Grade the Blazers Draft

[Nikolokolus]

So are we keeping these guys or what?

Wait a few days (or weeks?) It all depends on whether or not any trades get consumated ... but off-hand I'd say it's damn unlikely that the Blazers carry Roy, Miller, Bayless, Williams, Rudy and Johnson into training camp (and you can scratch Mills off the list as an RFA).

 

[barfo]

I went out and looked at the stats of each of the players Portland drafted in the college post season (NIT for both teams) and against top 25 teams.

The results are pretty fucking depressing.

They all appear to have posted good looking stats due to having poor competition. Whenever they played a good team or the game counted they faded. Williams was the worst, with Babbit the second worst.

The WAC and Conference USA sucked last season and none of these players teams even made the NCAA? Sorry, but if you are going be a quality player in the NBA you should be able to get your team at least into the tournament.

The grade would be a C- for these picks but adding in the KP clusterfuck it's an F.

If you look at successful NBA players from lower-level colleges, do their college stats not show the same effect? [I'm asking, I have no idea of the answer - but it seems possible this is completely normal?]

barfo

 

[RoyToy]

Wait a few days (or weeks?) It all depends on whether or not any trades get consumated ... but off-hand I'd say it's damn unlikely that the Blazers carry Roy, Miller, Bayless, Williams, Rudy and Johnson into training camp (and you can scratch Mills off the list as an RFA).

I hope they keep the Williams guy. Haven't seen much, but I've liked what I've seen. Long and athletic. I likey. Seems like he could have some good potential on defense.

Babbitt seems okay too, but Armon just seems like overkill to me. I suppose he could fill Diener's role.

Come to think of it, the Blazers did carry 3 PGs last year.

Miller/Bayless/Armon
Roy/Williams/Rudy(prob gone)
Batum(35 MPG!)/Babbitt/Cunningham(3 or 4, doesn't really matter)
Aldridge/Pendergraph
Oden/Camby

Joel out for the year

Am I missing anyone?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I hope they keep the Williams guy. Haven't seen much, but I've liked what I've seen. Long and athletic. I likey. Seems like he could have some good potential on defense.

Babbitt seems okay too, but Armon just seems like overkill to me. I suppose he could fill Diener's role.

Come to think of it, the Blazers did carry 3 PGs last year.

Miller/Bayless/Armon
Roy/Williams/Rudy(prob gone)
Batum(35 MPG!)/Babbitt/Cunningham(3 or 4, doesn't really matter)
Aldridge/Pendergraph
Oden/Camby

Joel out for the year

Am I missing anyone?

Yes. CP3 (or Tony Parker)

 

[LameR]

F because of Pritchard. It kinda ruined the whole thing for me to the point where I was thinking about not buying tickets earlier in the day. It's not even necessarily the fact that he was fired, but how he was fired I thought was completely classless.

Also, for me...I overvalue Martell Webster compared to most. I thought he was a good player off of the bench, and filled in admirably in the starting role while Batum was out. A class act as well. That's the kind of guy I want on my team. I don't see Babbit being able to do that, although maybe he can with some more consistency. I think Gomes can fill in decently as well though. Honestly, after that I was lukewarm on watching the rest. Know some but not a ton about Johnson and Williams, but unless we swing another deal (hopefully but not necessarily counting on Paul), I think Babbit over Webster was just an odd move.

Player Moves: Incomplete / C-
Overall: F

EDIT: Also, there is no reason Webster should be gone while Rudy remains, but I don't expect Rudy to be here much longer anyway.

 

[brsinepyce]

If rudy stays, F.

I dont understand why minny wouldnt want rudy over martell. It would be the spanish connection 2.0 (rubio).

We should have offered martell and rudy and JPEC for the rights to rubio.

 

[Drttimmy]

Also, for me...I overvalue Martell Webster compared to most. I thought he was a good player off of the bench, and filled in admirably in the starting role while Batum was out. A class act as well. That's the kind of guy I want on my team. I don't see Babbit being able to do that, although maybe he can with some more consistency. I think Babbit over Webster was just an odd move.

I think the team wanted and needed Martell to be that dependable kickout threat, and he never really became one. He became a better defender, better fullcourt player, rebounder, and even started putting the ball on the floor. But that stuff is just frosting...the Needed him to be their dependable, consistent kickout threat because this team as it's constructed vitally needs one, and it never happened. Not game to game. And he had plenty of chances to prove it.

Course, who knows if Babbit can be, but they probably concluded Martell would never be.

I heard Jaynes complain what happens if Batum goes down again? Martell is probably certainly more able to plug into the role. I just dont think you should construct teams with that always on the mind.

 

[STOMP]

Was hoping for the big trade, so I couldn't give it an A. But I really do like Babbitt. He seems like the pure shooter off the bench we've been needing. I think he'll get some minutes this year. I loved that he didn't bat an eye when an interviewer quoted him as saying he was the best shooter in the draft. He just shrugged and had this look like, "Isn't it obvious?" I love that attitude in a shooter. A completely anti-Webster moment.

I also like the Gomes acquisition.

I really never had a lot of use for Webster, so I don't mind seeing him go.

I like the Gomes acquisition because I expect them to not pick up his option and clear some capspace (thought I heard 4M)... agreed on the rest and gave it a B+ for doing a lot with a little. Their 3 picks were all good sized and superior run/jump athletes which is always a good way to go while Marty's mental flakiness had long worn on me. I was a bit disappointed when Seraphin came off the board though

STOMP

 

[LittleAlex]

If you look at successful NBA players from lower-level colleges, do their college stats not show the same effect? [I'm asking, I have no idea of the answer - but it seems possible this is completely normal?]

barfo

I will have to check it out but it seems to me that they tend to get their mid-major teams into the tournament. Both the WAC and Conference USA have tournaments where the winner goes to the NCAA. Neither Nevada nor Memphis even made it to the finals of their respective conference tournaments.

That tells me that even though they put up good numbers they didn't help their teams win even against inferior competition.

The opposite kid was the dude from Butler, Gordan Haywood. He lead his team to a victory in their conference and got his team to the NCAA where he performed well. Babbit, Williams and the point guard kid all choked in the second round of the NIT.


I have long been of the opinion that no team should ever draft a kid whose team didn't make the NCAA tournament. To be a quality NBA player you best have fucking dominated at the college level. If you didn't, the chances of you being a good player in the NBA are pretty damn bad.
Further, I am no fan of drafting kids from small conferences anyway. Give me a role player from Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, UConn and the like. Pretty much anyone from the Big East, the ACC, the Pac 10, the SEC or the Big 10. The play against the best players in America night in and night out.

Guys like Babbit rolled up big numbers against scrubs who might make a team in the Polish League.

 

[maxiep]

An above average draft, so I gave it a B-

 

[BGrantFan]

Guys like Babbit rolled up big numbers against scrubs who might make a team in the Polish League.

Babbitt against NCAA tournament teams last season, plus UNC because it was at UNC and he went against Ed Davis.

UNLV - 14 pts/10 rb/1 assist
Houston - 14 pts/ 17 rb/ 3 assist
UNC - 15 pts/ 11 rb/ 1 assist
BYU - 20 pts/ 6 rb/ 1 assist
New Mexico State - 26 pts/ 11 rb/ 1 assist
Utah State - 26 pts/ 12 rb/ 1 assist
Utah State - 20 pts/ 9 rb/ 1 assist
New Mexico State 23 pts/ 9 rb/ 1 assist

19.8 ppg/10.6 rpg/1.1 apg

Team was 3-5 in those games.

Not terrible, not great.

 

[BGrantFan]

I do like that he got to the line over 6 times a game. As a 91% shooter, that's damn good to see.

 

[oldmangrouch]

What were the most pressing needs going into the draft?

A long-term replacement for Miller. Nobody available.

A more reliable shooter off the bench. Swapping Webster for Babbitt might not pan out, but it is a reasonable effort.

Improved perimeter defense. Nope.

A long-term replacement for Joel/Camby. Didn't even try.

Overall, a rather "meh" draft. If Rudy is dealt for value and Williams wins a spot in the rotation, that would make it look better.

 

[Minstrel]

What were the most pressing needs going into the draft?

A long-term replacement for Miller. Nobody available.

A more reliable shooter off the bench. Swapping Webster for Babbitt might not pan out, but it is a reasonable effort.

Improved perimeter defense. Nope.

A long-term replacement for Joel/Camby. Didn't even try.

Overall, a rather "meh" draft. If Rudy is dealt for value and Williams wins a spot in the rotation, that would make it look better.

I don't tend to grade drafts based on "team needs addressed" but simply on talented added. To me, the draft is entirely about infusing the team with as much young talent as possible. There are other, more efficient ways (trades, signings) to address needs. (I say "more efficient" because you can adjust what you pay to what you get...in the draft, if you take a lesser talent at a spot over a greater talent, to address need, that's just talent left on the table.)

I think, based on the picks that the Blazers started out with, they did a solid job of adding talent. Hopefully, there will be some moves this summer to address the roster needs.

 

[illmatic99]

I don't tend to grade drafts based on "team needs addressed" but simply on talented added. To me, the draft is entirely about infusing the team with as much young talent as possible. There are other, more efficient ways (trades, signings) to address needs. (I say "more efficient" because you can adjust what you pay to what you get...in the draft, if you take a lesser talent at a spot over a greater talent, to address need, that's just talent left on the table.)

You're a true KP honk, Minstrel.

 

[Minstrel]

You're a true KP honk, Minstrel.

Oh yeah? That's actually been my philosophy for years. I've never believed in drafting for need (except when the talent available is virtually equal).

 

[illmatic99]

Nice.



I wasn't like that before KP.

 

[B-Roy]

Yes. CP3 (or Tony Parker)

Did someone say Chris Paul?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Oh yeah? That's actually been my philosophy for years. I've never believed in drafting for need (except when the talent available is virtually equal).

I actually agree with you, but in this case, I don't see that the Blazers grabbed what was clearly the BPA. Looking at the 20-30 picks, and arguably beyond, I see a bunch of guys who *were* pretty equal.

Edit: Actually, I think the Blazers were influenced by "need", in the sense that they passed on Pondexter and James because they had already made the trade for Babbitt. Just my 2 pennies worth.

 

[Minstrel]

I actually agree with you, but in this case, I don't see that the Blazers grabbed what was clearly the BPA. Looking at the 20-30 picks, and arguably beyond, I see a bunch of guys who *were* pretty equal.

Yeah, to me too. But every year, a bunch of guys seem pretty equal to me and then several of them are much better, several of them are much worse. I was heartened by an NBA front office guy texting Ford and telling him KP got two top-ten guys. My perception is that Babbitt seems to be quite a well-regarded pick for where Portland got him. So that makes it plausible to me that KP got the BPA there.

I dunno about Elliott Williams, but as a high level run-and-jump athlete, he seems like a fine upside pick for later in the draft.

 

[BGrantFan]

Yeah, to me too. But every year, a bunch of guys seem pretty equal to me and then several of them are much better, several of them are much worse. I was heartened by an NBA front office guy texting Ford and telling him KP got two top-ten guys. My perception is that Babbitt seems to be quite a well-regarded pick for where Portland got him. So that makes it plausible to me that KP got the BPA there.

I dunno about Elliott Williams, but as a high level run-and-jump athlete, he seems like a fine upside pick for later in the draft.

I'm still not willing to believe that Williams will be on the roster. Seems like the classic case of drafting a player for another team, especially when Armon Johnson was drafted after him.

Because of this, I haven't done any research on Williams at all.

 

[mgb]

I gave the draft a B-. I would have gave it a higher score except for losing Webster. I was surprise and disappointed we traded him. I would have much rather it been Rudy, but obviously the Wolves was wise enough to pick the better player. While he wasn't a consistent shooter he did improve in other areas which show he worked hard and I felt would eventually be more consistent shooting. I hope he does well except when he plays us.

 

[LameR]

I think the team wanted and needed Martell to be that dependable kickout threat, and he never really became one. He became a better defender, better fullcourt player, rebounder, and even started putting the ball on the floor. But that stuff is just frosting...the Needed him to be their dependable, consistent kickout threat because this team as it's constructed vitally needs one, and it never happened. Not game to game. And he had plenty of chances to prove it.

Course, who knows if Babbit can be, but they probably concluded Martell would never be.

I heard Jaynes complain what happens if Batum goes down again? Martell is probably certainly more able to plug into the role. I just dont think you should construct teams with that always on the mind.

Good points. Thanks for the response.