Game Thread GAME# 81: BLAZERS @ LAKERS - APRIL 9, 2019 - TUESDAY, 7:30 PM, NBCSNW

[KingSpeed]

0.7 left. not a buzzer beater

Exactly

 

[KingSpeed]

@KingSpeed look at this

Thanks

 

[kjironman1]

I remember Mike & Mike telling us (obviously a few years ago when they were still broadcasting), "33" is just the generic call for the 2 for 1. It's a signal for the Blazers to try and get a shot up at around 33 seconds left in the quarter so they can get at least 2 possessions.

I really don't like it either. Dame drops off and chucks a long three at around 31-33 seconds and the other team gets this long rebound and stuffs it down the Blazers throats. Then the Blazers come right back up and try an ISO and miss when Dame is double or triple teamed.

 

[riverman]

looks like on a teleprompter someone is scrolling an OT discussion between barfo and maris

 

[BonesJones]

Trapping or getting closer to the level of the screen is letting the big get behind his defender. You're still having to rely on whoever the low man is to tag the roller who probably wont have the size to stop him from finishing, even if he gets there.

You're also leaving yourself vulnerable to open corner threes.

Yes, a more aggressive scheme limits dribble penetration, but your more likely to give up high value shots.

But by trapping or hedging, you're putting a defender in the ball handlers face off the screen, making the pass more difficult and affording extra time for help side to rotate, increasing the chance they can be of help. With hedging. The key is to stop dribble penetration and handoff the ball handler back to the original defender, and then to fill the passing lane rotating back into position, where the helpside hands off the rolling big back to his original defender.

If done properly, the ball handler always has a defender in his face, theirs defense course enough to account for the roll man at all times and disrupt what would be a longer and more difficult lob, and there's no dribble penetration.

Much harder to lob against that then trailing the ball handler and letting him and the roll man to get downhill and making the dropping big try to guard both, or choose correctly.

With McGee, the Lakers had an extremely high chance of getting a great shot in the pick n roll all-season, and we didn't try anything else.

 

[jonnyboy]

0.7 left. not a buzzer beater

Ah gotcha. I guess I was was conflating it with a “game winner”.

Im steadfast in my opinions on ESPN though.

 

[illmatic99]

Thanks

best we can hope for is a 3-6 vs SA. Clips out of the picture for 6 after OKC won tonight

 

[DollaBel]

Man I hope there are some orders from upstairs to rest Dame tomorrow

Giannis isn’t playing tomorrow, the Thunder will win. I desperately want Utah over OKC

 

[DDolla]

Good News is... the OKC and Bucks game is early and we will know the result before our game.

 

[JDC]

But by trapping or hedging, you're putting a defender in the ball handlers face off the screen, making the pass more difficult and affording extra time for help side to rotate, increasing the chance they can be of help. With hedging. The key is to stop dribble penetration and handoff the ball handler back to the original defender, and then to fill the passing lane rotating back into position, where the helpside hands off the rolling big back to his original defender.

If done properly, the ball handler always has a defender in his face, theirs defense course enough to account for the roll man at all times and disrupt what would be a longer and more difficult lob, and there's no dribble penetration.

Much harder to lob against that then trailing the ball handler and letting him and the roll man to get downhill and making the dropping big try to guard both, or choose correctly.

With McGee, the Lakers had an extremely high chance of getting a great shot in the pick n roll all-season, and we didn't try anything else.

The way the floor is spaced and the amount of skill on the floor in today's NBA makes it much harder to execute that scheme consistently and it's why you see it so rarely use compared to even 4-5 years ago. I also don't think we have personnel pull it off.

This is the best example I can give:

The Celtics from 2008-2012 were the league's best defensive team using a hedge and recover + aggressive help screen that you just described.

Fast forward to 2019 and you have the #1 defense Milwaukee Bucks using the most extreme version of drop coverage I've ever seen a team use and limiting shots at the rim at a historic rate.

This is after horribly under performing with Kidd who used an aggressive hedge and recover scheme that gave up both tons of shots at the rim and from 3.

 

[Jade Falcon]

We have so much to thank Magic Johnson for.

Thank you for destroying the Lakers, Magic.

 

[hoopsjock]

But by trapping or hedging, you're putting a defender in the ball handlers face off the screen, making the pass more difficult and affording extra time for help side to rotate, increasing the chance they can be of help. With hedging. The key is to stop dribble penetration and handoff the ball handler back to the original defender, and then to fill the passing lane rotating back into position, where the helpside hands off the rolling big back to his original defender.

If done properly, the ball handler always has a defender in his face, theirs defense course enough to account for the roll man at all times and disrupt what would be a longer and more difficult lob, and there's no dribble penetration.

Much harder to lob against that then trailing the ball handler and letting him and the roll man to get downhill and making the dropping big try to guard both, or choose correctly.

With McGee, the Lakers had an extremely high chance of getting a great shot in the pick n roll all-season, and we didn't try anything else.

Just to add to this, we also don't rotate from the weak side to stop the lob either as we seem too worried about leaving a 3 point shooter. During GS's first title run it's something that really stood out to me was Bogut and Draymond were elite at simply being in the right spots almost every time. Bogut would rotate out on the pick and roll and there was Draymond in perfect position to guard against the lob. The rest of the defense was aware enough to recover quickly if the ball got swung to the opposite side too.

 

[Cugel]

Seth made it happen. He shows up to play every night. I would like to see him with a multi-year deal. There I said it.

 

[hoopsjock]

I understand the theory behind a hedge and recover scheme.

But the way the floor is spaced and the amount of skill on the floor in today's NBA makes it much harder to execute that consistently and why you see it so rarely use compared to even 4-5 years ago.

This is the best example I can give:

The Celtics from 2008-2012 where the leagues best defensive team over that stretch using a hedge and recover + aggressive help screen that you just described.

Fast forward to 2019 and you have the #1 defense Milwaukee Bucks using the most extreme version of drop coverage I've ever seen a team use and limiting shots at the rim at a historic rate.

This also after horribly under performing with Kidd who used an aggressive hedge and recover scheme.

Two things to this...

1) My problem isn't that we don't have an aggressive hedge or that we use drop coverage, it's that we rarely mix it up or tweak it accordingly during the game. It's one thing if you're a great defense to use a particular style most of the time but in my opinion an average defensive team like the Blazers should be throwing multiple looks on their PnR coverage. I think it's tough to compensate for bad defenders when the other team knows what you will do every time.

2) The two teams you mentioned had/have two of the most amazingly unique athletes this game has seen. Garnett was a beast and was a perfect fit for an aggressive hedge defense. He also was a master at communicating the coverages like a QB out there. Giannis is just a freak. I've seen multiple times this year where he is out of position and his closing speed is just so unreal that he can get away with it. Their last game against Philly on one play he was somehow able to guard against both a lob inside and a kick out to a wide open 3 point shooter. It shouldn't even be possible, lol. Plus Middleton and Bledsoe (and Brogdon before getting injured) are all above average at navigating through picks.

 

[JDC]

Just to add to my last post.

The Bucks also aggressively help and give up a ton of 3's, but are also smart about who they give up those 3's to and its worked incredibly well. Terry could definitely learn something from that.

Interested to see how that philosophy holds up in the playoffs though.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Since we won can I complain about the officiating crew? Got I hate that group. That offensive foul on CJ felt dirty.

Regardless, how about having 4 Blazers going scoreless. Combined they were 0-14
Aminu, Hood, Jake, and Collins.

Thank god for Curry and Hark

 

[JDC]

Two things to this...

1) My problem isn't that we don't have an aggressive hedge or that we use drop coverage, it's that we rarely mix it up or tweak it accordingly during the game. It's one thing if you're a great defense to use a particular style most of the time but in my opinion an average defensive team like the Blazers should be throwing multiple looks on their PnR coverage. I think it's tough to compensate for bad defenders when the other team knows what you will do every time.

2) The two teams you mentioned had/have two of the most amazingly unique athletes this game has seen. Garnett was a beast and was a perfect fit for an aggressive hedge defense. He also was a master at communicating the coverages like a QB out there. Giannis is just a freak. I've seen multiple times this year where he is out of position and his closing speed is just so unreal that he can get away with it. Their last game against Philly on one play he was somehow able to guard against both a lob inside and a kick out to a wide open 3 point shooter. It shouldn't even be possible, lol. Plus Middleton and Bledsoe (and Brogdon before getting injured) are all above average at navigating through picks.

Fair points.

I'm definitely more in the do what you do really well and less so in the switch it up camp...especially in the regular season. But I also understand that against the best players in the world in the playoffs, that's often not good enough unlesss you have elite personnel which we clearly don't have. But I'm not at the point with both this group or with Stotts that I'm ready to give up on the idea that they can't learn from their past failures and evolve (as crazy as that might sound after this many years).

We've seen it offensively. I think Terry has accomplished his goals of getting better results in semi transition and we've ran a wider variety of sets (with more purpose) that have done both a better job getting all players involved and producing higher value shots (look at our passing numbers post December...we're also 2nd in % of plays resulting in cuts).

There's also been less of a reliance on our thumb series which I felt the players got bored with last year, and overall just feel like the team has really made a jump in their overall continuity offensively.

 

[Darkwebs]

We have so much to thank Magic Johnson for.

Thank you for destroying the Lakers, Magic.

Yeah, Magic did the equivalent of visiting the Laker's house, taking a dump in the living room, setting it on fire, then pissing on it to put the flames out, and casually walking out with a "See ya later."

 

[hoopsjock]

52 Wins!!!!!!!

Who had us this year with more wins than teams like Boston, Philly, Utah, and OKC?

 

[JDC]

52 Wins!!!!!!!

Who had us this year with more wins than teams like Boston, Philly, Utah, and OKC?

Thought we had top 10 on both ends potential, putting us in the mix with those teams. Both Philly and Boston we're overrated coming into the year.

Got there in a different way than expected, but it's been a really fun year with a group that's been really easy to root for. Only disappointment for me was Zach not getting as much of an opportunity to both play as the lone big or with our better players, but he'll get his chance eventually. Another big summer for him coming up.

Great year from Dame, Nurk's jump and Terry playing his best guys together more often were the biggest factors.

 

[THE HCP]

Can’t wait to read this thread! Plane taking off. I’m quite sure people were killing my boys during this one!

 

[riverman]

Can’t wait to read this thread! Plane taking off. I’m quite sure people were killing my boys during this one!

yeah...your guy Magic was getting roasted

 

[THE HCP]

Do whatever you have to do to avoid OKC.

 

[Labinot41]

Do whatever you have to do to avoid OKC.

Tell the team to tank if OKC wins at Milwaukee please please please

 

[stampedehero]

Starters MIN FG 3PT FT OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
A. AminuPF 19 0-4 0-3 0-0 0 5 5 0 1 0 0 0 +4 0
M. HarklessSF 34 9-14 1-4 7-8 3 5 8 0 0 4 0 2 +13 26
E. KanterC 37 8-13 1-1 5-6 6 10 16 2 1 0 3 4 +15 22
D. LillardPG 36 6-16 3-10 5-5 1 3 4 8 3 1 3 0 +3 20
C. McCollumSG 29 5-13 1-6 0-1 0 1 1 3 0 1 2 3 +17 11
Bench MIN FG 3PT FT OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Z. CollinsPF 13 0-2 0-1 0-0 1 1 2 0 0 2 2 1 -10 0
J. LaymanSF 9 0-4 0-2 0-0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 2 -2 0
S. CurrySG 27 7-13 5-8 0-0 0 2 2 1 3 0 1 1 -3 19
E. TurnerSG 16 2-5 0-0 2-2 0 3 3 3 0 1 1 0 -10 6
R. HoodSG 20 0-6 0-2 0-0 0 2 2 1 0 1 0 1 -12 0

S. LabissiereS. LabissierePF DNP-COACH'S DECISION
M. LeonardM. LeonardPF DNP-COACH'S DECISION
A. SimonsA. SimonsSG DNP-COACH'S DECISION
TEAM 37-90 11-37 19-22 11 34 45 18 8 10 12 14 104 41.1% 29.7% Source ESPN

 

[SIeepwalker]

Tell the team to tank if OKC wins at Milwaukee please please please

Yeah, I'm sure if HCP tell them that they will listem

 

[Labinot41]

Yeah, I'm sure if HCP tell them that they will listem

Yes. HCP is the Goat!

 

[kjironman1]

Doesn't matter what Magic did or said. I don't care that LeBron wasn't playing. It's always good to beat the Lakers and do it on the road ripping their hearts out on a last second shot.

 

[Cugel]

With Lavar's help Lonzo will be back next season to down every other free throw. The Lakers should just go full Kardashian and sign the the while Ball family and make a reality show of it. That would give them the top 3 goats and a championship for sure. Fuck each and every one of them. No Vaseline (for cube)

 

[Hoopguru]

Its great that different guys are coming through each game. Props to CJ for that perfect pass to Mo!