Gender issue revisited - Buck Angel

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BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Hoojacks, I'm more concerned why it matters and people have to be defined? As long as we respect one another and treat people how we'd like to be treated, WTF else matters?

I'm also saying it's not all black and white as Denny says it is (for the record, that's not a reference about race).
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Well, the point is that we're not all respectful to each other. One of the things that this deconstructionist analysis of gender is ultimately a reaction to is that for years and years people were saying that LGTBQ people were either insane, delusional, morally corrupt or otherwise deviant. Another thing its reacting to is the gender binary, that you have to either be one or the other with no in between. Gender isn't being defined here, it's being redefined because many people feel that they do not agree with society's standard definition.
 
BG, I understand what you saying. No problem. You have a different view, but, you are willing to be friendly, accepting and respectful. That's great. If everyone went that far, I'd never talk on this topic. But when others are rude, crude and disrespectful I try and explain two things. One, these are real people who have never harmed you and deserve the respect you would show anyone. Two, I explain what I believe to be a correct application of the term gender in today's society. I try to convince people to change their belief on the subject when they are disrespectful. If your beliefs don't match mine, but you show respect, that's good enough for me. Crandc, Denny, they may go further, and I hope they convince you, but I don't think that's required. People have different beliefs all the time, and that's fine. Even though I'm an atheist, I try not to take the lords name in vain because I think that's disrespectful to believers.
 
Further said:
BG, I understand what you saying. No problem. You have a different view, but, you are willing to be friendly, accepting and respectful. That's great. If everyone went that far, I'd never talk on this topic. But when others are rude, crude and disrespectful I try and explain two things. One, these are real people who have never harmed you and deserve the respect you would show anyone. Two, I explain what I believe to be a correct application of the term gender in today's society. I try to convince people to change their belief on the subject when they are disrespectful. If your beliefs don't match mine, but you show respect, that's good enough for me. Crandc, Denny, they may go further, and I hope they convince you, but I don't think that's required. People have different beliefs all the time, and that's fine. Even though I'm an atheist, I try not to take the lords name in vain because I think that's disrespectful to believers.
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I hear you. I guess I'm trying to bridge the gap for some. I think this is a genuine learning opportunity. I don't take much in this world too seriously, especially not this board. But there are teaching and learning moments in our exchanges on this board. I dunno. I don't so much worry about changing one's beliefs as much as I worry about bridging the acceptance and tolerance of two different beliefs. We don't have to believe in the same thing; I'd like to believe we can all learn to live and accept those that are different, and that means co-exist peacefully, without bias and hate. It's not the ultimate world, but it's a step in the right direction, and a small stretch of track in a long race. I may not have the same beliefs along the way, but I preach the same ending: tolerance, peace, acceptance, love.
 
Further said:
Learn this, my dick could strangle your whole family!
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Wow. (in currently-banned, former-poster style). Mods, I believe this is a sincere threat on my life and on my family. I demand something be done immediately. I need to know who this person is. I need to procure my household and my family. I will now attempt to contact the authorities. My life is in evident and immediate danger.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Wow. (in currently-banned, former-poster style). Mods, I believe this is a sincere threat on my life and on my family. I demand something be done immediately. I need to know who this person is. I need to procure my household and my family. I will now attempt to contact the authorities. My life is in evident and immediate danger.
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Ahhhh, I was joking, it wouldn't fit around more than two necks.
 
Lol. It was my response to the BenDavis threat.

But your length makes El-p's post more reasonable (I believe it was him, if not I apologize where he asked you to put your mouth where your dick was).
 
Denny Crane said:
Key word delusion.

As scientifically determined by the entirety of psychology.
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Yeah, you're deluded if you seriously think anything can be scientifically determined by the entirety of psychology.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Lol. It was my response to the BenDavis threat.

But your length makes El-p's post more reasonable (I believe it was him, if not I apologize where he asked you to put your mouth where your dick was).
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I should have let El P know that I'd have to coil up my junk first. Things like a rock climbing rope when my carabiner piercing is in.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Wow. (in currently-banned, former-poster style). Mods, I believe this is a sincere threat on my life and on my family. I demand something be done immediately. I need to know who this person is. I need to procure my household and my family. I will now attempt to contact the authorities. My life is in evident and immediate danger.
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procure:
1
a : to get possession of : obtain by particular care and effort
b : to get and make available for promiscuous sexual intercourse
 
Speaking-wise, the whole "trans" add-on is awkward and not very accurate in describing anything at all. It means "across", "beyond" or "on the opposite side". Can't imagine using it to describe a human being to someone.

I have no problem with how they self-identify, it's just not how I identify with others. Name, character, talent, occupation, whether they are a good person or an asshole, those are ways I describe people I guess.

I don't say "Billy, my African-American friend, is also coming to the party." I say "Billy, my friend from work, is also coming to the party." Or "Billy, the singer in our band, is also coming to the party."

Hey Denny, I really dislike sociopaths. Does that make me a bigot? :dunno:
 
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Not sayin' I don't like Trans, cuz I do.

[video=youtube;QSNQhLm1V84]
 
So, if a man of color that prefers to be called an African-American is called a black man when he's not present, it's a civil rights violation?

Go Blazers
 
oldguy said:
So, if a man of color that prefers to be called an African-American is called a black man when he's not present, it's a civil rights violation?

Go Blazers
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I would think it depends on whether or not he's ever been an African citizen.
 
Please ignore my race, my gender, my sex, my political leanings... when addressing me.

They call me MARIS61. :cheers:
 
What if a woman trapped in a man's body later decides that they were wrong about that, and realizes they really are a guy?

Or just decides they would rather be a guy?

Or, what if they're just plain nasty, and would rather be a guy today and a gal tomorrow because that's hot to them?

Would someone have been wrong to have identified them from the start as a guy because they are plumbed male? Or would someone only be right during the period he/she changed their self identification to male or bi?

If they settle on their self identify as bi, is it violation of their civil rights to call them a guy?

Or is that just stupid, because a TG person would never, ever be that sexually confused in the first place?

Go Blazers
 
oldguy said:
What if a woman trapped in a man's body later decides that they were wrong about that, and realizes they really are a guy?

Or just decides they would rather be a guy?

Or, what if they're just plain nasty, and would rather be a guy today and a gal tomorrow because that's hot to them?

Would someone have been wrong to have identified them from the start as a guy because they are plumbed male? Or would someone only be right during the period he/she changed their self identification to male or bi?

If they settle on their self identify as bi, is it violation of their civil rights to call them a guy?

Or is that just stupid, because a TG person would never, ever be that sexually confused in the first place?

Go Blazers
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A lot of TG people don't take hormone treatment, cross dress, etc. It's not a simple thing. Especially with societal pressures, bigotry, etc.

The rule is you call the person what they look like. Dresses like a woman, she is a woman.

The civil rights issue is about unequal treatment and worse. Worse means violence towards and even killing of these people for no reason other than they are "different."
 
Denny Crane said:
The rule is you call the person what they look like. Dresses like a woman, she is a woman.
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Oh, OK. So when I see little girls who like to dress like and play with the boys, I should refer to them as "he"? Got it.
 
Why do so many of you care if someone, an adult, wants to be called a "she", while outwardly appearing to be the opposite gender?

Who cares if you think she should be called a "he".

It's not up to you.

To me, it's the same as someone who is gay. I don't know why this has any impact on your life, or why you should have an opinion on whether or not they are called something other than than what they prefer to be called.

If you want to be called Lord Fluffy pants, that's fine by me (but that's not the same thing, but if you've reached the point where you have to make that silly of a point, the argument is already lost)
 
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Denny, I did not realize I was gay when I looked at Playboy. Actually the posed, hypersexualized, fake model type leaves me cold. I "reazlied" I was gay when I finally learned that there was a word for what I'd always felt. That's true for most of us.

Blazing Giants, I believe you (unlike some others) have good will so I will try once more. Do I say that only some views are right? Frankly, yes. Everyone may have the "right" to an opinion but some are based on facts and some are not. I'm sorry, but on this issue you are wrong. It's not a matter of "lying". There are people who genuinely believe the moon landings were faked. They might ask if they are supposed to lie and say the moon landings happened when they are convinced the landings did not happen. The problem is that their opinion is not based on reality. The moon landings happened. They are simply wrong.

I don't believe you are this kind of nut case; I deliberately brought up an absurdity to make the point. Being transgender is not a fad or an idea or a preference or a mood. It is a reality for transpeople. I am glad you would not threaten or actually carry out rape or murder of a transperson, unlike the hundreds who threatened this woman because she wanted to be called her correct gender.
 
crandc said:
Denny, I did not realize I was gay when I looked at Playboy. Actually the posed, hypersexualized, fake model type leaves me cold. I "reazlied" I was gay when I finally learned that there was a word for what I'd always felt. That's true for most of us.

Blazing Giants, I believe you (unlike some others) have good will so I will try once more. Do I say that only some views are right? Frankly, yes. Everyone may have the "right" to an opinion but some are based on facts and some are not. I'm sorry, but on this issue you are wrong. It's not a matter of "lying". There are people who genuinely believe the moon landings were faked. They might ask if they are supposed to lie and say the moon landings happened when they are convinced the landings did not happen. The problem is that their opinion is not based on reality. The moon landings happened. They are simply wrong.

I don't believe you are this kind of nut case; I deliberately brought up an absurdity to make the point. Being transgender is not a fad or an idea or a preference or a mood. It is a reality for transpeople. I am glad you would not threaten or actually carry out rape or murder of a transperson, unlike the hundreds who threatened this woman because she wanted to be called her correct gender.
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I used the playboy magazine example to point out there was an "aha!" moment where you realized you were attracted to girls. Before puberty, I wasn't much attracted to girls; didn't really think about it much, if at all.
 
julius said:
Why do so many of you care if someone, an adult, wants to be called a "she", while outwardly appearing to be the opposite gender?

Who cares if you think she should be called a "he".

It's not up to you.

To me, it's the same as someone who is gay. I don't know why this has any impact on your life, or why you should have an opinion on whether or not they are called something other than than what they prefer to be called.

If you want to be called Lord Fluffy pants, that's fine by me (but that's not the same thing, but if you've reached the point where you have to make that silly of a point, the argument is already lost)
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Lord Fluffy Pants is reserved for barfo.
 
crandc said:
Denny, I did not realize I was gay when I looked at Playboy. Actually the posed, hypersexualized, fake model type leaves me cold. I "reazlied" I was gay when I finally learned that there was a word for what I'd always felt. That's true for most of us.

Blazing Giants, I believe you (unlike some others) have good will so I will try once more. Do I say that only some views are right? Frankly, yes. Everyone may have the "right" to an opinion but some are based on facts and some are not. I'm sorry, but on this issue you are wrong. It's not a matter of "lying". There are people who genuinely believe the moon landings were faked. They might ask if they are supposed to lie and say the moon landings happened when they are convinced the landings did not happen. The problem is that their opinion is not based on reality. The moon landings happened. They are simply wrong.

I don't believe you are this kind of nut case; I deliberately brought up an absurdity to make the point. Being transgender is not a fad or an idea or a preference or a mood. It is a reality for transpeople. I am glad you would not threaten or actually carry out rape or murder of a transperson, unlike the hundreds who threatened this woman because she wanted to be called her correct gender.
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Whats interesting about that situation, what if she had actually be, an honest to god, "unattractive" woman who looked more masculine than feminine? I think it's safe to say the host knew who she was, and made a choice not to refer to her as a "she" or 'her'.

If she had a woman (I know this sounds like I'm being hypocritical here, but I'm not as up to date on how to differentiate here), I doubt anyone would've done the "that person" routine and gotten away with it.

Admitting or saying someone is a 'she' or a 'he' (when they're born the opposite sex/gender whatever the term is), doesn't do anything to you. It doesn't make you less masculine, or manly. It just seems to be a waste of time to refuse to do something so simple.
 
julius said:
Why do so many of you care if someone, an adult, wants to be called a "she", while outwardly appearing to be the opposite gender?

Who cares if you think she should be called a "he".

It's not up to you.

To me, it's the same as someone who is gay. I don't know why this has any impact on your life, or why you should have an opinion on whether or not they are called something other than than what they prefer to be called.

If you want to be called Lord Fluffy pants, that's fine by me (but that's not the same thing, but if you've reached the point where you have to make that silly of a point, the argument is already lost)
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Why do people care about how the words in our language are defined and what they mean? Yeah, that's a really great question. [/green font]

It's called communication. Society can't exist without it.
 
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