better with Hood then you'd think they'd have a better record with him than without him, but that's not the case

besides that, the Hood we saw is very likely gone for good. Matthews was never the same after his injury and that's the norm for Achilles injuries. Hood was a jump shooter that gained great elevation on his shot, often after quick change of direction iso-moves...those are two things most likely impacted by an Achilles injury

 

[illmatic99]

well then, here's another stat you'll hate: Portland was 8-12 with Hood (.400). And they are 18-20 without Hood (.473). If Portland was actually better with Hood then you'd think they'd have a better record with him than without him, but that's not the case

besides that, the Hood we saw is very likely gone for good. Matthews was never the same after his injury and that's the norm for Achilles injuries. Hood was a jump shooter that gained great elevation on his shot, often after quick change of direction iso-moves...those are two things most likely impacted by an Achilles injury

Why do you quote my post when you just cut off sentences that cut off context? Seriously?

 

[royo]

No they essentially have 1 starter or had one starter the last two games. You're smart enough to be able to figure this out. If the starting line up would be, Nurkic, Zach, Hood, CJ, and Dame, but they're playing Whiteside, Melo, Trent, CJ, and Ariza. Only one is left. Sure they're getting "something" starterish like from those guys, but it's a 48-minute game numbers will be put up, even on the worst teams (hey like the Blazers) someone will get some points/rebounds/assists. The fact is though they played two games now with 1 guy starting who would be starting if the roster was healthy. Their bench might actually be decent though if the 4 guys who are starting were coming off the bench.

Wonder what Hassan have to do to be a starter. Wilt Chamberlain stats? Your logic is mind-blowing, seriously man.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Wonder what Hassan have to do to be a starter.

Be the backup to a starter who is injured. As is the case right now.

Nobody is saying that Whiteside and Ariza aren't starter-level players. The statement is that of the players who would be starting if everyone were healthy, 4 of them are not healthy. Sure, the actual net effect has a much greater impact on our bench production since our best bench players are now starting, but it's honestly impossible to dispute what the starting lineup would be right now if everyone were healthy.

It is frustrating to think about how good a healthy Dame/CJ/Hood/Collins/Nurk + Trent/Little/Ariza/Melo/Whiteside team could be, knowing that we're never going to see it.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Wonder what Hassan have to do to be a starter. Wilt Chamberlain stats? Your logic is mind-blowing, seriously man.

Hassan didn't start for Miami either (last year). I never once said Hassan is a 'bad' player, he may start somewhere next year. I am saying that if healthy Nurk would be the starter here not Hassan. I'm not sure whats mind-blowing about that, but whatever.

 

[wizenheimer]

Why do you quote my post when you just cut off sentences that cut off context? Seriously?

you said Portland was a worse team without Hood. The reasons you gave don't matter because there's a simple test of Portland being worse without Hood...the record of wins and losses. All of the explanations you can come up with seem pretty secondary to that test.

but just to make you happy I'll edit back in the extra verbiage

 

[royo]

If Nurk wasn't hurt, Hassan wouldn't be here. He is a starter.
And btw, would Nurk be a starter in Denver rite now? Was he then?
Was Hood a starter in Cavs? Was he then better then Ariza?
Would Collins really be a starter in any team better then we are now?
We got Lillard out and, let's say Melo should not be a starter.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

you said Portland was a worse team without Hood. The reasons you gave don't matter because there's a simple test of Portland being worse without Hood...the record of wins and losses. All of the explanations you can come up with seem pretty secondary to that test.

but just to make you happy I'll edit back in the extra verbiage

If you count the games that Hood played with the Blazers last year and this year they're better. Also, I think Dame could go super-nova to lead to those W's with Ariza or Hood it had little to do with who the SF was and was mostly because Dame went out of his mind.

The problem with the start of this season and using that small sample size to say well Hood really wasn't good. Everyone knew they had a tough first 20 games before the season even started. Hood wasn't the issue (at least all of it). CJ played awful at the start of the year, and they couldn't guard anyone.

Hood and Ariza are both ok players and have different strengths, but Hood would be starting if healthy not Ariza, and I don't know if they'd be worse or better.

 

[illmatic99]

you said Portland was a worse team without Hood. The reasons you gave don't matter because there's a simple test of Portland being worse without Hood...the record of wins and losses. All of the explanations you can come up with seem pretty secondary to that test.

but just to make you happy I'll edit back in the extra verbiage

I think you just did not read my post and decided to comment on one part of one sentence and run with it. It's OK, you can admit that. But expect to get called on it when you make it seem like I said something far stronger than what I actually did.

I only talked about Hood being better because of the defensive attention he warranted.

And it's really convenient to ignore our record in the playoffs and in late games last yr when he did better if you're simply going to break it down to with and without Hood.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

If Nurk wasn't hurt, Hassan wouldn't be here. He is a starter.
And btw, would Nurk be a starter in Denver rite now? Was he then?
Was Hood a starter in Cavs? Was he then better then Ariza?
Would Collins really be a starter in any team better then we are now?
We got Lillard out and, let's say Melo should not be a starter.

You're ignoring the part though that all those guys are here and if everyone was healthy the starters would have 4 different players then they are starting now. So for this team, the starters would be Nurk, Zach, Hood, CJ and Dame. You're right if Nurk isn't hurt Whiteside probably isn't here, but he is here and he would be a back up to Nurk not a starter. It doesn't make whiteside bad, or Ariza bad, it is just the truth if healthy they wouldn't be starting, because the guys who would be are hurt.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think you just did not read my post and decided to comment on one part of one sentence and run with it. It's OK, you can admit that. But expect to get called on it when you make it seem like I said something far stronger than what I actually did.

I only talked about Hood being better because of the defensive attention he warranted.

And it's really convenient to ignore our record in the playoffs and in late games last yr when he did better if you're simply going to break it down to with and without Hood.

c'mon man, I don't have ADD. I read your entire post, including the reasons why you thought Portland was better with Hood. I'm not saying Portland isn't better with Hood than with Ariza. I'm just saying that all the subjective reasons why sure appear to be refuted by the records

as for the record last season...wut?

we aren't discussing last season...we're discussing whether or not Hood or Ariza is worth more wins this year. Last season's team had Kanter, Aminu, Harkless, Meyers, Layman, Curry, & Turner. That's more than half the team gone and all were rotation players. And you're the one complaining about apples to oranges?

Personally, I think the difference is negligible when it comes to records. They are both supporting role players and no single role player is going to change the trajectory of a team enough to make a significant difference. I'll also say, that after all the snake oil Olshey sold last summer about floor spacing and distracting opposing defenses I don't assign much credibility to that argument

 

[wizenheimer]

If you count the games that Hood played with the Blazers last year and this year they're better.

LOL...of course Portland was better last year with Hood. When Hood joined Portland they had Nurkic, Kanter, Zach, Aminu, Harkless, Curry, Meyers, Layman, and Turner. That's 9 guys not around this season. It was a completely different team. What we don't know is if Portland would have been worse last season if it was Ariza instead of Hood who had been brought in.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

LOL...of course Portland was better last year with Hood. When Hood joined Portland they had Nurkic, Kanter, Zach, Aminu, Harkless, Curry, Meyers, Layman, and Turner. That's 9 guys not around this season. It was a completely different team. What we don't know is if Portland would have been worse last season if it was Ariza instead of Hood who had been brought in.

Well, he was part of that better team. Has Ariza's absence made Sacramento any worse or better? They're both role players and have somewhat of a limited impact but we know that Hood would be starting if he were healthy. I'm not knocking Ariza or Whiteside or who-ever. It doesn't change the fact that the guys who would be starting aren't. I think Whiteside's actually been very good and would start some places. I think Ariza's been pretty good too.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Will you be watching the game or the debate tonight?

 

[Strenuus]

Will you be watching the game or the debate tonight?

It's a game thread. They'll be both.

 

[Scalma]

Aiight heres my audition to coach.

NO Mario.

YES Nas.

YES Wenyen.

Did I get the job?

 

[SIeepwalker]

Aiight heres my audition to coach.

NO Mario.

YES Nas.

YES Wenyen.

Did I get the job?

Holy shit hire this guy ! What a genius !

 

[Wade Garrett]

Will you be watching the game or the debate tonight?

Both.
The debate is over around 7:00-7:15.
Not exactly a conflict.

 

[Chris Craig]

Aiight heres my audition to coach.

NO Mario.

YES Nas.

YES Wenyen.

Did I get the job?

Your hired

 

[Scalma]

Throw these jerseys in the trash please. Thank god I’ll never see them again after this season.

 

[DDolla]

First five minutes if Blazers starts hot, you know that’s fools gold. If Celtics starts hot, it’s over.

 

[James lamphear]

We look like we are focus tonight and be nice if Trent can hit some of those 3.

 

[Darkwebs]

Why are we using Hassan like he's Nurk? Whiteside can't pass that well.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I loved our first play of the game. Doing OK since; just that Trent missed a couple open threes. Hope he starts making them.

 

[Darkwebs]

Great uppercut by Tatum!

 

[AldoTrapani]

Man I cringe when Simons comes in. He’s been so bad this year

 

[JDC]

Good intentions but the results haven't always been there.

Few too many miscues defensively as well.

Enjoyable start overall.

 

[AldoTrapani]

Cj is waaaaaay better when he’s not playing with Dame. He’s a walking triple double threat