Great job Joe Cronin

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Mediocre Man said:
Joe improved this franchise when he traded Dame. It sucks ass he got hurt, but imagine had we held onto him and didn’t get Camara, Deni, Scoot, Clingan and all the picks.
Kudos, Joe. Dame should never have demanded a trade
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Bolded is the only part I disagree with. In his position where a great career was winding down and the roster was no where close to competing, I don't blame him for forcing his way out. How he did it sure wasn't to my liking as a Blazer fan though and in general I thought his side handled their business poorly. Sitting on the fence to make it seem like he might stay so as to help his buddy Grant secure a ridiculous max deal and then immediately demanding the trade to only Miami seemed spiteful/completely selfish actions. Specifying only the Heat as a trade destination sullied his loyalty reputation not just here... heck I live in the Bay where he's from and local sports talk was killing him for weeks.

Joe has managed to navigate matters quite well since then and I have real hope as a Blazer fan for the first time in a decade plus... definitely he deserves credit for turning this around. Best of luck to Dame going forward including a speedy and complete recovery

STOMP
 
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My first thought when getting the text about Dame 'possibly' tearing his achilles, was damn that's too bad for him. That thought immediately followed by, how does this help the Blazers and those draft picks? Call me cold hearted, I can live with that, but if you are in a Trail Blazers fan forum, than I expect you are a fan of the TRAIL BLAZERS! I get that many choose Dame over team and if not, than it's a 1A/1B scenario for many of you. The guy didn't die, he wasn't in some life threatening situation, he tore is achilles. Hell I would have felt like @Mediocre Man was more of an ass if he did this after the blood clots situation, but a basketball injury is a basketball injury. I only wonder if Dame is out for next year, does that kick start the Milwaukee rebuild this summer by trading Giannis and can they get back to respectability by 28?
 
STOMP said:
Bolded is the only part I disagree with. In his position where a great career was winding down and the roster was no where close to competing, I don't blame him for forcing his way out. How he did it sure wasn't to my liking as a Blazer fan though and in general I thought his side handled their business poorly. Sitting on the fence to make it seem like he might stay so as to help his buddy Grant secure a ridiculous max deal and then immediately demanding the trade to only Miami seemed spiteful/completely selfish actions. Specifying only the Heat as a trade destination sullied his loyalty reputation not just here... heck I live in the Bay where he's from and local sports talk was killing him for weeks.

Joe has managed to navigate matters quite well since then and I have real hope as a Blazer fan for the first time in a decade plus... definitely he deserves credit for turning this around. Best of luck to Dame going forward including a speedy and complete recovery

STOMP
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I was fine with Dame wanting out. But the one team trade demand and toxic communication was the ridiculous part. There was no need for him or his minions to go scorched earth to the Blazers organization.

He always said he would act differently, quietly, and respectfully if the day came to leave Portland. Said that set him apart from all other NBA stars. Then when it came to his time - he was as bad or worse than all the other entitled NBA stars he spent over a decade criticizing.

Thankfully Cronin didn't give into his ridiculous demands. It ultimately got Dame nothing but a tarnished legacy.
 
bigbailes said:
My first thought when getting the text about Dame 'possibly' tearing his achilles, was damn that's too bad for him. That thought immediately followed by, how does this help the Blazers and those draft picks? Call me cold hearted, I can live with that, but if you are in a Trail Blazers fan forum, than I expect you are a fan of the TRAIL BLAZERS! I get that many choose Dame over team and if not, than it's a 1A/1B scenario for many of you. The guy didn't die, he wasn't in some life threatening situation, he tore is achilles. Hell I would have felt like @Mediocre Man was more of an ass if he did this after the blood clots situation, but a basketball injury is a basketball injury. I only wonder if Dame is out for next year, does that kick start the Milwaukee rebuild this summer by trading Giannis and can they get back to respectability by 28?
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You know your post has me wondering if this Dame injury actually could HURT the Blazers picks they are owed from the Bucks.

If Dame was healthy next year the Bucks probably run the group back, and maybe even run it back two years until Dame's contract ends. Giannis would have been older and would fetch far less in a trade. The Bucks could have been stuck where those 2028-2030 picks were pinned at the top of the draft with no options.

But this summer Giannis will be able to fetch much more in a trade and it seems very plausible if not likely the Bucks will pivot to that direction. They have no way to construct a contender around Giannis with that Dame supermax contract and few other trade assets.

Trading Giannis this summer could get the Bucks rebuild going far sooner - so they instead become a respectable team by 2028-2030. In that case the picks the Blazers hold might only be in the middle of the draft.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I was fine with Dame wanting out. But the one team trade demand and toxic communication was the ridiculous part. There was no need for him or his minions to go scorched earth to the Blazers organization.

He always said he would act differently, quietly, and respectfully if the day came to leave Portland. Said that set him apart from all other NBA stars. Then when it came to his time - he was as bad or worse than all the other entitled NBA stars he spent over a decade criticizing.

Thankfully Cronin didn't give into his ridiculous demands. It ultimately got Dame nothing but a tarnished legacy.
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That was my issue too. I was fine with him wanting to try elsewhere, but dude spent 11 years selling a yarn and then in a matter of a week burned that yarn to the ground.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
You know your post has me wondering if this Dame injury actually could HURT the Blazers picks they are owed from the Bucks.

If Dame was healthy next year the Bucks probably run the group back, and maybe even run it back two years until Dame's contract ends. Giannis would have been older and would fetch far less in a trade. The Bucks could have been stuck where those 2028-2030 picks were pinned at the top of the draft with no options.

But this summer Giannis will be able to fetch much more in a trade and it seems very plausible if not likely the Bucks will pivot to that direction. They have no way to construct a contender around Giannis with that Dame supermax contract and few other trade assets.

Trading Giannis this summer could get the Bucks rebuild going far sooner - so they instead become a respectable team by 2028-2030. In that case the picks the Blazers hold might only be in the middle of the draft.
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Yeah, I had been wondering this myself since last season when Dame and Giannis didn't seem to pair well. If they rebuild too early it could weaken that draft pick. Now with Dame's injury that path may be all but decided on.
 
Chris Craig said:
Yeah, I had been wondering this myself since last season when Dame and Giannis didn't seem to pair well. If they rebuild too early it could weaken that draft pick. Now with Dame's injury that path may be all but decided on.
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OKC would be interesting. They have lots of future picks. They also have the matching contracts with Hartenstein and Joe (or Dort)
 
Natebishop3 said:
A big part of the future of this team hinges on the Bucks being bad between 2028-2030. Dame getting hurt plays a big part of how that future is shaped. I think it's normal for Blazer fans to talk about how his injury impacts our team.
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I don't believe Dame's injury has much to do with 2028-2029-2030 Milwaukee picks. The final year of his extension is 2026-27. He'd be 37 years old, even without the injury, and might not have even re-signed with the Bucks

the bigger issue is the status of Giannis. If he demands a trade this summer, Milwaukee might actually get a godfather package and who know how rapidly they could rebuild. There would be 3 seasons between this summer and the 2028 swap; and 4 seasons between this summer and the 2029 pick. A lot can happen in that amount of NBA time...for both teams

edit: saw in your follow-up post you wondered the same thing. Not sure an accelerated timeline for a Milwaukee rebuild will be good for Portland
 
SharpesTriumph said:
You know your post has me wondering if this Dame injury actually could HURT the Blazers picks they are owed from the Bucks.

If Dame was healthy next year the Bucks probably run the group back, and maybe even run it back two years until Dame's contract ends. Giannis would have been older and would fetch far less in a trade. The Bucks could have been stuck where those 2028-2030 picks were pinned at the top of the draft with no options.

But this summer Giannis will be able to fetch much more in a trade and it seems very plausible if not likely the Bucks will pivot to that direction. They have no way to construct a contender around Giannis with that Dame supermax contract and few other trade assets.

Trading Giannis this summer could get the Bucks rebuild going far sooner - so they instead become a respectable team by 2028-2030. In that case the picks the Blazers hold might only be in the middle of the draft.
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They won’t be respectable for a long while; their roster has real weaknesses that go deep, their coaching is an absolute joke and their front office made all those idiotic moves on purpose. They have garbage draft position this summer and Giannis might not even get them that much further along in the rebuild. He was drafted in 2013 and has some serious mileage on him. They haven’t drafted a player with a positive VORP since 2018, and that guy is on the Timberwolves right now.

I wouldn’t worry about the Bucks being good in 2028. I wouldn’t worry about them being good in 2035, to be honest.
 
Everything Beagle said:
They won’t be respectable for a long while; their roster has real weaknesses that go deep, their coaching is an absolute joke and their front office made all those idiotic moves on purpose. They have garbage draft position this summer and Giannis might not even get them that much further along in the rebuild. He was drafted in 2013 and has some serious mileage on him. They haven’t drafted a player with a positive VORP since 2018, and that guy is on the Timberwolves right now.

I wouldn’t worry about the Bucks being good in 2028. I wouldn’t worry about them being good in 2035, to be honest.
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Yeah, but we as Blazer fans need them to be really bad, not just bad. Otherwise, the unprotected part is useless. We want them to be the bottom 3 that year. So the longer they wait to rebuild, the better.
 
Everything Beagle said:
They won’t be respectable for a long while; their roster has real weaknesses that go deep, their coaching is an absolute joke and their front office made all those idiotic moves on purpose. They have garbage draft position this summer and Giannis might not even get them that much further along in the rebuild. He was drafted in 2013 and has some serious mileage on him. They haven’t drafted a player with a positive VORP since 2018, and that guy is on the Timberwolves right now.

I wouldn’t worry about the Bucks being good in 2028. I wouldn’t worry about them being good in 2035, to be honest.
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it only took OKC 3 seasons to climb from 22 to 40 wins; and 4 seasons to climb from 22 to 57 wins. . For Milwaukee, it's 3 seasons till the 2028 swap; and 4 seasons till the 2029 pick. Obviously, OKC is kind of an extreme example. But they pivoted quickly from a Paul George trade. If Milwaukee trades Giannis this summer, they might pivot pretty quickly too because of what they might get for him

I think it probably not going to be that accelerated, but 4 seasons is a long time in the NBA
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yeah, but we as Blazer fans need them to be really bad, not just bad. Otherwise, the unprotected part is useless. We want them to be the bottom 3 that year. So the longer they wait to rebuild, the better.
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yep

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the issue with those Milwaukee picks was always the time lag. The 2028 swap was 5 years out and Portland's pick was encumbered already; The 2029 pick was 6 years out; the 2030 pick was 7 years out. 5-7 years is a long time in the NBA and a lot of different things can happen to the two teams involved
 
wizenheimer said:
yep

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the issue with those Milwaukee picks was always the time lag. The 2028 swap was 5 years out and Portland's pick was encumbered already; The 2029 pick was 6 years out; the 2030 pick was 7 years out. 5-7 years is a long time in the NBA and a lot of different things can happen to the two teams involved
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The time lag was a big advantage of those picks - not an "issue". Milwaukee had won 50-60 games the prior 5 years - so we didn't want picks or swaps while Dame was seemingly still at an All-NBA level and Giannis was barely in his 30's - and the Blazers were tanking.

Turns out that Bucks team has been much worse than expected and Dame was way overrated though.
 
wizenheimer said:
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it only took OKC 3 seasons to climb from 22 to 40 wins; and 4 seasons to climb from 22 to 57 wins. . For Milwaukee, it's 3 seasons till the 2028 swap; and 4 seasons till the 2029 pick. Obviously, OKC is kind of an extreme example. But they pivoted quickly from a Paul George trade. If Milwaukee trades Giannis this summer, they might pivot pretty quickly too because of what they might get for him

I think it probably not going to be that accelerated, but 4 seasons is a long time in the NBA
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I agree with the part that its very difficult to project teams past 3 years from now.

However OKC has had a boatload of extra 1st round picks - conversely the Bucks don't own their own let alone others until 2031. OKC had a lot of other young talent that the Bucks don't have. Giannis might be worth a haul, but that Paul George haul the Thunder got was one of the biggest in NBA history.

I think we all agree its unlikely the Bucks or any team have a rebuild like the Thunder have. But the Bucks could go from the lottery to playoff like the Magic/Pistons have done and then those picks we hold are just average draft picks - not a top of the lottery golden ticket we're hoping for.
 
Everything Beagle said:
They won’t be respectable for a long while; their roster has real weaknesses that go deep, their coaching is an absolute joke and their front office made all those idiotic moves on purpose. They have garbage draft position this summer and Giannis might not even get them that much further along in the rebuild. He was drafted in 2013 and has some serious mileage on him. They haven’t drafted a player with a positive VORP since 2018, and that guy is on the Timberwolves right now.

I wouldn’t worry about the Bucks being good in 2028. I wouldn’t worry about them being good in 2035, to be honest.
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Yeah as others have pointed out the Bucks can still be disappointing but not one of the worst 5 teams in the NBA where we get a prime lottery ticket.

It actually super rare to have a team finish in the top5 of the lottery while not controlling their draft pick at all. Most lottery teams have an incentive to tank so prioritize young guys over wins. A team without the benefit of their own pick doesn't have that so they'll play guys that get wins - especially late in the season. The Nets picks that led to Brown then Tatum on the Celtics are about the only ones I can remember in the last 30 years where this happened.

So even if much of what your saying is true and the Bucks are losing - that doesn't mean were getting a great lottery pick from them.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
The time lag was a big advantage of those picks - not an "issue". Milwaukee had won 50-60 games the prior 5 years - so we didn't want picks or swaps while Dame was seemingly still at an All-NBA level and Giannis was barely in his 30's - and the Blazers were tanking.

Turns out that Bucks team has been much worse than expected and Dame was way overrated though.
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disagree....the time lag was always a big issue because assumptions about where any NBA team could be in 5 years are dubious, at best.

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a lot can happen to a team in 5 seasons. Milwaukee trading Giannis and starting a rebuild this summer might not be a good thing for Portland
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yeah, but we as Blazer fans need them to be really bad, not just bad. Otherwise, the unprotected part is useless. We want them to be the bottom 3 that year. So the longer they wait to rebuild, the better.
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We don't need anything. That the picks are unprotected is nice, but realistically it was always a bonus, the idiot frosting on the moron cake their front office gave us. We would have traded Dame for protected picks. Also, even if they have the worst record in the league that year, the average pick they'd give us is 3.7, which means more likely outside the top 3 than inside it.

What it does mean is that, however good or bad they are in 2028, they will not improve through the draft for three years. It was a frankly immoral trade. We fleeced them. They will be pretty bad in 2028, because a front office is stupid enough to completely fuck the team like that isn't smart enough to rebuild by 2028. And they will stay bad in 2029 and 2030 because we own their picks.

I promise you, we will be just fine. We will be drafting top 10 talent for three straight years while being a solid playoff team. That's fucking insane. Being mad about it not being top 3 is not a useful way to expend your energy.
 
wizenheimer said:
disagree....the time lag was always a big issue because assumptions about where any NBA team could be in 5 years are dubious, at best.

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a lot can happen to a team in 5 seasons. Milwaukee trading Giannis and starting a rebuild this summer might not be a good thing for Portland
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Now show me the ones where the front office was stupid enough to trade three first round picks in a row.
 
https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Bucks/17/draft-picks

Look at this shit. Like, really look at it.

They don't own a first round pick this summer. New Orelans can swap their 2026 pick next summer, and their 2027 pick the summer after that. They leveraged everything and lost. They are not pulling off a smart, efficient rebuild in five years. They might not be able to really rebuild until 2031.
 
wizenheimer said:
yep

View attachment 73583

the issue with those Milwaukee picks was always the time lag. The 2028 swap was 5 years out and Portland's pick was encumbered already; The 2029 pick was 6 years out; the 2030 pick was 7 years out. 5-7 years is a long time in the NBA and a lot of different things can happen to the two teams involved
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This is why I think the team that would value them the most is Milwaukee.
 
Everything Beagle said:
We don't need anything. That the picks are unprotected is nice, but realistically it was always a bonus, the idiot frosting on the moron cake their front office gave us. We would have traded Dame for protected picks. Also, even if they have the worst record in the league that year, the average pick they'd give us is 3.7, which means more likely outside the top 3 than inside it.

What it does mean is that, however good or bad they are in 2028, they will not improve through the draft for three years. It was a frankly immoral trade. We fleeced them. They will be pretty bad in 2028, because a front office is stupid enough to completely fuck the team like that isn't smart enough to rebuild by 2028. And they will stay bad in 2029 and 2030 because we own their picks.

I promise you, we will be just fine. We will be drafting top 10 talent for three straight years while being a solid playoff team. That's fucking insane. Being mad about it not being top 3 is not a useful way to expend your energy.
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I agree with what you said except the last line. Who the fuck is mad? I am just saying that to get the most out of the trade, the longer they wait to rebuild, the better IMO. Yes, either way, their pick is valuable. But just like this year, getting a decent shot at the #1 pick is always preferred. Of course, if we trade it, it becomes moot.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I agree with what you said except the last line. Who the fuck is mad? I am just saying that to get the most out of the trade, the longer they wait to rebuild, the better IMO. Yes, either way, their pick is valuable. But just like this year, getting a decent shot at the #1 pick is always preferred. Of course, if we trade it, it becomes moot.
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It was more generally directed; I'm sorry I misjudged your emotions. I took the bold "need" in your post to be an emotional intensifier.
 
Also, Dame is on contract next year and has a 58 million dollar player option two years from now... you better fucking believe he won't retire until he can get that last extension. Giannis has a big player option in two years too. That team is hamstrung.
 
Everything Beagle said:
https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Bucks/17/draft-picks

Look at this shit. Like, really look at it.

They don't own a first round pick this summer. New Orelans can swap their 2026 pick next summer, and their 2027 pick the summer after that. They leveraged everything and lost. They are not pulling off a smart, efficient rebuild in five years. They might not be able to really rebuild until 2031.
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The Nets weren't in a terribly different place a few years ago, then flipped Durant for 4 picks+Bridges, then flipped Bridges for 5 picks.

The Bucks rebuild in the next 3-4 years almost entirely comes down to what they get in return for Giannis.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
The Nets weren't in a terribly different place a few years ago, then flipped Durant for 4 picks plus Bridges then flipped Bridges for 5 picks.

The Bucks rebuild in the next 3-4 years almost entirely comes down to what they get in return for Giannis.
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That's only if Jon fucking Horst can get savvy value for a vet that is reaching overpriced status, and receive picks from a team that's going to get better because Giannis is on their team. No, I don't think Milwaukee is getting out of this looking good.
 
Look at how bleak the Clippers future looked the prior 1-2 years? While probably not great today, its much better.

Lakers had hit a goldmine with the Luka trade. Conversely Dallas went from a likely decade of being a contender to a horrible future in 2 months.

Phoenix looks really bad right now as well.

6ers went from the #1 offseason to one of the worst futures too.

The outlook of NBA rosters can swing a lot in one season - and exponentially more in 3-4 years.
 
We would be good trade partners for Mil. I honestly don’t see Giannis agreeing to come to Portland after being in Mil his entire career though(think he’d want to try a big market). Also, would we want to give up a bunch for a 31 year old Giannis whose game is all built on athleticism?
 
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