Greg and the refs

[Spud147]

I'm probably being a total homer but doesn't it seem like the refs have it in for Greg? Okay maybe they don't "have it out for him" but I think they're calling things on him that they don't call on the other players on the court. I understand he's learning the game and does commit fouls but it's to the point where they're so nit picky with him he can't even get game experience. Isn't there a happy medium somewhere?

 

[hasoos]

At the same time, Greg has to learn to get both of his hands in the air on defense. He is getting called for pushing off with the lower arm a lot. He needs to get both of his hands in the air. He is getting called a lot for fouls. But some of them are his doing.

 

[craigehlo]

His defense is regressing a bit lately. He needs to worry about blocking the shot rather trying to stop the drive. He's too slow and big to cut off fast guards and he's picking up bonehead fouls there as well as hitting arms under the hoop. He needs to back off from being so aggressive on D for a while.

 

[Spud147]

At the same time, Greg has to learn to get both of his hands in the air on defense. He is getting called for pushing off with the lower arm a lot. He needs to get both of his hands in the air. He is getting called a lot for fouls. But some of them are his doing.

Oh I totally agree but I think the refs are just looking to call a foul on him no matter how insignificant it is. It's very frustrating to watch.

 

[alex42083]

Greg's finding himself is just really bad positions at the hoop. I think MB and Rice mentioned it on the broadcast that Greg is meeting the players too early, right as they go up for a layup for a shot, as for Joel who meets players right the apex of of the shot to block it.
It's just another learning lesson for him. I don't think they have it in for him.. just that he's in really bad positioning.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think the refs may be looking for the fouls because Greg is clearly committing the fouls; in time I think he's starting to develop a reputation as someone who's a little "handsy." I think this is mostly on Greg though and not the refs, becuase every time I see the replay he is usually guilty.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Repeat after me:

Greg is still learning the game of basketball. He's only 20 years old with one year of college experience. He's coming back from a major injury where he missed an entire year.

Repeat.

 

[BBert]

I have seen a number of questionable calls on Greg this season. Some sequences of ticky-tack crap have been potentially game-changing. More than once I've seen him get tagged when the foul was actually on someone else. The refs are not being kind to Mr. Oden.

However, in the last few games I've also seen Greg completely off-balance on defense, not in position, not in proper defensive stance, and reaching to try to compensate for it. The coaches could help a little by keeping his butt closer to the basket. He has no business 18 feet from the basket trying to contain quicker players. If our guards could slow down penetration a little better, that would help also.

So I think it's a combination of factors, a good deal of which is the fact Greg is 20 years old and playing against the most elite athletes in the world, and he has a lot to learn both mentally and physically to be able to defend in the NBA without getting in foul trouble every 5 minutes. He can't do anything about the refs. He can't make the guards defend better (well, maybe if he threatened them). He can't tell the coaches what to do. The only thing he can control is himself. Well, someday, anyway.

 

[Elton]

The game is also ridiculously skewed now to not allow much banging inside. Brandon Roy has benefited immensely from the new perimeter-friendly rules.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

The game is also ridiculously skewed now to not allow much banging inside. Brandon Roy has benefited immensely from the new perimeter-friendly rules.

This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. When Shaq came into the league, he could get away with extreme banging on the inside to get position by using his freakish body. If Shaq were to come into the league now, he'd foul out every game, guaranteed. Well, maybe not, since Shaq was a Media Frenzy Superstar from the beginning, and we all know how Media Frenzy Superstars are treated by the refs, now, don't we?

 

[crowTrobot]

there certainly has been a SPIKE in fouls called against oden in the past few games.

 

[Paxil]

Teams just v line right for him and bang him. 90% of the time the call goes against the defender. Some of it is Greg... but some of it is the way the rules are. It something they could do to every player all the time really.

 

[TehChad]

You know, I would think if anything, the refs would give Oden a little leeway. I mean he's a star across the nation, a guy that EVERYBODY wants to see play, and then the refs call him for plenty of ticky-tack fouls and ensure that he sees little time on the court. I mean let's face it: there's still tons of people around the country who watch the Blazers just to see Oden. But instead I see refs making at least 1-2 ticky-tack and/or BS call on him every single game.

Shaq had this same situation too at times in his career, and I remember reading Phil Jackson's book where he commented on this. He wrote a suggestion that stuck with me: Players should NOT be able to foul out of a game. Instead, Jackson suggests, the league should change it so after a player gets a certain number of fouls (probably 6 still), the other team should get one free throw plus possession of the ball (not including shooting fouls of course) and a full shot clock. So it's essentially the same as a Technical Foul.

Bottom line is basketball shouldn't be a game of trying to get key players in foul trouble and players surrendering easy shots because they don't want to take a chance of drawing one. Furthermore, it'd also take the game out of the refs' hands some more. Just let the players fucking play. :\

 

[BBert]

You know, TehChad, that's not a terrible idea. Another benefit MIGHT be that some of the star treatment of certain marquee players and the obvious desire by refs to NOT foul them out of the game (or to the bench) MIGHT be reduced. IOW, the games might actually be called more fairly. That I'd like to see.

 

[Paxil]

Most pickup games where you call your own fouls are better officiated than NBA games.

 

[mikeg]

these past two games, it really looked to me like greg was just not trying very hard on D. just really bad footwork and little effort. to be honest, he seemed to be playing half-heartedly.

that being said, just once i'd like to see nate leave him in and let him work through the foul trouble. even barrett and rice called him on it last night. even easier to do with joel playing so well.

 

[Paxil]

He looked like a man who knew a foul would be called on him no matter what he did. And he was.

 

[Kaydow]

Repeat after me:

Greg is still learning the game of basketball. He's only 20 years old with one year of college experience. He's coming back from a major injury where he missed an entire year.

Repeat.

You are right. But still . . . there is no way you can blame his foul trouble on the refs. His defensive positioning is terrible right now, and he goes for every block. He doesn't just try and block it either - he's trying to throw it into the 10th row.

When he's guarding somebody that's facing the basket (which happens quite often when you're playing a pick/roll team or when he's facing an athletic big like Nene who faces up) he doesn't move his feet. He lets the guy get a 1st step and ride on his hip every time. If he doesn't hack the guys arm, it's a foul to the body.

It seems to be getting worse - I think he's lost his confidence and he's thinking too much out there.

He'll learn . . .

 

[The Sebastian Express]

He certainly needs to learn to keep his hands up - he doesn't bring them down all the time but he does a lot. However, he's also getting a fair share of fouls that just aren't on him or that are just so ridiculously ticky-tacky that they make you facepalm. The foul he got for Shaquille throwing himself out of bounds was the most absurd I'd seen this year.

It'd also help if the guards fought through screens instead of switching so Greg gets stuck on a guard out at the perimeter. This is a Nate issue though I believe.

 

[Kaydow]

He's certainly in his own head right now. His body launguage looks like he doesn't want to be out there (recently) I thought it was just me, but last night my wife turned to me and said "That guy looks depressed". His shoulders are slumped and he looks defeated, and I have no idea why. When he picks up fouls and goes back to the bench he looks like he's at a funeral. Maybe he IS depressed - I don't know. He certainly has the weight of the world on his shoulders. Doesn't he know that the fans are going to give him every opportunity here? I mean, the guy goes for 12/10 and the Rose Garden gives him a standing O!!

 

[illmatic99]

Stan Van Gundy has noted a similar problem with Howard.

From Realgm:

Magic coach Stan Van Gundy says that center Dwight Howard has been picking up some "ticky-tack fouls" lately, and believes that referees pay more attention to big men.

"I think [Howard] is very frustrated the way the game is being called right now," Van Gundy said. "It's different in this league. The real good perimeter players seemed to really get the benefit of every call, any touch. The real good big guys, it seems it's just the opposite.

"They let people do more in there. I think it's part of an ongoing thing — they won't say that — but I think the league is trying to do everything it can to make it a perimeter league and not a post-up league."