GREG ODEN: “IS THERE ANY PROOF THAT I’M A BUST?”

[blazerboy30]

Nope. You have to play well on a consistent basis in order for it to mean anything.

So you're changing your definition again. That is 3 definitions within 3 posts.

According to your definition,

Please show me where I stated a definition of a bust

Oden could put together 10 games in which he averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds and then retire, happy to have "reached his potential."

Nice strawman. Where did I say that?

 

[The Professional Fan]

In no way is he a bust. You can't call someone a bust who has only played 82 games. Fact. He is, to this point, a disappointment. If he plays 70 games this year and averages a double double, would he be a bust? No. A bust is someone who NEVER met their potential. That does not apply to Greg in any way.

 

[blazerboy30]

This is the crux of the disagreement, I think.

Has Oden played enough games? No.

Has Oden played well when he HAS played? Yes (although not as well as we would all like, he's still been very effective).

I think that, over the course of a career, a player can be called a bust if either of these are answered "no".

The question as to whether Oden is a bust is based on how "bust" is defined. Someone can't be "dead thus far" (at least not very often), so it's possible that someone sees "bust" as a permanent condition, and until/unless it's showed that there's no realistic hope of the player changing from a "no" to a "yes" in the two questions I asked above, a player can't be called a bust. Players like Ilgauskas and Camby have come back from injuries early in their careers to be effective players, and I think that Oden certainly has a good chance to do the same.

Ed O.

Agreed.

If Oden's entire career goes the way it has until now, I will admit that he was a bust.

 

[MIXUM]

i think i just responded to yours didnt I?

and um.... oden has missed 2 seasons total. when hes played... he has been solid. not elite. not a star. hes not a huge scorer and never will be. nice defensive presence with shot blocking ability. that is what he is. NOT A STAR, a solid player. He was taken #1 overall over an ELITE player in durant. Oden cant even tie durants shoes.

So yes ODen is a bust IMO. Can he help the blazers? Yes. Will he ever be elite. No chance in hell. With his injuries and limited offense.... he is what he is. a solid player who didnt live up to a number 1 pick.

 

[MIXUM]

if he plays 72 games this year...... thats like saying if the twolves win a championship...

ahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Ed O]

Agreed.

If Oden's entire career goes the way it has until now, I will admit that he was a bust.

I can see that, and I can also see how people think he has been a bust TO THIS POINT. I would say that he's been a disappointment to this point (and maybe a "bust so far", if I were forced to say yes or no to that).

Of course, if he's a bust so far, it doesn't follow that the team should dump him or that he has no potential. Looking back and labeling him a bust far (or disagreeing with that label) has zero impact on him and his game moving forward.

Not to say we can't talk about it

Ed O.

 

[RoyToy]

Good for Greg for not listening to the dipshits that incorrectly call him a bust.

 

[BlayZa]

i don't think he's a bust just yet, but he's heading that direction at a rapid rate of knots. the kid just needs some good news! and I was hoping it would come this season in the form of health and performance, but unfortunately it looks like the former is already in jeopardy and will ultimately impact the latter.

some can and do argue he's a bust in terms of an opportunity cost point of view in regards to Durant, and it's hard to deny that theory has some merits, but i still believe Oden was the right pick for the franchise at the time. hindsight is 20/20 though and I'd swap him in a heartbeat for KD but that can and probably never will be a possibility.

i have my fingers crossed that Oden makes it to the court this year and has some standout games, hell - he can even be off with injuries sometimes - just not a whole nother season i want it to work out but the hill of hope gets steeper with every article imo - but i'm still hoping for the best.

 

[MIXUM]

Heres what we all hoped for....

Greg came into camp close to being healed and is ready to go. Limited minutes in pre season. Then plays 60-65 games during the season.

Instead we got....

good days and bad days, not where i want to be, not sure when i will be ready, etc.

 

[DaRizzle]

WOW. but you know deep down inside that oden is a bust and would all take horford or durant in a heartbeat.

Oh snap....I think thats the first mention of Horford... Oden is dropping

2007 Draft revision:
Durant
Horford
Noah
Gasol
Landry
Oden


uh oh

 

[MIXUM]

lopez too. jokim noah is a better center then odem thats just kill yourself depressing. a pf who is a better center then a 7 footer who was a cant miss.


god what a disaster

 

[blazerboy30]

I can see that, and I can also see how people think he has been a bust TO THIS POINT. I would say that he's been a disappointment to this point (and maybe a "bust so far", if I were forced to say yes or no to that).

I'll agree his career, thus far, has been disappointing to me. I'll continue to disagree that a bust isn't a permanent label. If it isn't a permanent label, then Shaq could be considered a "bust", since his production is low, and some people want to apply that label based on the most recent, small sample size production. It would be pretty silly to label Shaq as a "bust".

Until it is clear that Oden's overall performance and production isn't going to significantly change for the rest of his career, he isn't a bust.

Of course, if he's a bust so far, it doesn't follow that the team should dump him or that he has no potential. Looking back and labeling him a bust far (or disagreeing with that label) has zero impact on him and his game moving forward.

Not to say we can't talk about it

Ed O.

 

[DaRizzle]

lopez too. jokim noah is a better center then odem thats just kill yourself depressing. a pf who is a better center then a 7 footer who was a cant miss.


god what a disaster

Lopez wasnt in the 2007 draft....but after looking at it again Glen Davis at pick 35

2 Durant
3 Horford
9 Noah
31 Landry
35 Davis
48 Gasol
1 Oden

 

[MIXUM]

thanks for making me puke.

god oden is pathectic

 

[Minstrel]

god oden is pathectic

I can't argue with that.

 

[blazerboy30]

god oden is pathectic

Well if you were assuming Oden is a god, then it is obvious why you have been dissapointed.

 

[DaRizzle]

 

[BGrantFan]

I'll agree his career, thus far, has been disappointing to me. I'll continue to disagree that a bust isn't a permanent label. If it isn't a permanent label, then Shaq could be considered a "bust", since his production is low, and some people want to apply that label based on the most recent, small sample size production. It would be pretty silly to label Shaq as a "bust".

Until it is clear that Oden's overall performance and production isn't going to significantly change for the rest of his career, he isn't a bust.

Oh brother...

anyhow, since we're making things up now, I think that Oden's injuries, to some, make him a "bust" because of his body of work in the NBA thus far.

 

[blazerboy30]

Oh brother...

Exactly.

 

[DaRizzle]

Oh brother...

+1
wow blazerboy...is your real name STRETCH Armstrong?

 

[blazerboy30]

+1
wow blazerboy...is your real name STRETCH Armstrong?

Is "bust" a permanent label or not?

 

[BGrantFan]

Is "bust" a permanent label or not?

"Bust" is based on complete body of work. If you're seriously trying to make the case that an old Shaq is a "bust", or that old Jordan was a "bust", well, good luck with that one. Most people, I imagine, see those two as great players who finally got too old to be dominant.

Oden has never been close to Shaq's peak in his NBA career. Hell, maybe you're starting to convince me that Oden is a bust!

 

[Blaz06Draft]

Being BUSTED is far different than being A BUST. Being BUSTED means you've been injured. Being A BUST means that you perform poorly on the court.

Playing one-years-worth of games over three years definitely qualifies as being BUSTED.

But Oden has not been A BUST while he has been on the court. Far from it. He has played very much like you'd expect a once-in-a-generation center to play (apart from his foul rate). Advanced statistics indicate that when he has been on the court, he has been one of the two best players to enter the league this decade, that he compares favorably to the greatest centers of the last thirty years, and that he compares favorably to the greatest rebounders of all time. This indicates that if he can be relatively injury-free, and get his fouling under control, he just might be that once in a generation center he was hyped to be.

The following summarizes Oden’s performance on the court to date:

* Greg Oden is one of the two best players to come into the NBA in the last ten years according to comprehensive advanced statistics. (Hint: the other is LeBron).
* Greg Oden’s second year advanced stats compare favorably with those of the all-time great centers of the last thirty years: Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem (and Dwight Howard).
* Greg Oden's rookie year rebounding compares well with the rookie years of some of the greatest rebounders of all time.
* Greg Oden’s 2009-2010 advanced statistics compare well with those of three-time NBA all-star, two-time NBA defensive player of the year, three-time all-NBA team member Dwight Howard.
* Greg Oden was ranked higher in more advanced statistical categories last year than NBA scoring leader Kevin Durant, the 1st team all-NBA team player the Trail Blazers could have taken instead.

See http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/9/12/1684146/greg-odens-on-court-performance

 

[HailBlazers]

Is "bust" a permanent label or not?

It is till he wins 15 championships, she probably yes

 

[oldmangrouch]

His play has lived up to expectations.

You're the one playing doctor saying he will never play again.

That doesn't make him a bust.

So what does it make him?

Playing foolish semantic games really proves you are smarter than Mixum. Congrats.

 

[e_blazer]

The definition of "bust" used in the context we're discussing is a "failure or flop". While it may be correct to say that Greg's first three seasons have been a bust, at least relative to what we had all expected when he was drafted No. 1, it is amazingly stupid and shortsighted to insist that Greg as a player or that his entire career is going to be in the bust category. It could work out that way if the injury problems continue, but he's shown way too much talent and has had too great of an impact upon his team's success when he has been healthy for that to be a reasoned position. Of course, some folks around here don't appear to rely much on reason in offering up their opinions.

 

[MIXUM]

*edited*

 

[BGrantFan]

* Greg Oden is one of the two best players to come into the NBA in the last ten years according to comprehensive advanced statistics. (Hint: the other is LeBron).

I like advanced stats as much as anyone, but when you are only playing in 33% of your games, and you can't stay on the court when healthy because of fouls, well, I think that must be taken into consideration.

Plus, Oden was clowned by Yao in his only healthy playoff appearance. Which brings up another point. Are you telling me that Greg Oden is a better player than Dwight Howard and Yao Ming because of his "comprehensive" advanced stats?

It homeristic and unrealistic posts like yours that help make any Oden debate so divisive.

 

[e_blazer]

*edited*

Nice. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way back out of the forum.

 

[MIXUM]

* Greg Oden is one of the two best players to come into the NBA in the last ten years according to comprehensive advanced statistics. (Hint: the other is LeBron).

im waiting for the punch line ....