Great defenders at guard?

[Rastapopoulos]

We can't guard anyone at guard, or so it seems. Which led me to wonder, who are the best guard defenders in the league, especially defenders who are not otherwise well-known. The All-Defense team this year was a joke: it's as if the pool of candidates was only All-Stars. I want to know players like Eric Snow, who was pretty much only in the league because of his D. The Dennis Rodmans of the guard world. I can't think of anyone outside of Rajon Rondo (and he's going to be an all-star very soon) so help me out with nominations and explanations.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Dahntay Jones, Devin Harris (pre-New Jersey), Kyle Lowry, Kirk Hinrich, Raja Bell ... I'm having trouble coming up with a real definitive list of defenisve specialist guards (I purposely exluded wing defenders who are primarily threes).

Basically defensive minded guards who don't do much else are a rare breed. Aside from Dwayne Wade and Kobe I'm having a hard time thinking of truly elite two way players at the guard positions.

 

[Mediocre Man]

We can't guard anyone at guard, or so it seems. Which led me to wonder, who are the best guard defenders in the league, especially defenders who are not otherwise well-known. The All-Defense team this year was a joke: it's as if the pool of candidates was only All-Stars. I want to know players like Eric Snow, who was pretty much only in the league because of his D. The Dennis Rodmans of the guard world. I can't think of anyone outside of Rajon Rondo (and he's going to be an all-star very soon) so help me out with nominations and explanations.

Great question. I think Portland shoul dbe looking for a smart defender rather than a good one. A player who knows where to push their man, and just has the ability to stay in front, and DEFEND THE DAMN 3 PT LINE.


Hinrich is a good defender, so is Raja Bell

 

[magnifier661]

We can't guard anyone at guard, or so it seems. Which led me to wonder, who are the best guard defenders in the league, especially defenders who are not otherwise well-known. The All-Defense team this year was a joke: it's as if the pool of candidates was only All-Stars. I want to know players like Eric Snow, who was pretty much only in the league because of his D. The Dennis Rodmans of the guard world. I can't think of anyone outside of Rajon Rondo (and he's going to be an all-star very soon) so help me out with nominations and explanations.

Doug Cristie! Now if he was only 8 years younger and somehow we were able to convince him we didn't screw over his good friend Tracy Murry, we would have a shot getting him.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

We can't guard anyone at guard, or so it seems. Which led me to wonder, who are the best guard defenders in the league, especially defenders who are not otherwise well-known. The All-Defense team this year was a joke: it's as if the pool of candidates was only All-Stars. I want to know players like Eric Snow, who was pretty much only in the league because of his D. The Dennis Rodmans of the guard world. I can't think of anyone outside of Rajon Rondo (and he's going to be an all-star very soon) so help me out with nominations and explanations.

The only thing these guys are missing is commitment and the kind of work ethic needed to be successful on that end. Nate doesn't want it hear it and neither does many others but they are not working hard enough for him. I think he has done more preaching yet has received very little result from it.

 

[crowTrobot]

rondo on the 2nd team was a joke.

some of the better defending guards last year stats-wise not named chris paul -

joe johnson, felton, michael redd (surprisingly), sessions, richard hamilton, jameer nelson, augustin, hinrich, delonte west, daequan cook, jamaal crawford, ginobili, barbosa.

 

[RR7]

rondo on the 2nd team was a joke.

some of the better defending guards last year stats-wise not named chris paul -

joe johnson, felton, michael redd (surprisingly), sessions, richard hamilton, jameer nelson, augustin, hinrich, delonte west, daequan cook, jamaal crawford, ginobili, barbosa.

Wow. I'm struggling with mroe than half of those names as some of the better defending guards in the league.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The only thing these guys are missing is commitment and the kind of work ethic needed to be successful on that end. Nate doesn't want it hear it and neither does many others but they are not working hard enough for him. I think he has done more preaching yet has received very little result from it.

There's probably a little bit of that, but at this level of basketball you need guys who have made defense a priority for most of their career to be able to prosecute it efficiently and effectively ... the elephant in the room is that KP hasn't done much to round out this roster with bench guys who make a living off of hustle, defense and toughness; there's too many finesse guys with an offensive oriented game.

It probably won't happen this year, but hopefully things can be tweaked a little in roster composition to make it a little more balanced (ie. the Spurs model of team building).

 

[crowTrobot]

Wow. I'm struggling with mroe than half of those names as some of the better defending guards in the league.

those names are all in the top 1/3 of the league based on opponent PER. obviously that doesn't tell the whole story, but it is interesting.

apparently overrated - rondo, devin harris, andre miller : )

 

[J_Ray]

rondo on the 2nd team was a joke.

some of the better defending guards last year stats-wise not named chris paul -

joe johnson, felton, michael redd (surprisingly), sessions, richard hamilton, jameer nelson, augustin, hinrich, delonte west, daequan cook, jamaal crawford, ginobili, barbosa.

FAIL.

El Matador himself? Half of the people on this list aren't all that great at defending.

Hinrich and Kobe are the first guys that comes to mind as great defenders, but guys like Raja Bell, Dahntay Jones, and even Ronnie Brewer seem to be on that 2nd flight of guys.

 

[Run BJM]

There was a decent crop of defensive role players floating around in free agency this year. Dahntay Jones, Von Wafer, Quinton Ross, Marquis Daniels, Shannon Brown, Keith Bogans. Matt Barnes and Anthony Parker aren't necessarily good defenders but they're decent defensively and great role players who do the little things. This isn't including Artest and Ariza either.

Allegedly Andre Miller, Brandon Roy, and Nic Batum are good defenders though right?

 

[Nikolokolus]

There was a decent crop of defensive role players floating around in free agency this year. Dahntay Jones, Von Wafer, Quinton Ross, Marquis Daniels, Shannon Brown, Keith Bogans. Matt Barnes and Anthony Parker aren't necessarily good defenders but they're decent defensively and great role players who do the little things. This isn't including Artest and Ariza either.

Allegedly Andre Miller, Brandon Roy, and Nic Batum are good defenders though right?

Nic yes (but he's a 3), Brandon maybe (could be but hasn't done it consistently enough), Miller probably not (decent help-side defender in previous years, but not a great man defender).

 

[elcap15]

Hinrich and Duhon
I asked this question like a year ago and these were the names (other than Rondo and CP3) that got tossed around as best defensive PG's

 

[crowTrobot]

El Matador himself?

as a SF crawford had one of the lowest opponent PERs in the league last year (average at SG) on a team with little defensive help. if he's really a terrible defender that must be one hell of a statistical anomaly.

Half of the people on this list aren't all that great at defending.

as noted i'm going by opponent PER, not personal impressions or reputation.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Hinrich and Duhon
I asked this question like a year ago and these were the names (other than Rondo and CP3) that got tossed around as best defensive PG's

So in other words we shouldn't have jumped at the chance of acquiring Miller and waited Hinrich out?

 

[RR7]

Where are you grabbing the opponent PER lists from?

 

[alex42083]

Kyle Lowry

I'm a big fan of Lowry's game for a backup PG. He's hard-nosed, plays good D and is capable of hitting an outside shot. He was just stuck on a crappy Memphis team for awhile but he would've been a nice backup PG here behind Blake if we went that route.

 

[hasoos]

I have always thought Deron Williams of Utah to be a pretty good defender at the point. He always seems to get the better of Chris Paul anyhow.

 

[BenDavis503]

Here is an okay point of reference for that.

http://www.nba.com/history/awards_defensiveteams.html

One player I think is underrated as a defender is Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. Although he is not a guard.

 

[Run BJM]

I'm a big fan of Lowry's game for a backup PG. He's hard-nosed, plays good D and is capable of hitting an outside shot. He was just stuck on a crappy Memphis team for awhile but he would've been a nice backup PG here behind Blake if we went that route.

Lowry is a fucking STUD. Even in his Nova days when Randy Foye, Allan Ray, and that other white guard were getting all the publicity he was the guy running the point and the only one getting dribble penetration. Hes one of my favorite players in the league.

 

[bobf]

My adjusted +/- linear regression has Westbrook as a very good defender (but that's based on small sample for him as it really takes 3 years of data to reduce the noise).

Sad thing is... Miller's defense is way down there with Nash, Blake. And that's based on 4 seasons unweighted so since he's getting older it's probably worse than even that. Roy's not so good either.

BTW Mbah a Moute, Luc comes in as the 10th best defender on the list, one spot better than Joel.

Westbrook -3.5
Iguodala -3.4
Battier -3.2
Rondo -3.2
Claxton -3.0
Harris -2.7
Kidd -2.7
Fisher -2.2
Bell -2.0
Farmar -1.8
Lowry -1.7
Paul -1.5
Parker -1.2
Davis -1.2
Ginnoboli -1.2
...
...
Roy +1.2
...
...
Miller +2.1
Nash + 2.4
Blake +2.4
Sessions +2.4
Rose +2.6
Calderon +3.1
Rodriguez +4.9

 

[B-Roy]

I love the shot at Sergio.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Perhaps we see now why the Blazers didn't exactly jump at the chance to sign Sessions. And it's reassuring to see that my impression that Paul shouldn't've been anywhere near first team defense is backed up by these numbers. Claxton must be a product of noise - and surely that's not Baron Davis? Also the Fisher number is, well, fishy.

 

[bobf]

I love the shot at Sergio.

Well, I felt I had to show where it bottoms out.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm a big fan of Lowry's game for a backup PG. He's hard-nosed, plays good D and is capable of hitting an outside shot. He was just stuck on a crappy Memphis team for awhile but he would've been a nice backup PG here behind Blake if we went that route.

What a shame Houston picked him up. Damn that Daryl Morey (or whatever his name is). I think Houston are being seriously underrated: I predict they'll do better than New Orleans and possibly even Denver, who I think are set to nosedive.

 

[bobf]

Perhaps we see now why the Blazers didn't exactly jump at the chance to sign Sessions. And it's reassuring to see that my impression that Paul shouldn't've been anywhere near first team defense is backed up by these numbers. Claxton must be a product of noise - and surely that's not Baron Davis? Also the Fisher number is, well, fishy.

Claxton hasn't played enough either... stderror is about 2.1 so he could still be below average... same with Westbrook.

Even the ones with 4 full seasons of data you're going to have anomalies (off by 2-3 points) every 20th player or so. That's the main problem with +/- it takes too much data so there will always be outliers. The problem with PER though is it basically hardly measures defense & intangibles at all.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm a big fan of Lowry's game for a backup PG. He's hard-nosed, plays good D and is capable of hitting an outside shot. He was just stuck on a crappy Memphis team for awhile but he would've been a nice backup PG here behind Blake if we went that route.

I like Lowry too, but he can't shoot for shit from outside, he's almost purely a driver ... but regardless, I think Morey got a steal when he stole him from Memphis.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Boubois from Dallas.

Flynn is a pesky defender.

Rondo, obviously.

Westbrook