Great stats in Mike Barrett's blog

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KingSpeed

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*Blazers have led by 29+ in each of our blowout wins over San Antonio, Phoenix, Utah, and the Lakers. Unbelievable.

*In the last 30 years of the league, only two teams playing 4 rookies at least 50 games have finished 10 games over .500. No team that has played 4 rookies at least 50 games has finished 20 games over .500.
 
It's an interesting "stat" and another way to illustrate how young AND good this team is, but the whole 50 games played thing is a little deceptive. Yeah, Bayless has played 50 games, but only 631 minutes. Yes, he's a rookiem but he's not part of the regular rotation.

The most recent young team that had some success playing four rookies big minutes was the 2004-05 Bulls. They had four rookies (Gordon, Nocioni, Deng and Duhon) that played over 1600 minutes, including two that played over 2000, and finished 47 - 35. The Blazers have a better record, but are less reliant on their rookies than that Bulls team was. The Blazers will only end up with one rookie (Rudy) playing over 1600 minutes compared to the 4 Bulls.

Not that I'd trade our roster for those Baby Bulls, just pointing out how this "stat" doesn't show the whole picture.

BNM
 
Our domination of some very good to great teams, at home this month has been incredible. It is exciting to see that kind of domination and explosiveness, knowing how young this team is. :clap:
 
I think the rookie stat is a little misleading and meaningless, mostly because it seems unlikely few teams in league history have actually had 4 rookies to field in a given game, which makes the sample size for comparison pretty damn small. And like BNM said, Bayless can barely be said to be part of the rotation.

Whatever the case, this is a helluva young roster that is well ahead of the curve of expected performance, and they've impressed me even more by stepping up their game at the end of the season when it matters the most (especially Nicolas and Greg).
 
I think the rookie stat is a little misleading and meaningless, mostly because it seems unlikely few teams in league history have actually had 4 rookies to field in a given game, which makes the sample size for comparison pretty damn small. And like BNM said, Bayless can barely be said to be part of the rotation.

Whatever the case, this is a helluva young roster that is well ahead of the curve of expected performance, and they've impressed me even more by stepping up their game at the end of the season when it matters the most (especially Nicolas and Greg).


What are you smoking? I have seen plenty of teams, mostly bottom feeders, put teams out with 4 rookies getting playing time.
 
Also on the 4 rookies topic, two of them are arguably second year players. Just took them a year to suit up... It's not like we're talking 2nd round long shots that surprisingly panned out... Oden and Rudy were as close to can't miss as anyone you're likely to find. The fact that they're rookies in the same year as Batum and Bayless is fairly coincidental.
 
How is Greg a 2nd year player?
 
It's an interesting "stat" and another way to illustrate how young AND good this team is, but the whole 50 games played thing is a little deceptive. Yeah, Bayless has played 50 games, but only 631 minutes. Yes, he's a rookiem but he's not part of the regular rotation.

The most recent young team that had some success playing four rookies big minutes was the 2004-05 Bulls. They had four rookies (Gordon, Nocioni, Deng and Duhon) that played over 1600 minutes, including two that played over 2000, and finished 47 - 35. The Blazers have a better record, but are less reliant on their rookies than that Bulls team was. The Blazers will only end up with one rookie (Rudy) playing over 1600 minutes compared to the 4 Bulls.

Not that I'd trade our roster for those Baby Bulls, just pointing out how this "stat" doesn't show the whole picture.

BNM
The Baby Bulls had everyone excited. That they had 4 rookies making big contributions, PLUS much of the rest of their team were very young: Hinrich 24; Curry 22; Chandler 22. The Baby Bulls was an apt moniker and their 47 wins was impressive.

But I don't think 47 wins in the East is anywhere near the accomplishment of 50ish wins in the West.

Also, I think the Blazers overall are on par with those Baby Bulls in terms of overall experience level.

Both teams had 9 players with 1,000 plus minutes. Let's concentrate on that 9 man rotation.

Bulls average age: 24.7
Blazers average age: 23.8

Bulls total years NBA experience: 26
Blazers total years NBA experience: 24

Antonio Davis, who was very important to that team as the vet leader, aged 36, does skew their numbers. Even factoring that, the youth and experience of the two teams looks to me to be roughly the same.

Other notes: Both teams had an experienced Euro "Rookie".

Both teams had two old guys (Davis, Harrington and Blake, Pryz).

Both teams had two rookie PGs who weren't very good (yet). The difference? We mostly sit Bayless down. They played Duhon big minutes as they had little choice.

Both teams had 10th & 11th men who got between 600 and 1,000 minutes. The difference? Our guys - Bayless and Frye pretty much have sucked (this season) and have not contributed to victories. Win Shares combined; 0.7. And Bayless is a prospect who is part of our "assets" for the future. The Bulls 10th & 11th guys were 30+ year old vets who won games for that team even in limited minutes. Piatkowski and Griffin had Win Shares combined of 3.6. Makes our 50ish wins even more impressive when you realize McMillian doesn't even have a Piatkowski or Griffin caliber vet on the bench to turn to when the need arises.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2005.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2009.html

The difference between these two very youthful and successful teams?

The Blazers are already a much better team at the same stage than those Bulls. And they way the Blazers win is much more promising. Blazers have an excellent and methodical offense (Offensive Rating No. 1, Pace Factor 30th) that should translate long-term to quality playoff basketball.

The Bulls hung their hat on defense (Defensive Rating 2nd), hustle and outworking the other team. Great defense is great for playoff basketball, but the constant hustle wears thin over time. Their offense was terrible (Offensive Rating 26th) and they had trouble improving it without affecting their "hustle" and defense or trading away core youth.

I think the Blazers will find an easier time improving their already not so atrocious defense (Defensive Rating 18th) than the Bulls did trying to improve their offense. Just having Oden and Batum play big minutes in the coming years will make a huge improvement. If we can add a PG who can slow ball, plus factor in the expected normal NBA experience improvment in defense for Aldridge, Roy, Rudy, Webster and Bayless, and good team defense should happen.
 
This is slightly off-topic for this thread, but if the Blazers finish 51-31, everyone would say that's 20 games above .500. However, .500 for 82 games is 41, so shouldn't that only be 10 games above .500? I understand 51-31=20, but tell me where my logic is off.
 
No, I would say we finished 10 games over 500.
 
.500 is the same number of games won as lost. 12 wins, 12 losses is .500 ball. 41 wins, 41 losses is a .500 season. 51 is 20 games more than .500 since 31-31 would be .500. see?
31-31 = 62, so that makes zero sense to me.

If we finish 51-31, and 41-41 is .500, to me we are 10 games above .500 (51 minus 41).
 
This is slightly off-topic for this thread, but if the Blazers finish 51-31, everyone would say that's 20 games above .500. However, .500 for 82 games is 41, so shouldn't that only be 10 games above .500? I understand 51-31=20, but tell me where my logic is off.

The reason people use wins minus losses to determine "games over .500" is because they're talking about how many losses they are away from being .500.

If you're 51-31, you'd need to lose the next 20 games to hit .500. Thus, you are (at least) 20 games away from .500, in the positive direction, or "20 games above .500."

Your way of calculating is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint, too...it's just saying something different.
 
The reason people use wins minus losses to determine "games over .500" is because they're talking about how many losses they are away from being .500.

If you're 51-31, you'd need to lose the next 20 games to hit .500. Thus, you are (at least) 20 games away from .500, in the positive direction, or "20 games above .500."

Your way of calculating is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint, too...it's just saying something different.
I'll buy that explanation. Thanks!
 
This is slightly off-topic for this thread, but if the Blazers finish 51-31, everyone would say that's 20 games above .500. However, .500 for 82 games is 41, so shouldn't that only be 10 games above .500? I understand 51-31=20, but tell me where my logic is off.

Were you the one that called into Wheels' show the other day on 'what's your beef?' and said the exact same thing?
 
What are you smoking? I have seen plenty of teams, mostly bottom feeders, put teams out with 4 rookies getting playing time.

I've seen plenty with 2 a few with 3, but 4? I'm too lazy to go look it up, but fielding 4 rookies implies a ton of draft picks that most teams simply never acquire, let alone put into the rotation.
 
I think the rookie stat is a little misleading and meaningless, mostly because it seems unlikely few teams in league history have actually had 4 rookies to field in a given game, which makes the sample size for comparison pretty damn small.

But that's the point. What we're doing is rare and we are playing great.
 
But that's the point. What we're doing is rare and we are playing great.

I'm not arguing the point that winning with 4 rookies in the rotation isn't amazing, I just think the sample size of teams that have actually played 4 rookies is meaningless and misleading because the sample size is statistically insignificant.

It's just a comment about the oddball nature of the statistic, not a comment about how unusual it is for a young team to win; I probably phrased my original comment poorly.
 
I thought people from Utah weren't allowed to speak badly of other people from Utah, some sort of state law... That article is great.
 
Were you the one that called into Wheels' show the other day on 'what's your beef?' and said the exact same thing?
No, and I usually listen to Wheels, but I must have missed that segment. I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem.
 
I've seen plenty with 2 a few with 3, but 4? I'm too lazy to go look it up, but fielding 4 rookies implies a ton of draft picks that most teams simply never acquire, let alone put into the rotation.
Which is why I pointed out that it's somewhat of a coincidental stat, due to Oden and Rudy postponing their rookie years. The odds are against such a thing occurring otherwise.
 
I'm not arguing the point that winning with 4 rookies in the rotation isn't amazing, I just think the sample size of teams that have actually played 4 rookies is meaningless and misleading because the sample size is statistically insignificant.

It's just a comment about the oddball nature of the statistic, not a comment about how unusual it is for a young team to win; I probably phrased my original comment poorly.


That's like saying Kobe's 81 isn't impressive because hardly anyone ever does it.

The fact of the matter is nobody (or very few) have won with 4 rookies.

You are in fact only pointing out that it's even more unlucky to be done...


A. because hardly anyone plays with 4 rookies

B. If they do, they don't do very well.

















IMHO of course
 
It's not that a team with 4 rookies hasn't played well in the past. We've already said that Chicago did. What's crazy is that a team with 4 rookies is playing GREAT, unbelievable, possible top 5 in the league, great.
 
That's like saying Kobe's 81 isn't impressive because hardly anyone ever does it.

The fact of the matter is nobody (or very few) have won with 4 rookies.

You are in fact only pointing out that it's even more unlucky to be done...


A. because hardly anyone plays with 4 rookies

B. If they do, they don't do very well.
















IMHO of course

Have you given up on ebonics?
 
The 1977-78 Phoenix Suns finished 16 games over 0.500 (49-33) with the 4th best record in the entire NBA with four rookies that all played in at least 64 games. Three of their rookies played in at least 80 games that season.

BNM
 
That's like saying Kobe's 81 isn't impressive because hardly anyone ever does it.

The fact of the matter is nobody (or very few) have won with 4 rookies.

You are in fact only pointing out that it's even more unlucky to be done...


A. because hardly anyone plays with 4 rookies

B. If they do, they don't do very well.

Not at all the same. Every player and every team scores points, there's a huge sample of players scoring points which makes an outlier like 81 so freaking unbelievable.

In any case this is becoming a really stupid argument; I've been completely misunderstood, and/or I have done a completely piss poor job of making my point (I'm guessing the latter). It's not important.
 
Not at all the same. Every player and every team scores points, there's a huge sample of players scoring points which makes an outlier like 81 so freaking unbelievable.

In any case this is becoming a really stupid argument; I've been completely misunderstood, and/or I have done a completely piss poor job of making my point (I'm guessing the latter). It's not important.


Yes, and every team in the history of the NBA has had a roster, there's a huge sample of teams putting players on the floor and playing games which makes an outlier like this years Blazers so freaking unbelievable.


Your saying it's not a big deal because nobody ever does it... That's exactly what makes it a big deal.
 

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