Grade Olshey Thus Far As Blazers GM

[BonesJones]

Not sure what you were expecting on the Afflalo move? Actually it was a blessing that he had someone to replace Wes at all? Dude was supposed to bring 10-12 mins off the bench. I guess you are blaming Olshey for a Achilles injury? That year with a healthy Wes and that roster the Blazers might very well have gone deep.

Olshey gets a B from me. Only thing keeping him from an A is a finals appearance and that may very well happen.

I wouldnt say his shot wasnt falling. He had a 55% TS% in February. He was finally starting to breakout and then got stuffed on the bench for a ghy who was very overrated IMO. I dont hate the trade, but it was definitely a mistake, with or without Wes getting hurt.

You dont here of teams trading 1sts AND a good young prospect for 2-month rentals of a bench player.

 

[BonesJones]

Hindsight doesnt make the trade. It was the best move.

It was shitty luck. There is no argument. Hindsight isnt an argument for saying its a mistake when it comes to trades.

Now, lets talk about something that can be argued, since this cant.

This can easily be argued.

 

[BonesJones]

Yep Broken finger and he also was still recovering from the foot injury.
https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2014/11/trail_blazers_backup_guard_cj_mccollum_fractures_f.html

Picking up Afflalo was a good move. CJ had not been playing consistently. His shot was not falling. He had been injured twice and he was pretty much nonexistent on defense.

Did it turn out good? No but Olshey does not deserve blame for the situation. Matter of fact "Hindsight" makes the move even better IMO.

So he was fine 2 months before the deadline...

 

[BonesJones]

Afflalo when we traded for him:
14ppg, 3rpg, 2apg, 53TS%, -1.6DBPM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Hindsight doesnt make the trade. It was the best move.

It was shitty luck. There is no argument. Hindsight isnt an argument for saying its a mistake when it comes to trades.

Now, lets talk about something that can be argued, since this cant.

Hindsight is literally the only way to judge someone in a results based business. It doesn't mean you don't take into account, injuries, bad luck, whatever.

Id argue that the Afflalo trade wasnt that bad, Barton has been an “ok” scorer for Denver and has started at times, but he’s never been anything more than basically a pretty mediocre NBA SG. Afflalo came in, wes got hurt, then Afflalo got hurt too. Injuries dont happen and that whole season wouldve been different.

 

[kjironman1]

You think its good value to trade a first and a good young prospect for a guy who you say was only supposed to play 10 to 12 minutes?

That trade didnt even affect my grade.

I would have given up Victor Claver, T-Rob and Will Barton all day long on that trade. It's been years and we still watch Barton make bonehead (Me First) plays every time he is on the court. Claver and T-Rob i don't even have to explain i assume. Now the pick ended up being protected but of course the the Blazers were good enough late enough that it went to the Nuggets as a number 19 pick for Malik Beasley who did actually start to produce a little last year.

Now lets go situational again. The Blazers at the time when Mathews went down were 41-19 and had a hand at being not only the best team in the entire league but were vying for the top seed in the west. They were on pace to win at least 55 games. They were on a 5 game win streak and had won 9 of the last 12 so in essence that record could very easily been a 60 win team. Now lets just take the game prior to Wes going down. They beat the Clippers in Los Angeles the night before in an OT game that Afflalo played 32 mins and pulled in 6 rebs added 7 points. Played stellar defense on Hedu Turkeyglue (I love spelling that) Arron was a +13 while on the floor.

The point is the Blazers needed him at that point and he was producing exactly what they needed. Barton and CJ and Claver and T-rob were not at all. The Blazers were poised to make a deep run. Neil Olshey put them in the position to do just that. Stotts was using his lineup correctly if wins are a Barometer and we as fans were getting ready to cheer for a championship.
I was at the game when Wes went down. The feeling was pretty much the same as when Nurk went down. But that year Aldridge was the leader or not the leader??? You could just see he quit after the injury. Last year Lillard never quit. No matter what Damian Lillard will not quit on you. That is why he is the leader!

I am going to be very busy today but i want to continue this conversation. If i don't respond quickly it's just because i got things going. I'll be back tonight.

 

[tlongII]

C+

 

[Hoopguru]

B+ - cant think of another team like ours where they lose a good portion of their team and a few stars, and bounce back as quick as we have in contention.
28 out of 35 B or higher this far speaks well.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

B+ - cant think of another team like ours where they lose a good portion of their team and a few stars, and bounce back as quick as we have in contention.
28 out of 35 B or higher this far speaks well.

I also think that having “some” success this year plays a lot into the rating. Honestly last summer at this time Id have given him an overall of like maybe a C, and thats being generous. I think he did quite a few good things this last year that directly correlated to a good playoff run though, I gave him a B- because he managed to do something with the 2016 contracts.

 

[CupWizier]

I wouldnt say his shot wasnt falling. He had a 55% TS% in February. He was finally starting to breakout and then got stuffed on the bench for a ghy who was very overrated IMO. I dont hate the trade, but it was definitely a mistake, with or without Wes getting hurt.

You dont here of teams trading 1sts AND a good young prospect for 2-month rentals of a bench player.

Didn't Denver basically do that? Plumlee and a late 2nd for Nurkic and and a 1st? They clearly over paid for a back up center to be able to retain Plumlee otherwise they would have had just a late 2nd round pick. Affalo might have been re-signed as well if Mathews didn't go down as that changed everything and then Olshey was able to replace 4 starters and still retain a competitive team that continued to make the playoffs.

 

[BonesJones]

Didn't Denver basically do that? Plumlee and a late 2nd for Nurkic and and a 1st? They clearly over paid for a back up center to be able to retain Plumlee otherwise they would have had just a late 2nd round pick. Affalo might have been re-signed as well if Mathews didn't go down as that changed everything and then Olshey was able to replace 4 starters and still retain a competitive team that continued to make the playoffs.

That was a terrible mive value wise for Denver.

Thing is, Plumlee wasnt a rental, he was a RFA after the season and they kept him.

He replaced 4 starters, one with the guard he put a mediocre rental in front of the year before and 3 other role players. I dont think he's done a bad job, I just think that a B or an A wouldve meant getting Dame another legitimate all-star. Probably a hard grade, but its not negative or positive. Hes made mistakes and made some solid moves, but ultimately not the koves thatd make us a front-runner.

 

[BonesJones]

Hindsight is literally the only way to judge someone in a results based business. It doesn't mean you don't take into account, injuries, bad luck, whatever.

Id argue that the Afflalo trade wasnt that bad, Barton has been an “ok” scorer for Denver and has started at times, but he’s never been anything more than basically a pretty mediocre NBA SG. Afflalo came in, wes got hurt, then Afflalo got hurt too. Injuries dont happen and that whole season wouldve been different.

Agree with this. I didnt say it was all that bad, but its still a black mark in terms of howbit played out and how CJ looked ready before and definitely after the Wes injury.

 

[CupWizier]

Agree with this. I didnt say it was all that bad, but its still a black mark in terms of howbit played out and how CJ looked ready before and definitely after the Wes injury.

Why do you keep bringing Afflalo into the discussion if you didn't factor that into your grade? Also, you don't have any idea how much influence Paul Allen had on the contracts of 2016. He could have very well said get them signed when Olshey brought forth the demands from the agents. The reality is, we have had to endure 2 rebuilds during Olshey's tenure here. First one was the Felton era debacle before Olshey got here and then having to replace several players for the first season he was here and after that he has had the Blazers in the playoffs all but his first year and in the WCF without one of our top players (Nurkic) and top bench player out injured (Kanter) being severely hobbled. C is a ridiculous grade as that should be reserved for teams that maybe are competitive but still don't make the playoffs.

 

[BonesJones]

Why do you keep bringing Afflalo into the discussion if you didn't factor that into your grade? Also, you don't have any idea how much influence Paul Allen had on the contracts of 2016. He could have very well said get them signed when Olshey brought forth the demands from the agents. The reality is, we have had to endure 2 rebuilds during Olshey's tenure here. First one was the Felton era debacle before Olshey got here and then having to replace several players for the first season he was here and after that he has had the Blazers in the playoffs all but his first year and in the WCF without one of our top players (Nurkic) and top bench player out injured (Kanter) being severely hobbled. C is a ridiculous grade as that should be reserved for teams that maybe are competitive but still don't make the playoffs.

I don't know why you're reciting what happened as if I don't know

If Olshey couldn't construct a playoff team around the best Blazer ever, then hed deserve far worse than a C.

 

[CupWizier]

I don't know why you're reciting what happened as if I don't know
If Olshey couldn't construct a playoff team around the best Blazer ever, then hed deserve far worse than a C.

Cause I don't know what you do and don't know and this way I know for sure you know now.

 

[wizenheimer]

one thing about using making-the-playoffs as a gauge of the GM....Portland was in the playoffs for 21 straight years and 26 of 27 years. Over that stretch, they won the WCF three times, and the championship. They won 18 playoff series. They had 10 all-stars who appeared in 27 all-star games. They were swept in a playoff series 4 times in 27 years vs the current team having been swept 3 times in 4 years. The standard for a Blazer GM is pretty high

 

[BonesJones]

one thing about using making-the-playoffs as a gauge of the GM....Portland was in the playoffs for 21 straight years and 26 of 27 years. Over that stretch, they won the WCF three times, and the championship. They won 18 playoff series. They had 10 all-stars who appeared in 27 all-star games. They were swept in a playoff series 4 times in 27 years vs the current team having been swept 3 times in 4 years. The standard for a Blazer GM is pretty high

Also, C is a middle grade. The average NBA team makes the playoffs because 16 of 30 make it. So considering Neil was setup with the best or 2nd best Blazer ever, thats not a guage for his performance IMO.

 

[hoopsjock]

one thing about using making-the-playoffs as a gauge of the GM....Portland was in the playoffs for 21 straight years and 26 of 27 years. Over that stretch, they won the WCF three times, and the championship. They won 18 playoff series. They had 10 all-stars who appeared in 27 all-star games. They were swept in a playoff series 4 times in 27 years vs the current team having been swept 3 times in 4 years. The standard for a Blazer GM is pretty high

Also, C is a middle grade. The average NBA team makes the playoffs because 16 of 30 make it. So considering Neil was setup with the best or 2nd best Blazer ever, thats not a guage for his performance IMO.

One thing I think you guys are slightly glossing over is that Olshey has kept his Superstar here in Portland. Most other small market teams have had to deal with their star players wanting out or leaving the first chance they get. I think Olshey deserves a little credit for that.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

One thing I think you guys are slightly glossing over is that Olshey has kept his Superstar here in Portland. Most other small market teams have had to deal with their star players wanting out or leaving the first chance they get. I think Olshey deserves a little credit for that.

Also purely on court ability and talent, Dame is like 3rd or 4th best.

 

[BonesJones]

One thing I think you guys are slightly glossing over is that Olshey has kept his Superstar here in Portland. Most other small market teams have had to deal with their star players wanting out or leaving the first chance they get. I think Olshey deserves a little credit for that.

I don't think Dame stayed here because of Olshey. Dame's a different breed. He could've transferred from Weber State to somewhere bigger and didn't.

 

[CupWizier]

one thing about using making-the-playoffs as a gauge of the GM....Portland was in the playoffs for 21 straight years and 26 of 27 years. Over that stretch, they won the WCF three times, and the championship. They won 18 playoff series. They had 10 all-stars who appeared in 27 all-star games. They were swept in a playoff series 4 times in 27 years vs the current team having been swept 3 times in 4 years. The standard for a Blazer GM is pretty high

okay, the optimistic point of view would be that Olshey has had the Blazers in the playoffs all but one year. His teams have had 2 of the top 10 records in franchise history. We were a 3 seed in consecutive seasons in the extremely tough west. 6 consecutive years of being in the playoffs with 2 three seeds a 4th and a 5th seed. Advanced to the second round 3 of 6 times and 1 wcf appearance.

He also drafted Lillard, McCollum, Collins and Simons which is a pretty good nucleus considering where we were drafting and traded for Nurkic as well as signing Hood and Kanter which was critical to our run last year in the playoffs.

By the way, are you the c- vote?

 

[kjironman1]

So he was fine 2 months before the deadline...

Nah he injured himself two months before. Read it.

I wouldnt say his shot wasnt falling. He had a 55% TS% in February.

So you are gonna try to go with Total shooting percentage instead of simple makes and misses. I just read every box score in Feb 2015.
CJ went 17 of 43 in the 7 games he played. A dismal 39%. He also turned the ball over 7 times on 6 dimes. You destroyed Turner last year for less. CJ was not shooting well at all. He was getting scouted and they were making him take bad shots. Then they were moving on him the second he tried to pass out which was never early enough in the shot clock to do any good. It's not just CJ's misses but the bad offense that was happening when he was on the court. The bad offense was turning into worse defense. These are the same things people have said about CJ for the last three years. There is no question CJ has improved his game dramatically since 2014-15.

Now lets get this straight. I love what CJ brings NOW. But this Idea he was able to step up and take on Championship caliber minutes at that point in his career is a pipe dream at best. We are not even talking about the Ole defense he was putting out there. Just defense alone was enough reason for them to try to shore up that position. Point is trying to say the Afflalo trade was a bad move simply isn't the case.

 

[BonesJones]

Nah he injured himself two months before. Read it.



So you are gonna try to go with Total shooting percentage instead of simple makes and misses. I just read every box score in Feb 2015.
CJ went 17 of 43 in the 7 games he played. A dismal 39%. He also turned the ball over 7 times on 6 dimes. You destroyed Turner last year for less. CJ was not shooting well at all. He was getting scouted and they were making him take bad shots. Then they were moving on him the second he tried to pass out which was never early enough in the shot clock to do any good. It's not just CJ's misses but the bad offense that was happening when he was on the court. The bad offense was turning into worse defense. These are the same things people have said about CJ for the last three years. There is no question CJ has improved his game dramatically since 2014-15.

Now lets get this straight. I love what CJ brings NOW. But this Idea he was able to step up and take on Championship caliber minutes at that point in his career is a pipe dream at best. We are not even talking about the Ole defense he was putting out there. Just defense alone was enough reason for them to try to shore up that position. Point is trying to say the Afflalo trade was a bad move simply isn't the case.

Deadline was Feb 19th. That article from mid-November says hed miss 4 weeks.

 

[BonesJones]

Nah he injured himself two months before. Read it.



So you are gonna try to go with Total shooting percentage instead of simple makes and misses. I just read every box score in Feb 2015.
CJ went 17 of 43 in the 7 games he played. A dismal 39%. He also turned the ball over 7 times on 6 dimes. You destroyed Turner last year for less. CJ was not shooting well at all. He was getting scouted and they were making him take bad shots. Then they were moving on him the second he tried to pass out which was never early enough in the shot clock to do any good. It's not just CJ's misses but the bad offense that was happening when he was on the court. The bad offense was turning into worse defense. These are the same things people have said about CJ for the last three years. There is no question CJ has improved his game dramatically since 2014-15.

Now lets get this straight. I love what CJ brings NOW. But this Idea he was able to step up and take on Championship caliber minutes at that point in his career is a pipe dream at best. We are not even talking about the Ole defense he was putting out there. Just defense alone was enough reason for them to try to shore up that position. Point is trying to say the Afflalo trade was a bad move simply isn't the case.

Eh, my memory was him doing better than that.

He was ready though, just needed some consistency. He proved it that postseason.

 

[Strenuus]

Hindsight is literally the only way to judge someone in a results based business. It doesn't mean you don't take into account, injuries, bad luck, whatever.

Id argue that the Afflalo trade wasnt that bad, Barton has been an “ok” scorer for Denver and has started at times, but he’s never been anything more than basically a pretty mediocre NBA SG. Afflalo came in, wes got hurt, then Afflalo got hurt too. Injuries dont happen and that whole season wouldve been different.

Yep. So why should it be a black mark for olshey?

Because it isn't. So if anyone thinks it is, they are wrong. Simple as that.

 

[wizenheimer]

One thing I think you guys are slightly glossing over is that Olshey has kept his Superstar here in Portland. Most other small market teams have had to deal with their star players wanting out or leaving the first chance they get. I think Olshey deserves a little credit for that.

I'd say that's a lot more because of Dame rather than the GM. Dame is pretty unique

by the way, Drexler was in Portland 12 seasons.

By the way, are you the c- vote?

C+

 

[kjironman1]

Deadline was Feb 19th. That article from mid-November says hed miss 4 weeks.

If you want me to go look at the box scores for the 5th through 8th week i will do that but i'm telling you CJ was not playing well at all through Jan. Then in Feb he started getting minutes But as i already pointed out February was still not a great look either.

Again the point is Neil Olshey was looking at a team that could have possibly made a run at a Chip. He was charged to get a player that could fill the gaps that the roster had. He did that. We are not having this conversation if Mathews stays healthy.
I'm with @Strenuus on this. This discussion is pointless at best to continue.

 

[CupWizier]

Also, C is a middle grade. The average NBA team makes the playoffs because 16 of 30 make it. So considering Neil was setup with the best or 2nd best Blazer ever, thats not a guage for his performance IMO.

A C grade is also in the extreme minority of opinions on this forum as only 2 people voted C or less with over 40 votes tabulated and only 4 total out of all the votes were below B-. Your opinion isn't shared by very many posters.

 

[BonesJones]

If you want me to go look at the box scores for the 5th through 8th week i will do that but i'm telling you CJ was not playing well at all through Jan. Then in Feb he started getting minutes But as i already pointed out February was still not a great look either.

Again the point is Neil Olshey was looking at a team that could have possibly made a run at a Chip. He was charged to get a player that could fill the gaps that the roster had. He did that. We are not having this conversation if Mathews stays healthy.
I'm with @Strenuus on this. This discussion is pointless at best to continue.

You might be right, it was a while ago. He was gwtting healthy DNPs though.

I didn't think people would want to dive so deep into the Afflalo part of my post.

 

[BonesJones]

A C grade is also in the extreme minority of opinions on this forum as only 2 people voted C or less with over 40 votes tabulated and only 4 total out of all the votes were below B-. Your opinion isn't shared by very many posters.

That's fine.