Grantland's "Summer Winners and Losers"

[maxiep]

I don't think anyone argues that Portland can compete with LA, NY or Miami. The endorsement dollars are just too good, and in the case of FL and TX, there's no state income tax.

My point is that players don't shun Portland because Portland's a shitty place for a black person, so they choose Milwaukee, Salt Lake City or Oklahoma City. If we had the cap space, I think we can certainly compete with all but a handful of teams, and if we ever get really good again, top flight players would be happy to play here. PA doesn't lavish benefits on the players like he used to, but he still has a good reputation.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Brandon Roy? LaMarcus Aldridge? Don't our own players count as free agents?

No, they don't.

 

[maxiep]

No, they don't.

Why not? Weren't they free to leave at the end of their contracts? Weren't they free to not sign a deal with the Blazers so they could move elsewhere? Couldn't have either pushed for a sign and trade?

 

[magnifier661]

Why not? Weren't they free to leave at the end of their contracts? Weren't they free to not sign a deal with the Blazers so they could move elsewhere? Couldn't have either pushed for a sign and trade?

Exactly... But shhhh don't tell anyone because it will blow the argument out of the water

 

[dviss1]

No, they don't.

You can say that but it isn't logical. Brandon Roy was the #3 SG in the league when he resigned with us.
LA was probably the #4-5 PF when he re signed.

Your argument is flawed. Didn't Clyde re-up with us too?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Your original statement (Post #2) was "We have to overpay to lure guys here." That was the statement I (and others) originally challenged. I even asked, "When was the last time Portland overpaid a free agent?"

You then changed the argument to "We can't sign tier 1 or tier 2 free agents, which not only narrows the focus, but also brings in an unreasonably subjective element (What is tier 1, tier 2? Was Hedo tier 1? Was Iggy tier 3?), as well as ignores the cap constraints normally present.

So, exactly what are you arguing? That we have to overpay to get free agents? Or that we only have to overpay big-time talent? Or that we can't get big-time talent even if we do overpay? Or something else entirely? Pick a point and stick with it.

 

[Draco]

It’s pretty difficult and unlikely for any team to sign an elite free agent. Only happens a few times per decade in the league. How many years post Jordan did Chicago strike out on every major free agents? That is supposed to be a desirable NBA city. I think the best one they’ve got is probably an overpaid Boozer. Players mostly want to go where there is the most money and secondly to the best team, then the appeal of the city is 3rd. If a big city was so attractive why haven’t the Clippers signed anyone in their history?

The Lakers signed Shaq, Orlando got Grant Hill and McGrady, Phoenix signed Steve Nash, Miami signed LeBron and Bosh, the Knicks signed Amare and Chandler, the Rockets signed Dwight. Those are the only teams that outright signed likely all-stars as free agents in the last 20 years, it’s very rare. So that is 6 teams out of 30. Looking at history suggests 80% of the league can’t acquire the stud free agents.

 

[Draco]

Post Jordan the Bulls had tons of free agent money almost every offseason; some of their bigger acquisitions were Brent Barry $27 million, Ron Mercer $27 million, Eddie Robinson $32 million, Ben Wallace $60 million, and of course Carlos Boozer $75 million. Those signing have been terrible.

The more I look at teams acquiring free agents the more I convince myself the best way to build a team is through trades. The MVP studs just don’t switch teams in free agency; that’s a pipe dream even for an ideal city like the Lakers or Bulls or Mavs have. So to acquire free agents you have to overpay guys like Iggy or Josh Smith near max level deals to entice them to come to town. How likely is GS or DET to get benefits above the cost of the contract?

 

[oldmangrouch]

I absolutely agree. I mean look at this thread and the irrational fan that doesn't include rfa offers or resigning our own free agents!

C'mon Mags, you're smarter than that.

The whole RFA thing is a scam. You offer the RFA money, if the offer is even remotely reasonable the current team matches, and you get to tell your fans you "tried". Pure PR stunt.

As for re-signing our own FA's......you may have missed all the threads about LMA not being interested in re-signing, even though the Blazers have been paying him quite handsomely.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Listening to reason isn't the problem I am facing, it's arguing with two that wont. No big time free agents have come to Portland. How am I wrong?

Sisyphus would be proud of you.

 

[magnifier661]

C'mon Mags, you're smarter than that.

The whole RFA thing is a scam. You offer the RFA money, if the offer is even remotely reasonable the current team matches, and you get to tell your fans you "tried". Pure PR stunt.

As for re-signing our own FA's......you may have missed all the threads about LMA not being interested in re-signing, even though the Blazers have been paying him quite handsomely.

I guess we will find out wont we? I don't buy into Aldridge wanting out

 

[oldmangrouch]

I guess we will find out wont we? I don't buy into Aldridge wanting out

OK, I'm willing to compromise.

We drop the RFA argument, and I will concede the part about re-signing our own FA.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sisyphus would be proud of you.

I was going for Sisyphus....thanks

 

[Mediocre Man]

OK, I'm willing to compromise.

We drop the RFA argument, and I will concede the part about re-signing our own FA.

It's really totally different.

Once players get here, they seem to like it....at least most of them. It's getting people here that have 29 other options that is the tough part

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's really totally different.

Once players get here, they seem to like it....at least most of them. It's getting people here that have 29 other options that is the tough part

Well, not exactly free agents, but how many players have forced their way to Portland by demanding a trade?

Pippin did it, Kemp (yuck), Steve Smith, Derek Anderson, Rod Stickland (also signed as a free agent, the second time), Damon. Detlef came here twice as a free agent. Brian Grant came here as a free agent. So did Nick Van Exel, Greg Anthony, Juan Dixon, Steve Blake and Joel. Obviously, not all of these are Tier 1 or Tier 2 free agents, but there are VERY few of those who actually change teams. But, there are PLENTY of examples of players coming to Portland because they wanted to be here.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well, not exactly free agents, but how many players have forced their way to Portland by demanding a trade?

Pippin did it, Kemp (yuck), Steve Smith, Derek Anderson, Rod Stickland (also signed as a free agent, the second time), Damon. Detlef came here twice as a free agent. Brian Grant came here as a free agent. So did Nick Van Exel, Greg Anthony, Juan Dixon, Steve Blake and Joel. Obviously, not all of these are Tier 1 or Tier 2 free agents, but there are VERY few of those who actually change teams. But, there are PLENTY of examples of players coming to Portland because they wanted to be here.

BNM

Be cool to have more than 1 example from this century. But like I have already said I have been wrong the entire thread

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Be cool to have more than 1 example from this century. But like I have already said I have been wrong the entire thread

Dorrell wright had an awesome year a couple years ago and is a talented player.

Came here for a great deal and chose us over Okc.

Not a tier 1 or 2 but has proven he can be an ok starter, really good bench player

 

[Boob-No-More]

Be cool to have more than 1 example from this century. But like I have already said I have been wrong the entire thread

I know everyone says Andre Miller was out 3rd choice (after Hedo and Millsap), but he was a top 10 PG and chose to come here.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

I know everyone says Andre Miller was out 3rd choice (after Hedo and Millsap), but he was a top 10 PG and chose to come here.

BNM

After no one else offered him. Yep. I get it. I was wrong

 

[magnifier661]

After no one else offered him. Yep. I get it. I was wrong

Well we tried Milsap; which he signed and Utah matched (strike one). Then we attempted to sign Hedo (strike two). Then we gave an offer to Miller and he accepted (Ironically becoming the best choice from the 3 options).

 

[Draco]

Be cool to have more than 1 example from this century. But like I have already said I have been wrong the entire thread

Jamal Crawford, Wesley Matthews and Andre Miller were acquired in the last four years. Obviously Crawford didn't work out as expected but he was in high demand. Wesley worked out better than expected. I’d say Miller worked at least as well as expected, wish we never let him go.

How many big name free agents have the Lakers, Clippers, Bulls, Mavs, Nets, signed in that period?

I agree all else being equal other markets should have an advantage over Portland in acquiring a stud free agent. But how many teams have first the cap room for a max level free agent, secondly already have players signed on the roster to be a contender, and thirdly are in a significantly more desirable city than Portland?

It is an extremely difficult combo to attain all of those criteria. That is why stud all-stars rarely leave their teams in free agency and that is why I’m not overly concerned with Aldridge or any of our players bolting town in free agency.

 

[Wolvesguy14]

Why not? Weren't they free to leave at the end of their contracts? Weren't they free to not sign a deal with the Blazers so they could move elsewhere? Couldn't have either pushed for a sign and trade?

Bored and randomly looking at forums I posted at a couple of times. The reason it does not count is that most teams do it. Love re-signed with the Wolves. LeBron with Cleveland. Paul with New Orleans. Melo with Denver. So on and so on.

It is almost an unwritten rule amongst the top players. They probably feel that they need to show some loyalty. At least signing one extension and seeing if the team can improve while they are there.

 

[ABM]

They probably feel that they need to show some loyalty. At least signing one extension and seeing if the team can improve while they are there.

Makes total sense.

 

[magnifier661]

Bored and randomly looking at forums I posted at a couple of times. The reason it does not count is that most teams do it. Love re-signed with the Wolves. LeBron with Cleveland. Paul with New Orleans. Melo with Denver. So on and so on.

It is almost an unwritten rule amongst the top players. They probably feel that they need to show some loyalty. At least signing one extension and seeing if the team can improve while they are there.

Good work! It's nice to have a good outlook on the team from a different fans perspective

 

[Mediocre Man]

Good work! It's nice to have a good outlook on the team from a different fans perspective

24 post soon to be dick posting guy gets "good outlook" and 21k post cancer patient guy gets "cranky"


Ya that's right, I played the C patient card

 

[magnifier661]

24 post soon to be dick posting guy gets "good outlook" and 21k post cancer patient guy gets "cranky"


Ya that's right, I played the C patient card

Dude wtf? U always have my respect. Get that shit outta here!

Edit: I hate auto correct

 

[Wolvesguy14]

24 post soon to be dick posting guy gets "good outlook" and 21k post cancer patient guy gets "cranky"


Ya that's right, I played the C patient card

Ain't nobody got time for that... Well... I guess I have all the time in the world to do that. But I won't.

 

[PapaG]

When was the last time Portland was able to sign a tier 1 or 2 free agent?

Wasn't Andre Miller Tier 2? Plus, Millsap signed, and Utah matched.

 

[Draco]

Bored and randomly looking at forums I posted at a couple of times. The reason it does not count is that most teams do it. Love re-signed with the Wolves. LeBron with Cleveland. Paul with New Orleans. Melo with Denver. So on and so on.

It is almost an unwritten rule amongst the top players. They probably feel that they need to show some loyalty. At least signing one extension and seeing if the team can improve while they are there.

The reason players coming off rookie contracts resign has nothing to do with loyalty, its that their team can offer them an extension and if one isn't agreed to then their team holds their restricted free agency rights. The player would have to be willing to take a big pay cut by playing on a small qualifying offer and risk playing two full years without a long term contract to leave the team that drafted them. It never happens because this is the first chance these players have of getting a huge contract and no sane person would take that kind of gamble for $80 million.

Now the signing of the second big contract is a different matter, players can have options written into their first big deal to test free agency and that is when players can leave for another team without potentially losing tons of money.

 

[Boob-No-More]

After no one else offered him. Yep. I get it. I was wrong

Actually, Philly offered him the MLE ( $5.8 million). The Knicks also wanted him, but again only had the MLE to offer.

BNM