GOP 2012 budget to make $4 trillion-plus in cuts

[barfo]

That's like me (who gets paid bi-weekly) saying "I've spent $50 on groceries and $100 on gas filling up the tank this week...but I didn't bring in a dime in income! I'm on the road to ruin!" Nevermind that I'll get paid a full paycheck next week, and I did last week.

The proper metaphor is that it is like your mortgage being sold from one lender to another, and you saying, "geez, these mortgages are killing me! I was paying ABC bank $1000, and now I have to pay DEF bank $1000 too! I can't afford all this extra spending!

barfo

 

[barfo]

Here are the actual numbers for the year 2010, for those clinging to the idea there was something special about March, or that our spending is strongly peaked in March.

Curiously enough, I got this list from the same author as who wrote the article we've been discussing.

2010

January 726.278

February 869.304

March 909.161

April 1,101.309

May 848.648

June 1,046.179

July 1,032.540

August 987.829

September 1,064.800

October 846.304

November 927.843

December 1,021.566

barfo

 

[barfo]

But whether it does or does not, we should be doing whatever we can to lessen those consequences now. And that is my thinking. Why wait until the consequences hit and then see if we can live with them? Not that you advocated that, but we have a responsibility to act.

It's interesting that this topic has people generally on the opposite sides of where they are on global warming, with respect to whether one should take preventative measures now or wait to see what happens.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Sigh. If I give you $1 and Brian gives me $1, what is my cashflow?

I can't believe you are clinging to this dishonest position. The government had $1T in cash out, and $1T in cash in. It's simply a lie to pretend that we spent 5x as much as we took in.

Pretending that paying off debt counts as cash out but borrowing doesn't count as cash in is absurd.

And you know perfectly well that the government buys and sells huge amounts of debt every single month. There isn't anything unusual about this at all.

barfo

Brian giving you $1 is revenue. If he loans you $1 it is not revenue.

If we had a surplus, we'd still be paying off the debt with it.

8X revenue is ridiculous.

I get that you don't see the distinction between revenue and buying on credit.

 

[Denny Crane]

The proper metaphor is that it is like your mortgage being sold from one lender to another, and you saying, "geez, these mortgages are killing me! I was paying ABC bank $1000, and now I have to pay DEF bank $1000 too! I can't afford all this extra spending!

barfo

The proper metaphor is you getting a whole new mortgage each month while taking a bigger mortgage each time and using the cash out to pay for tickets to the circus.

 

[barfo]

The proper metaphor is you getting a whole new mortgage each month while taking a bigger mortgage each time and using the cash out to pay for tickets to the circus.

There is some truth to that. We did borrow a net $80B during March. Not sure if we spent it on the circus or not. You could say we blew it on tax refunds, I guess.

barfo

 

[Ed O]

Pretending that paying off debt counts as cash out but borrowing doesn't count as cash in is absurd.

I don't think so, and I bet that most people would disagree with you. There's nothing dishonest about pointing out that the only way the government stays afloat right now is through loans, and that by staying afloat through loans we are just digging ourselves a deeper hole.

My mixed metaphors aside, I think it's much less honest to pretend like borrowed money and revenues are the same thing.

Ed O.

 

[barfo]

I don't think so, and I bet that most people would disagree with you.

Really? You think paying off debt is cash out and borrowing is not cash in?

There's nothing dishonest about pointing out that the only way the government stays afloat right now is through loans, and that by staying afloat through loans we are just digging ourselves a deeper hole.

There's nothing dishonest about it if you present the numbers in an honest way, which wasn't done here. The truth is we did do $80B in net new borrowing. Had that number been presented, instead of the highly misleading statements about spending 5x revenue, then I would have had no objection.

My mixed metaphors aside, I think it's much less honest to pretend like borrowed money and revenues are the same thing.

Ed O.

But no one was doing that, so why bring it up?

barfo

 

[maxiep]

A few interesting analyses and comparisons

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/paul-ryans-budget-the-path-to-prosperity/?singlepage=true

http://reason.com/blog/2011/04/05/rep-paul-ryans-plan-vs-barack

http://mercatus.org/features/mercatus-scholars-chairman-ryans-budget-plan

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/04/house-republican.html

 

[PapaG]

The GOP's "spending cuts", in comparison form to Obomba's proposal.