Grizzlies Sign Darius Miles

[Boob-No-More]

Every team Miles played for, when he was healthy and productive, couldn't wait to get rid of him. He butted heads with Paul Silas in Clevelend and yelled obscenities and slurs at Mo Cheeks in Portland. It's not just the media and "clueless fans" that didn't want Miles around, it was his own coaches.

The only team he ever played for that said nice things about him after he left town was Boston. But, they only had him for six preseason games (where he averaged 1.8 PPG and 1.2 RPG). Teams weren't willing to put up with Miles' insubordinate attitude when he was young, productive, athletic and full of potential. Why would someone want him now, when his ability isn't close to what it once was?

Yes, people change. Maybe Miles isn't the problem child he once was, but it's also obvious he isn't the basketball player he once was either. Other than screwing Portland out of cap space, I really don't see what's in this for Memphis. There are plenty of other younger, cheaper players available to fill their 15th roster spot. One of those players might even pan out and fit into their long term plans.

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

miles should maybe go play in europe

Why?

He's a Grizzly.

 

[Ed O]

Every team Miles played for, when he was healthy and productive, couldn't wait to get rid of him. He butted heads with Paul Silas in Clevelend and yelled obscenities and slurs at Mo Cheeks in Portland. It's not just the media and "clueless fans" that didn't want Miles around, it was his own coaches.

"Every team" meaning... two?

The Clippers certainly weren't in a rush to get rid of him.

How are the coaching careers of Silas and Cheeks going, by the way?

Ed O.

 

[mgb]

Is a guaranteed contract dependent on a certain date or how long he plays with a team? If the latter he might get drop before they have to pay him a guaranteed contract, but then get picked up by someone else with the suspension out of the way?

 

[noknobs]

I love it when people say stuff like this... that they think someone is intelligent until they disagree with them.

Hilarious.

Minstrel should watch some actual games to get intelligent, it appears.

Ed O.

No, I think they're intelligent until they argue that Outlaw is no better now than he was his rookie year. Once they say something that absurd, there's really no point in having a discussion any more. But I'll forget and forgive, because I'm nice that way, on top of knowing everything.

 

[Minstrel]

No, I think they're intelligent until they argue that Outlaw was a better player his rookie year than he is now.

I said nothing of the sort, but you can throw any sort of tantrum you like.

 

[noknobs]

I said nothing of the sort, but you can throw any sort of tantrum you like.

Tantrum? All I did was leave this meaningless thread...

I did mispeak, fixed it.

 

[Minstrel]

I did mispeak, fixed it.

Still wrong.

I'll speed this process up and quote the relevant text, that you clearly missed before flaming out on the thread:

I am not really saying Outlaw hasn't improved at all. His defense has improved and his court awareness has improved. But those are things we can't really compare to Miles in this discussion because that would take a very close watching of Miles through his career that we probably don't have. Comparing their production, both have stagnated and there's very little evidence that Outlaw "worked really hard" while Miles didn't.

 

[noknobs]

The only real difference, IMO, is that Outlaw started with low minutes and increased them, giving the illusion of rising performance, while Miles started with solid minutes from the beginning.

Not counting Outlaw's rookie season (when he played 8 games), here's how his PER (which is minutes- and pace-adjusted) looks:

2004-05: 15.4
2005-06: 12.9
2006-07: 15.3
2007-08: 15.7
2008-09: 13.7

Tossing out this year as incomplete and Outlaw figuring out his role, there's not a lot of evidence of him improving much or declining much. He's basically the same as he was the first year that he played in a lot of games.

Miles and Outlaw have shown a similar amount of stagnation since they started.

It is illusory, because the player's ability hasn't changed, he's just getting more minutes.

All you've proven is you like to talk in circles. I'm done playing. Again.

 

[noknobs]

Here's a link for you:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8167

"He's shown improvement every year and that's what we ask of our players. He made a commitment off the court, away from the season, to make himself a better player and he was a big part of the success we've had this year."

Now I'm leaving. For good this time. Seriously.

 

[Minstrel]

All you've proven is you like to talk in circles. I'm done playing. Again.

No, you've proven you can't understand arguments. I said that his production stagnated, which it did. His defense and court awareness, two non-production issues that can't be measured, have improved in my opinion. But since those two things are entirely subjective and require very close knowledge of the player, there was no point comparing those two things (defense and court awareness) with Miles. The things that can be looked at more numerically (his production) don't support your contention that Miles stagnated in a way that Outlaw did not.

I'm sorry if that was too complicated for you. You seem unhappy with anything more than "Miles lazy."

 

[Minstrel]

Here's a link for you:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8167



Now I'm leaving. For good this time. Seriously.

I'm happy that Pritchard agrees with me. Was there a point beyond that?

 

[noknobs]

No, you've proven you can't understand arguments. I said that his production stagnated, which it did. His defense and court awareness, two non-production issues that can't be measured, have improved in my opinion. But since those two things are entirely subjective and require very close knowledge of the player, there was no point comparing those two things (defense and court awareness) with Miles. The things that can be looked at more numerically (his production) don't support your contention that Miles stagnated in a way that Outlaw did not.

I'm sorry if that was too complicated for you. You seem unhappy with anything more than "Miles lazy."

You wrote his "ability" hasn't changed... That's categorically false. Ability is the power to perform or accomplish something. His ability to be a consistent jump-shooter has changed. His ability to play defense has changed. His ability to see the court has changed. His ability to dribble and drive has changed. His ability to rebound has changed. He could not do these things as well as he can now, and thus his ability has changed. Again, you're just talking in circles.

Also false is you saying that his production hasn't increased. It's increased every year he's been in the NBA up to this year.

I'm sorry if this too complicated for you.

 

[PapaG]

"Every team" meaning... two?

The Clippers certainly weren't in a rush to get rid of him.

How are the coaching careers of Silas and Cheeks going, by the way?

Ed O.

The Clippers got rid of their number 3 pick, Darius Miles, after two seasons.

LOL

 

[PapaG]

Here's a link for you:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8167



Now I'm leaving. For good this time. Seriously.

Three mods here.

Two who think they know everything, and the third has resigned himself to zinging one-liners.

 

[Minstrel]

You wrote his "ability" hasn't changed... That's categorically false.

At least as far as his production goes (scoring, rebounding, passing, limiting turnovers), it hasn't, IMO. If he were a more consistent jump-shooter, etc, it would show up in the numbers.

Also false is you saying that his production hasn't increased. It's increased every year he's been in the NBA up to this year.

It's gone up with minutes. If he played 48 minutes per game, it would go up more. His efficiency hasn't changed, which is why I said he's stagnated. If Miles had started at the same low number of minutes per game and raised them (rather than starting out at higher minutes), his per-game averages would have improved as well.

Both players never improved significantly in terms of the production aspects of the game. Miles' minutes never changed a huge amount, so his per-game numbers never changed. Outlaw started with fewer minutes, and then increased his minutes to Miles' level, leading to a seeming improvement in his game (if you go by per-game numbers).

And, again, to be clear, I think he improved on defense. But I've been discussing the aspects of the game that can be measured, because comparing defensive improvement between Outlaw and Miles would be futile.

 

[noknobs]

At least as far as his production goes (scoring, rebounding, passing, limiting turnovers), it hasn't, IMO. If he were a more consistent jump-shooter, etc, it would show up in the numbers.



It's gone up with minutes. If he played 48 minutes per game, it would go up more. His efficiency hasn't changed, which is why I said he's stagnated. If Miles had started at the same low number of minutes per game and raised them (rather than starting out at higher minutes), his per-game averages would have improved as well.

Both players never improved significantly in terms of the production aspects of the game. Miles' minutes never changed a huge amount, so his per-game numbers never changed. Outlaw started with fewer minutes, and then increased his minutes to Miles' level, leading to a seeming improvement in his game (if you go by per-game numbers).

And, again, to be clear, I think he improved on defense. But I've been discussing the aspects of the game that can be measured, because comparing defensive improvement between Outlaw and Miles would be futile.

So essentially you seem to be arguing that a player who plays say 5 minutes a game, and has a PER of lets say 15, has the same ability as someone who plays 30 minutes a game and has a PER of 15. Since the only thing that has changed are his minutes, not his actual ability to play the game of basketball... Even though most sane individuals realize that those with more ability play more... Pretty logicial, but apparently PER is more important than actually watching a player improve over the years. Thank you, I'm glad we're clear. I think everyone can draw their own conclusions.

I'm out, I got nothing else to say. Flame away.

 

[PapaG]

So essentially you seem to be arguing that a player who plays say 5 minutes a game, and has a PER of lets say 15, has the same ability as someone who plays 30 minutes a game and has a PER of 15. Since the only thing that has changed are his minutes, not his actual ability to play the game of basketball... Even though most sane individuals realize that those with more ability play more... Pretty logicial, but apparently PER is more important than actually watching a player improve over the years. Thank you, I'm glad we're clear. I think everyone can draw their own conclusions.

I'm out, I got nothing else to say. Flame away.

Well done. You should be a mod here, since being a either a jester or a strong personality is all it takes to gain the position.

I nominate noknobs to be a mod!

 

[Minstrel]

So essentially you seem to be arguing that a player who plays say 5 minutes a game, and has a PER of lets say 15, has the same ability as someone who plays 30 minutes a game and has a PER of 15.

If they only play 5 minutes, not a whole lot has been established since that's a tiny sample size.

If they play 15 minutes per game at a 15 PER, and then 25 minutes per game at a 15 PER and then 33 minutes per game at a 15 PER, yes, I'd say that they haven't really progressed. There's some marginal gains in maintaining efficiency over more minutes, but I wouldn't say it's particularly significant. Certainly not enough to support your contention that Outlaw's and Miles' careers show a clear difference that can be attributed to hard work or motivation.

 

[PapaG]

If they only play 5 minutes, not a whole lot has been established since that's a tiny sample size.

If they play 15 minutes per game at a 15 PER, and then 25 minutes per game at a 15 PER and then 33 minutes per game at a 15 PER, yes, I'd say that they haven't really progressed. There's some marginal gains in maintaining efficiency over more minutes, but I wouldn't say it's particularly significant. Certainly not enough to support your contention that Outlaw's and Miles' careers show a clear difference that can be attributed to hard work or motivation.

Heh. Change the lines again. A question. What is the bad thing about the PER numbers you posted for Outlaw?

 

[Minstrel]

A question. What is the bad thing about the PER numbers you posted for Outlaw?

There's nothing bad about his PER numbers. A 15 PER is essentially an average starter quality player, which is fairly valuable. The fact that the Blazers are deep enough to bring a starter-quality player off the bench (or, were deep enough, when Batum was playing well) is a luxury.

 

[BrianFromWA]

"Every team" meaning... two?

The Clippers certainly weren't in a rush to get rid of him.

How are the coaching careers of Silas and Cheeks going, by the way?

Ed O.

And with Iavaroni on the hot seat...

 

[Masbee]

Every team Miles played for, when he was healthy and productive, couldn't wait to get rid of him. He butted heads with Paul Silas in Clevelend and yelled obscenities and slurs at Mo Cheeks in Portland. It's not just the media and "clueless fans" that didn't want Miles around, it was his own coaches.

The only team he ever played for that said nice things about him after he left town was Boston. But, they only had him for six preseason games (where he averaged 1.8 PPG and 1.2 RPG). Teams weren't willing to put up with Miles' insubordinate attitude when he was young, productive, athletic and full of potential. Why would someone want him now, when his ability isn't close to what it once was?

Yes, people change. Maybe Miles isn't the problem child he once was, but it's also obvious he isn't the basketball player he once was either. Other than screwing Portland out of cap space, I really don't see what's in this for Memphis. There are plenty of other younger, cheaper players available to fill their 15th roster spot. One of those players might even pan out and fit into their long term plans.

BNM

The Clippers "couldn't wait to get rid of him". That is silly. They traded him for value - excellent value, in a young Andre Miller.

That is the furthest thing from "dumping" Miles or evidence of wanting to get rid of him. That team had an abundance of forwards and cashed in one for a rare young point guard.

The Cavs were coached by Silas. He had lost it around that time and wasn't a good coach. I don't take what he says seriously. I remember Silas trashing Boozer - when Boozer was a free agent to be. Boozer said he wanted to be an all-star and wanted assurances that the team saw a future for him in Cleveland that was compatable with that dream. Silas said Boozer would never be an all-star as a Cav as it was LeBron's team and LeBron was option 1, 1a and 1b. What a moron. And I thought so at the time.

Yes, the Cavs did want to dump Miles. Miles was completely misused by Silas in Cleveland and his production plummeted. And so, of course they "butted heads". These situations always beg the question - who is most at fault here? - the player who sucks, or the coach who has a failing team? Silas "butted heads" with essentially every star player he coached. What does that tell us about Miles? Not much.

Look at Miles numbers from Clippers to Cavs to Portland. Of course Cleveland wanted to dump him - he didn't work out for them at all. Blame Miles, blame the coach, blame the system. what does it matter? That marriage didn't work. Oh, by the way, the Cavs "couldn't wait to dump" Silas either.

As for Cheeks - I couldn't wait to dump him from the Blazers. Forget Miles, I didn't like the Cheeks hire. Didn't like him when he coached the team. Wanted him gone every year.

And, did you forget that Cheeks admitted that he was an instigator in Miles' outburst? Miles went too far - flipped his lid. But, Cheeks needled him in front of the team - and in a unfair way.

 

[Masbee]

Here's a link for you:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8167



Now I'm leaving. For good this time. Seriously.

Oh good.

Wait, you lied. Darn.

 

[STOMP]

And, did you forget that Cheeks admitted that he was an instigator in Miles' outburst? Miles went too far - flipped his lid. But, Cheeks needled him in front of the team - and in a unfair way.

singling out Darius for the team's poor team D when their starting backcourt was VanX and Damon, when DM was arguably that club's best defender.

Man Nash was a horrible GM. Besides signing Joel (who basically came to PDX on his own recognizing an opportunity to play with injury prone Theo as the starter w/a new max deal), I don't think he was at the helm for a single move that I applauded. As much grief as TBob received for his infamous "not a chemistry major" comment I've never followed more gruesome Blazers squads then those that Nash so proudly assembled. They were a complete mess of overpaid limited talents with conflicting skillsets led by Cheeks. I don't blame the individual players for being frustrated with that mix... many/most NBA players are just dumb jocks. Put them in a good situation and they'll likely buy into team goals and get the most out of their ability. Put them in a trainwreck like was saw here and they'll fend for themselves.

STOMP

 

[noknobs]

Oh good.

Wait, you lied. Darn.

Yeah, no room for common sense here. I can see why you'd feel threatened by me. Mile's legacy in Portland has apparently become good, and Outlaw is no better today than he was five years ago. Brilliant.

 

[Masbee]

Yeah, no room for common sense here. I can see why you'd feel threatened by me. Mile's legacy in Portland has apparently become good, and Outlaw is no better today than he was five years ago. Brilliant.

Is this post intentionally stupid, you know, as a joke - ha ha.

Or, is something this comical, inadvertent?

 

[noknobs]

Is this post intentionally stupid, you know, as a joke - ha ha.

Yes.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Darius Miles wasn't a very good basketball player. Is the debate over "why?" really worth all this angst?

 

[ehizzy3]

Three mods here.

Two who think they know everything, and the third has resigned himself to zinging one-liners.

if you dont like them, leave. you wont be missed