Gerald Wallace very available

[anonymous gambler]

Well besides the fact that numbers dont work out...Is there ever gonna be a thread like this where you guys will ever think you actually have to give up one of your good players to get a good player? I dont think Ive heard Roy, Oden, or LMA name in any fantasy trade proposal in here or bbf.....ever

Okay, how about LMA/Raef for Kobe?

 

[DaRizzle]

If was not a good trade for Memphis, at all. Other GMs were mystified.

I don't think Laker fans would take the trade back, if it were so balanced.

ugh....It helped both teams since both teams had a different goal at the time! It was balanced if you factor in that both teams didn't have the same goals for the immediate future. The infamous "REBUILD" word.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't think Laker fans would take the trade back, if it were so balanced.

I don't think that's a good measure of whether it was a worthwhile trade for Memphis. The Grizzlies and Lakers, being in completely different situations, can plausibly need/want different things. Memphis did the deal for cap space and got a young prospect out of it (Marc Gasol) who was very highly regarded in the Euroleague. The Lakers, being title contenders, need a prime star more than they need cap space and a young prospect.

I don't think either team would undo the trade. I'm surprised that that was the best Memphis could get for Pau Gasol, but I don't believe there was any conspiracy. If that's the deal they took, I believe it was the best offer on the table for Gasol.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I actually think DaRizzle has this one right. I remember last year when the deal went down that it seemed awfully fishy, but in retrospect I think the Grizz got exactly what they wanted out of the deal. Pau was not playing to the best of his abilities, he wanted out, the fans wanted him out and in return they got a heap of cap room and his baby brother who has a chance to be a really decent big man. We can all lament how much better this made the Lakers and whether or not Wallace should have tried to find a better deal, but the simple fact is that it satisfied both parties.

Some people around here are just upset because it ended up strengthening a hated rival. Get over it.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

Wow...now Im a "fucking troll"...damn maybe I should have told you what I really thought about your "lets kill all the Christians" thread....anyways...

It is not me and me alone. I am the only one who has given any reasons justifying my view here(which I guess is trolling to you). You on the other hand keep saying "but everybody says...blah blah blah". At first I was right there with you the day the trade happened saying "holy shit...how?!?" and so was every commentator. They are paid to say shit so they say "wow look at this lopsided talent trade" rather than actually breaking it down and trying to see the motivation behind Memphis's decision....but yeah, Im a "fucking troll" and all your "points" were spot on

Dismissing commentators is a classic copout. Like I said hypocrite. Maybe you're not a fucking troll, but arguing in here about this makes you look stupid, it makes you look like a moron. Because EVERYBODY knows the trade was lopsided. In fact it was one of the most lopsided trades in history. You've done nothing in this thread but troll and be a hypocrite. You're usually a quality poster, but you've done nothing but post ass in this thread.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

Some people around here are just upset because it ended up strengthening a hated rival. Get over it.

Personal attack. Deleted.

 

[bluefrog]

Can we change the title of the thread to "Pau traded to LA"?
"shut up bluefrog you Personal attack. Deleted."
"don't call me a Personal attack. Deleted., you're a Personal attack. Deleted."
"If anyone here is a Personal attack. Deleted. then it you"
"I may be a Personal attack. Deleted. by HCP is the biggest Personal attack. Deleted. here"
"you're such a Personal attack. Deleted.. GOD! what a big Personal attack. Deleted. you are"

 

[BalancedMan]

Charlotte has been trying to get rid of their contracts. They just dumped Richardson and I think they were trying to move Felton too. A package of Outlaw/Frye is what they would look for. Outlaw is very valuable for his contract and can be a starting SF easily. Larry Brown likes Frye too (though he is a stand-up guy and I'd hate to have to ship him out).

That being said, I'm not sure. He is injury prone and not a long range shooter. He puts up better numbers when playing the 4 spot. But he is a good defender. It just depends on if we think we can spend (and attract talent) better in free agency, as well as how his skill set lines up with our other players. If he could shoot the 3-ball at a better clip it would be much better, but he doesn't.

 

[STOMP]

I remember last year when the deal went down that it seemed awfully fishy, but in retrospect I think the Grizz got exactly what they wanted out of the deal. Pau was not playing to the best of his abilities, he wanted out, the fans wanted him out and in return they got a heap of cap room and his baby brother who has a chance to be a really decent big man. We can all lament how much better this made the Lakers and whether or not Wallace should have tried to find a better deal, but the simple fact is that it satisfied both parties.

Some people around here are just upset because it ended up strengthening a hated rival. Get over it.

exactly. Both teams got what they wanted. One consolidated talent for a title run and the other got rid of a high paid PR problem, cap room, and cheap/talented prospects to retool their roster.

I understand some Blazer fans distaste over LA's improvement via last years deal, but that was really just NBA bidness. Who here is going to be upset if Don KP takes full advantage of his assets, be it Raef or a lopsided salary trade this off-season?

I'm not saying people need to give up their precious hate, but we can collectively analyze things too

STOMP

 

[DaRizzle]

Dismissing commentators is a classic copout. Like I said hypocrite. Maybe you're not a fucking troll, but arguing in here about this makes you look stupid, it makes you look like a moron. Because EVERYBODY knows the trade was lopsided. In fact it was one of the most lopsided trades in history. You've done nothing in this thread but troll and be a hypocrite. You're usually a quality poster, but you've done nothing but post ass in this thread.

Wait what? You mean by not being a lemming and taking the major sports annalists words as gospel im copping out? By me actually weighing the facts myself and give you the facts behind my reasoning is a copout/taking the easy way out???

You on the other hand have just constantly insulted me, called me a hypocrite (about what I have no clue), calling me a "moron" and "stupid"

Your sound reasoning proving I am wrong has been:

99% of basketball commentators, employees, and fans have all pblically said the fair wasn't trade.

Personal attack. Deleted.

Fucking Troll

Because EVERYBODY knows the trade was lopsided. In fact it was one of the most lopsided trades in history.

Dismissing commentators is a classic copout. Like I said hypocrite.

Thats just some awe inspiring analysis right there...I dont know how I can compete with that



...and evidently the POR fans who hate the Lakers just as much as you but no so much as to blind them actually agree with me on this...God forbid

 

[Nikolokolus]

...and evidently the POR fans who hate the Lakers just as much as you but no so much as to blind them actually agree with me on this...God forbid

Hey wait a minute. Did you just call me reasonable and sensible asshole? That's fucking bullshit man!!

 

[Jurassic]

This thread won't die.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

*edited: You have to argue civilly to post here*

 

[Jurassic]

Milkshake, you are acting cockier than Kanye's lyrics in the "Milkshake Freestyle". Hell, I'll post it and maybe it will distract you guys from all this fighting.

[video=youtube;3siWiAdcqjM]

 

[DaRizzle]

You're asking me to prove it? That's fucking absurd, and again makes you *edited*

Yes, me asking for your reasoning after me giving you the facts of what my opinion is based around is such a trolling dickmove on my part! I mean the audacity of myself to ask you to give the facts that made you come to your conclusion! Im such a troll for not saying "but everybody else said so..". God forbid you research the facts yourself instead of listening to the opinions of BITTER GM's around the league.

Why bother even being a part of a forum if you are just gonna say "You are wrong BECAUSE you are wrong"...give me a break.

...and you are still wrong

 

[alex42083]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10585

Sorry but here is a Wallace speech (paraphrased) to season ticket holders...I cant help it if it was the vogue thing to do was to bash the trade by just looking at it from the surface. Read his reasons instead of screaming "unfair"!!!

edit: sorry, that was another article saying it wasnt all bad. here is the Wallace speech:
http://3shadesofblue.blogspot.com/2008/02/wallace-explains-pau-trade-to-ticket.html

They're interesting reads, but still doesn't convince me that Memphis got a good deal. I won't call you a troll or anything like that though.
But this is Chris Wallace we're still talking about, who just signed Darius Miles in a 'rebuilding' effort. He hasn't had the greatest track record as a GM. He drafted and traded away Joe Johnson for Tony Delk/Rodney Rogers. He traded for Vin Baker when he was owed $50 mil, in a time no one would have wanted to touch him.

Memphis will have cap space, but will certainly not lure LeBron, Bosh, Wade or Nash in 2010. The team won't convince any FAs -- or at least any franchise-changing ones -- to go there, not with NY, NJ and Detroit setting themselves up to lure those top FAs.

He basically bashed Pau is that little meeting with his season-ticket holders, basically calling him a playoff loser. Then Pau goes on to be a missing piece that instantly helped LA to the NBA Finals during a time when Kobe was asking for a trade, and they were a first-round-and-out type of team.

Wallace said partly why he traded away Pau was him playing for Spain in the summer. Well, he traded for his brother who plays just as much for the Spanish national team and has become a building block for them I guess. That was a pathetic reason.

He said the phone was ringing off the hook afterward from GMs, essentially meaning that GMs knew they could rip him off if they wanted.

All it says is Wallace is a good salesman, but results haven't really proved anything during his GM tenure the past 10 years. Memphis is AT LEAST 3 years away from doing anything remotely of becoming any kind of contender, and by then, they might likely lose Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

He's definitely not a good perimeter shooter. He's a very good slasher, though, and a pretty darn good defender. He also can play both the 3 and the 4, so he might eventually settle into a very very good bench player if Webster or Batum evolve into quality starters.

Needless to say, I think an Outlaw + Frye for Wallace deal would be a great move for Portland and I'd love to see Gerald as a Blazer. I think that Blazers fans would love his game and his hustle, too...

Ed O.

Why would Charlotte do that trade? For player that's not as good as him at the same position and Frye?....Doesn't make sense.

I still see the trade to Minnesota making more sense...since charlotte actaully really wants McCants back in Carolina (he's a major fasn favorite there)...not to mention they can get Collins expiring contract and maybe a draft pick as well....much better return

 

[number 10]

Why would Charlotte do that trade? For player that's not as good as him at the same position and Frye?....Doesn't make sense.

I still see the trade to Minnesota making more sense...since charlotte actaully really wants McCants back in Carolina (he's a major fasn favorite there)...not to mention they can get Collins expiring contract and maybe a draft pick as well....much better return

Charlotte are desperate to get rid of Felton and May, so it's not like being a UNC alum is more important than performance, speaking of which... a PER of 9.22? ouch. The Blazers could outbid that easily.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Why would Charlotte do that trade? For player that's not as good as him at the same position and Frye?....Doesn't make sense.

I still see the trade to Minnesota making more sense...since charlotte actaully really wants McCants back in Carolina (he's a major fasn favorite there)...not to mention they can get Collins expiring contract and maybe a draft pick as well....much better return

McCants? Really? I've seen Rashad McCants play and I can't imagine why anyone would get excited about trading for him. I get it that you're a Minny fan and you'd like to see your team get better by acquiring Wallace, but Collins is less than worthless as a player at this point in his career (I'm not sure you could say he was ever more than that?) while Frye at least is a pretty good outside shooter, who rebounds OK, has a positive history with Larry Brown and he could easily be renounced at the end of the year if Charlotte doesn't want him and would rather get his 4 million QO off of their books. On the other hand, Travis Outlaw may not be a star, but he's consistently put up a PER of 15 almost every year of his career and plays the 3 or the 4; positions of need for Charlotte.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

Charlotte are desperate to get rid of Felton and May, so it's not like being a UNC alum is more important than performance, speaking of which... a PER of 9.22? ouch. The Blazers could outbid that easily.

True that being a UNC alum is that important....but...having just moved out to the Charlotte area before getting deployed and catching a Minnesota game in Charlotte...their is no doubt that they LOVE McCants over there. His Timberwolves jersey is a big seller in the area as well.

And it's not like McCants is a bad player either...he's scoring 15ppg as a 6th man in Minnesota. He can easily be a 20+ppg starter. And with an expiring 6.5mil and a draft pick....they might not get that much for Wallace from another team.

 

[DaRizzle]

They're interesting reads, but still doesn't convince me that Memphis got a good deal. I won't call you a troll or anything like that though.
But this is Chris Wallace we're still talking about, who just signed Darius Miles in a 'rebuilding' effort. He hasn't had the greatest track record as a GM. He drafted and traded away Joe Johnson for Tony Delk/Rodney Rogers. He traded for Vin Baker when he was owed $50 mil, in a time no one would have wanted to touch him.

While I agree he's no genius all of what you mentioned above is irrelevant to the Gasol trade.

Memphis will have cap space, but will certainly not lure LeBron, Bosh, Wade or Nash in 2010. The team won't convince any FAs -- or at least any franchise-changing ones -- to go there, not with NY, NJ and Detroit setting themselves up to lure those top FAs.

Yeah I agree those 4 wont go there but there are a whole lot more top quality FA in 2010. Money talks. They have to start somewhere. They have SOME good young talent that could start becoming good in the near future.

He basically bashed Pau is that little meeting with his season-ticket holders, basically calling him a playoff loser. Then Pau goes on to be a missing piece that instantly helped LA to the NBA Finals during a time when Kobe was asking for a trade, and they were a first-round-and-out type of team.

Well he WAS a playoff loser, granted he didnt have the best talent around him but he didnt even win a game. None. In regards to him helping the Lakers, Wallace didnt say he sucked. Of course he was good, just not a franchise player. Most important to your point...It is irrelevant to MEM what kind of position the trade puts the Lakers in. MEM isnt contending for a title for the next 3+ years so why should they care? All that MEM cared about was MEM, as they should.

Wallace said partly why he traded away Pau was him playing for Spain in the summer. Well, he traded for his brother who plays just as much for the Spanish national team and has become a building block for them I guess. That was a pathetic reason.

Yeah, I see how that is a BS reason but there are a few things to consider...Pau had injured himself during those games for Spain which put a bitter taste in everybodys mouth in MEM. Second, Marc wasnt really a major focus of the trade. Sure he was a good prospect but that is all he was to them at the time. Their main focus was the money. If Marc turned out to be something of value (which he most certainly has) it would just be icing on the cake. He said it himself he wasnt even planning to come over until he was traded to Memphis, a town he lived in while Pau played there.

He said the phone was ringing off the hook afterward from GMs, essentially meaning that GMs knew they could rip him off if they wanted.

Or that since Pau was gone that nobody was untouchable. I think a GM wouldnt be doing his job well if he didnt make a phone call just to see the motivation and mindset of the other GM was.

All it says is Wallace is a good salesman, but results haven't really proved anything during his GM tenure the past 10 years. Memphis is AT LEAST 3 years away from doing anything remotely of becoming any kind of contender, and by then, they might likely lose Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo.

I dont know who he worked for before but his stay as Memphis GM could be longer than around 2 years since Jerry West was there recently. I agree about your "at least three years" for Memphis...now do you really think it would be any different if Pau was there all this time and three years from now? Just one more reason to trade him for more options in the future.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

McCants? Really? I've seen Rashad McCants play and I can't imagine why anyone would get excited about trading for him. I get it that you're a Minny fan and you'd like to see your team get better by acquiring Wallace, but Collins is less than worthless as a player at this point in his career (I'm not sure you could say he was ever more than that?) while Frye at least is a pretty good outside shooter, who rebounds OK, has a positive history with Larry Brown and he could easily be renounced at the end of the year if Charlotte doesn't want him and would rather get his 4 million QO off of their books. On the other hand, Travis Outlaw may not be a star, but he's consistently put up a PER of 15 almost every year of his career and plays the 3 or the 4; positions of need for Charlotte.

The thing is that McCants is a big fan and front office favorite in Charlotte and a very capable scorer (15ppg as a 6th man). Collins may be worthless as a player...but his 6.5mil that comes off the books this off season isn't. and Charlotte is rebuilding and those teams can always be swayed with draft picks...and Minnesota has a possible 6 in this draft (4 1st Rounders, 2 2nd rounders).

true that I am a big Wolves fan...I do balance things out with team needs as well...I also posted in a Timberwolves thread a three team deal involving Charlotte and Washington. Since I would much rather have Butler in 'Sota. But with Charlotte wanting McCants....this is best possible deal...unless Minnesota goes for Felton instead

 

[Nikolokolus]

True that being a UNC alum is that important....but...having just moved out to the Charlotte area before getting deployed and catching a Minnesota game in Charlotte...their is no doubt that they LOVE McCants over there. His Timberwolves jersey is a big seller in the area as well.

And it's not like McCants is a bad player either...he's scoring 15ppg as a 6th man in Minnesota. He can easily be a 20+ppg starter. And with an expiring 6.5mil and a draft pick....they might not get that much for Wallace from another team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2777

9 points per game on 34% from the field, 25% from three, 1 assist, 1.4 turnovers, in 20 minutes per game? Hey whatever floats Charlotte's boat I guess.

 

[Minstrel]

The thing is that McCants is a big fan and front office favorite in Charlotte and a very capable scorer (15ppg as a 6th man).

He had a career year last year, it appears. This year, he's been awful. He's scoring under 10 PPG on awful efficiency. Not just bad efficiency, terrible efficiency. Last year, McCants was about the caliber of an average starter. He hasn't been that good any other year of his career and this is one of this worst seasons.

I really doubt he has much value, UNC favourite or not.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

He had a career year last year, it appears. This year, he's been awful. He's scoring under 10 PPG on awful efficiency. Not just bad efficiency, terrible efficiency. Last year, McCants was about the caliber of an average starter. He hasn't been that good any other year of his career and this is one of this worst seasons.

I really doubt he has much value, UNC favourite or not.

true that....I'm not trying to sound bias or blind....I'm just stating that they really love him out there and giving that kind of atmosphere and minutes he can be a 20ppg player. And getting a 20ppg scorer (who will get better...last year he was coming off injuries...and this year I'd attribute his slow start to Whittman who just didn't let him play for some reason, he's doing much better under McHale). And what rebuilding team doesn't like cap space and draft picks?

 

[alex42083]

While I agree he's no genius all of what you mentioned above is irrelevant to the Gasol trade.

Why not? He has a history of making bonehead decisions. He suddenly flipped a switch and knows what he's doing?

Yeah I agree those 4 wont go there but there are a whole lot more top quality FA in 2010. Money talks. They have to start somewhere. They have SOME good young talent that could start becoming good in the near future.

No top quality FAs would leave their current teams for..... Memphis. The cap-space plan has been done before and failed several times.

Well he WAS a playoff loser, granted he didnt have the best talent around him but he didnt even win a game. None. In regards to him helping the Lakers, Wallace didnt say he sucked. Of course he was good, just not a franchise player. Most important to your point...It is irrelevant to MEM what kind of position the trade puts the Lakers in. MEM isnt contending for a title for the next 3+ years so why should they care? All that MEM cared about was MEM, as they should.

Fans should care that there isn't an ending in sight for them to be in contention for another three years, and probably more. That won't sell any season tickets for a team struggling financially. OK, so Marc Gasol is a nice rotation player, but not a young prospect that fans will get excited about. Memphis got nobody for a cornerstone player.

Yeah, I see how that is a BS reason but there are a few things to consider...Pau had injured himself during those games for Spain which put a bitter taste in everybodys mouth in MEM. Second, Marc wasnt really a major focus of the trade. Sure he was a good prospect but that is all he was to them at the time. Their main focus was the money. If Marc turned out to be something of value (which he most certainly has) it would just be icing on the cake. He said it himself he wasnt even planning to come over until he was traded to Memphis, a town he lived in while Pau played there.

Pau for cap space. Great, that should put butts in the seats. Oh... Memphis is dead last in attendance so far this season.

Or that since Pau was gone that nobody was untouchable. I think a GM wouldnt be doing his job well if he didnt make a phone call just to see the motivation and mindset of the other GM was.

I dont know who he worked for before but his stay as Memphis GM could be longer than around 2 years since Jerry West was there recently. I agree about your "at least three years" for Memphis...now do you really think it would be any different if Pau was there all this time and three years from now? Just one more reason to trade him for more options in the future.

Or maybe, they wanted to rip him off again, like I said. Wallace made the trade weeks before the trading deadline if I remember, and there were NBA execs questioning why he didn't let other teams make a better offer. Kobe even described it as a "donation." lol.

And months later, Wallace even had his owner -- his boss -- question the move and whether the Grizz got the most out of Gasol:

HE COULDN'T EVEN CONVINCE HIS OWNER IT WAS A GOOD MOVE.

For the first time, even Heisley wondered whether his general manager, Chris Wallace, blew it by caving so soon to the Lakers.

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heisleygasol060308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[Ed O]

Why would Charlotte do that trade? For player that's not as good as him at the same position and Frye?....Doesn't make sense.

I still see the trade to Minnesota making more sense...since charlotte actaully really wants McCants back in Carolina (he's a major fasn favorite there)...not to mention they can get Collins expiring contract and maybe a draft pick as well....much better return

I guess that they might be able to get more for Wallace, but it's clear why they would do it: they get a starting small forward back, they get a rotation big back... and they save millions and millions in salary because both Outlaw and Frye are going to be expiring contract no later than at the end of next season.

Ed O.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

I guess that they might be able to get more for Wallace, but it's clear why they would do it: they get a starting small forward back, they get a rotation big back... and they save millions and millions in salary because both Outlaw and Frye are going to be expiring contract no later than at the end of next season.

Ed O.

I can see how that trade would work, but they have Diaw waiting to fill in at the starting SF and with him making 9mil a season they can't have him riding the pine...so once again Outlaw would be on the bench. Frye would just be let go. Like I said I see how this isn't a bad trade...I still feel it would benefit them more with the 'Sota trade...McCants makes it easier to get rid of Felton who they been shopping around and make room for Diaw at SF....and Collins gives them more in cap room this off season (6.5mil)...and I can't express enough how much a draft pick added to a trade with a rebuilding team can sway the tide.

So head to head the deals kinda shape out as both teams giving cap space (Frye 3.5mil to Collins' 6.5mil)...and then Outlaw against McCants and a 1st Round pick....hmmm...that is a tough trade but they might lean towards the fan favorite player with the added 1st round pick and another 3mil in cap space though.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I can see how that trade would work, but they have Diaw waiting to fill in at the starting SF and with him making 9mil a season they can't have him riding the pine...so once again Outlaw would be on the bench. Frye would just be let go. Like I said I see how this isn't a bad trade...I still feel it would benefit them more with the 'Sota trade...McCants makes it easier to get rid of Felton who they been shopping around and make room for Diaw at SF....and Collins gives them more in cap room this off season (6.5mil)...and I can't express enough how much a draft pick added to a trade with a rebuilding team can sway the tide.

So head to head the deals kinda shape out as both teams giving cap space (Frye 3.5mil to Collins' 6.5mil)...and then Outlaw against McCants and a 1st Round pick....hmmm...that is a tough trade but they might lean towards the fan favorite player with the added 1st round pick and another 3mil in cap space though.

Diaw is primarily a power forward.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

Diaw is primarily a power forward.

yes, for now since Wallace is the SF...but if Wallace is traded...the front three in Charlotte will probably be Nazr Mohammed at Center, Okafor at PF and Diaw at SF....Diaw is versitile enough to play all three front court spots...just because a player primarily plays one position doesn't mean they don't play others....Okafor is primarily a PF but be plays Center as well