Gun Control, Mental healthcare, big brother... thread (1 Viewer)

[barfo]

Training and education. ProActive education on safety, how to store, clean and responsible. Promote gun range time.

Not that that's a bad thing, but I don't see how it helps this particular problem. These mass shooters generally seem to know how to operate their guns.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I consider them murder weapons.

I guess you could talk to your senator about requiring background checks for bic lighters and steak knifes.

Let me know how that goes.

 

[magnifier661]

Not that that's a bad thing, but I don't see how it helps this particular problem. These mass shooters generally seem to know how to operate their guns.

barfo

If more citizens have guns, because they are properly trained, those sickos can't cause terror with guns.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If more citizens have guns, because they are properly trained, those sickos can't cause terror with guns.

You mean training like the police?

Cleveland police officers fired 137 rounds into car, killing 2

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/13_cleveland_police_officers_w.html

 

[barfo]

If more citizens have guns, because they are properly trained, those sickos can't cause terror with guns.

Sure. Because, after all, anyone trained at a firing range will be able to get their pistol out of their purse before somebody with an Uzi guns them down.

You know, if you want to be somewhere that everyone has guns and are always on the lookout for shooters, there are several war zones around the world you might want to visit. Everyone is trained on their weapons there, they all feel very safe, and no one ever gets shot.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I guess you could talk to your senator about requiring background checks for bic lighters and steak knifes.

Let me know how that goes.

Nah, I think it's the folks who want to ban guns or otherwise infringe on the 2nd amendment rights of citizens who should be barking up that tree.

See what I did there? "Barking."

 

[magnifier661]

You mean training like the police?

Cleveland police officers fired 137 rounds into car, killing 2

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/13_cleveland_police_officers_w.html

No. Like how millions of Americans that own guns without the mad regulations that haven't hurt a single person with their guns.

 

[magnifier661]

Sure. Because, after all, anyone trained at a firing range will be able to get their pistol out of their purse before somebody with an Uzi guns them down.

You know, if you want to be somewhere that everyone has guns and are always on the lookout for shooters, there are several war zones around the world you might want to visit. Everyone is trained on their weapons there, they all feel very safe, and no one ever gets shot.

barfo

Vermont has one of the lowest gun per 100k and zero regulations. So what?

 

[magnifier661]

I guess you could talk to your senator about requiring background checks for bic lighters and steak knifes.

Let me know how that goes.

Can we ban fertilizers too???

The Oklahoma City bombing was a domestic terrorist bomb attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma Cityon April 19, 1995. Carried out by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the bombing killed 168 people[1] and injured more than 680 others.[2] The blast destroyed or damaged 324 buildings within a 16-block radius, destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings,[3][4]causing an estimated $652 million worth of damage.[5] Extensive rescue efforts were undertaken by local, state, federal, and worldwide agencies in the wake of the bombing, and substantial donations were received from across the country. The Federal Emergency Management Agency(FEMA) activated eleven of its Urban Search and Rescue Task Forces, consisting of 665 rescue workers who assisted in rescue and recovery operations.[6][7]

 

[magnifier661]

Crazies will still do crazy things....

The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax sporeswere mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others. According to the FBI, the ensuing investigation became "one of the largest and most complex in the history of law enforcement".[1]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

No. Like how millions of Americans that own guns without the mad regulations that haven't hurt a single person with their guns.

But I thought you wanted them to hurt people with their guns.

 

[magnifier661]

Another whacko that killed without a gun

Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski (/kəˈzɪnski/; Polish: Kaczyński, pronounced [kaˈt͡ʂɨȷ̃skʲi]; born May 22, 1942), also known as the "Unabomber", is an American anarchist and serial murderer. Between 1978 and 1995, Kaczynski engaged in a nationwide bombing campaign against people involved with modern technology, planting or mailingnumerous homemade bombs, ultimately killing a total of three people and injuring 23 others. He also is known for his wide-ranging social critiques, which opposed industrialization and modern technology while advancing a nature-centered form of anarchism.[2][3][4]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Can we ban fertilizers too???

The Oklahoma City bombing was a domestic terrorist bomb attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma Cityon April 19, 1995. Carried out by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the bombing killed 168 people[1] and injured more than 680 others.[2] The blast destroyed or damaged 324 buildings within a 16-block radius, destroyed or burned 86 cars, and shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings,[3][4]causing an estimated $652 million worth of damage.[5] Extensive rescue efforts were undertaken by local, state, federal, and worldwide agencies in the wake of the bombing, and substantial donations were received from across the country. The Federal Emergency Management Agency(FEMA) activated eleven of its Urban Search and Rescue Task Forces, consisting of 665 rescue workers who assisted in rescue and recovery operations.[6][7]

Crazies will still do crazy things....

The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on Tuesday, September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 attacks. Letters containing anthrax sporeswere mailed to several news media offices and two DemocraticU.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others. According to the FBI, the ensuing investigation became "one of the largest and most complex in the history of law enforcement".[1]

You've made your point! Lets deregulate bombs and bioweapons!

 

[magnifier661]

These sickos did this two miles down my house.

Two sentenced for murdering five people in Quartz Hill

Steve Kwon (left) and Jai Shim (right) were taken into custody June 28, 2008, after Mexican police found them near the border and took them to the Douglas, Ariz., port of entry. (Images from Cochise County Sheriff’s Office, via Tucson.com.)

LOS ANGELES – One man was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole and a second — who unsuccessfully tried to withdraw his guilty plea — was ordered to spend 125 years to life in prison for murdering five people with a baseball bat and samurai sword in a Quartz Hill home in 2008.

“These crimes were hideous … They were brutal beyond belief,” Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler said Friday before sentencing Jae Shim, 46, to life without the possibility of parole, and Steve Kwon, 45, to five consecutive 25-year-to-life terms for the June 23, 2008, stabbing and bludgeoning deaths.

The judge said that “evil” was in the courtroom and was “dressed in blue” jail clothes.

The two were charged in the killings of Shim’s 34-year-old ex-wife, Jenny Young Park; her daughter, Jamie, 13; her 11-year-old son, Justin; Park’s cousin, Joseph Ciganek, a 60-year-old NASA engineer, and Park’s boyfriend, Si Young Yoon, also 34.

All of the victims but Yoon were found dead inside the home, where a fire had been set.

Deputy District Attorney Beth Silverman told the judge that information recently provided by Shim helped authorities to track down Yoon’s remains, which had been dumped in a bag in Mexico. Yoon’s remains — which had been discovered and buried inside a numbered box in a mass grave — were subsequently exhumed and returned to his family.

Shim had been facing a potential death sentence when he pleaded guilty Feb. 4 to five counts of murder and one count of arson of an inhabited dwelling, along with admitting the special circumstance allegations of multiple murders and murder while lying in wait.

Kwon pleaded guilty to the murders just as his trial was getting underway in July, then subsequently asked the judge to allow him to withdraw his guilty plea based on his claim that he is innocent.

“Your protestation of innocence is so hollow, so false,” the judge told Kwon in refusing his request.

Through a Korean interpreter, Yoon’s mother, Ok-Soon Yoon, called her son the “pride and joy of my life.”

“That child will be in my heart forever, but the pain will be there as well,” she said tearfully, noting that Shim and Kwon “even actually attempted to frame my son for the killing of four people” and then dumped his body in Mexico.

“Over seven years of time, I had no idea what happened to my son,” said the victim’s mother, who left her son’s room untouched. “Now I have no choice of accepting the fact that he is gone and dead.”

Pointing at her brother’s killers, Yoon’s youngest sister, SiJeong Yoon, said, “You deserve to die!”

Another of his sisters, Si Hee Schumacher, called her brother her “guardian angel,” and said it was “so unfair” what Shim and Kwon had done to her family.

The children’s aunt said she wondered what state of mind the men would have been in to kill “two innocent children” and said she wanted them to know how much pain and sorrow they had caused. She also said she was stunned by Kwon’s claim of innocence.

Shim and Kwon went armed with a baseball bat and Samurai sword to the home, with Kwon bashing the occupants with a baseball bat and Shim finishing them off with a Samurai sword, the prosecutor said.

The two inadvertently left their weapons behind, and then drove Yoon’s body to Mexico, where it was dumped over the edge of a ravine, before the two got lost and were turned over covered in cuts and other injuries to U.S. authorities at the border, Silverman said.

Outside court after Shim’s plea, the prosecutor said Shim’s motive for the killings was “jealousy, power, control and a lot of anger” against his ex- wife and others related to her. Silverman described Shim and Kwon as childhood friends from Korea.

Previous related stories:

Second defendant pleads guilty in Quartz Hill murders

Palmdale man pleads to murdering 5 people

–

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Another whacko that killed without a gun

Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski (/kəˈzɪnski/; Polish: Kaczyński, pronounced [kaˈt͡ʂɨȷ̃skʲi]; born May 22, 1942), also known as the "Unabomber", is an American anarchist and serial murderer. Between 1978 and 1995, Kaczynski engaged in a nationwide bombing campaign against people involved with modern technology, planting or mailingnumerous homemade bombs, ultimately killing a total of three people and injuring 23 others. He also is known for his wide-ranging social critiques, which opposed industrialization and modern technology while advancing a nature-centered form of anarchism.[2][3][4]

What exactly is your point?

So I'm guessing you've moved to the "everyone who wants a gun should have one" column with Marazul and Maris?

No background checks, illegals, criminals, felons, children, everyone should be able to buy guns?

Not once have a said I was anti gun. I've actually said just the opposite. But sure, if you want to label me I guess I'll go on the record as anti bombs and bioweapons. God damn me!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

These sickos did this two miles down my house.

Two sentenced for murdering five people in Quartz Hill

Steve Kwon (left) and Jai Shim (right) were taken into custody June 28, 2008, after Mexican police found them near the border and took them to the Douglas, Ariz., port of entry. (Images from Cochise County Sheriff’s Office, via Tucson.com.)

LOS ANGELES – One man was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole and a second — who unsuccessfully tried to withdraw his guilty plea — was ordered to spend 125 years to life in prison for murdering five people with a baseball bat and samurai sword in a Quartz Hill home in 2008.

“These crimes were hideous … They were brutal beyond belief,” Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler said Friday before sentencing Jae Shim, 46, to life without the possibility of parole, and Steve Kwon, 45, to five consecutive 25-year-to-life terms for the June 23, 2008, stabbing and bludgeoning deaths.

The judge said that “evil” was in the courtroom and was “dressed in blue” jail clothes.

The two were charged in the killings of Shim’s 34-year-old ex-wife, Jenny Young Park; her daughter, Jamie, 13; her 11-year-old son, Justin; Park’s cousin, Joseph Ciganek, a 60-year-old NASA engineer, and Park’s boyfriend, Si Young Yoon, also 34.

All of the victims but Yoon were found dead inside the home, where a fire had been set.

Deputy District Attorney Beth Silverman told the judge that information recently provided by Shim helped authorities to track down Yoon’s remains, which had been dumped in a bag in Mexico. Yoon’s remains — which had been discovered and buried inside a numbered box in a mass grave — were subsequently exhumed and returned to his family.

Shim had been facing a potential death sentence when he pleaded guilty Feb. 4 to five counts of murder and one count of arson of an inhabited dwelling, along with admitting the special circumstance allegations of multiple murders and murder while lying in wait.

Kwon pleaded guilty to the murders just as his trial was getting underway in July, then subsequently asked the judge to allow him to withdraw his guilty plea based on his claim that he is innocent.

“Your protestation of innocence is so hollow, so false,” the judge told Kwon in refusing his request.

Through a Korean interpreter, Yoon’s mother, Ok-Soon Yoon, called her son the “pride and joy of my life.”

“That child will be in my heart forever, but the pain will be there as well,” she said tearfully, noting that Shim and Kwon “even actually attempted to frame my son for the killing of four people” and then dumped his body in Mexico.

“Over seven years of time, I had no idea what happened to my son,” said the victim’s mother, who left her son’s room untouched. “Now I have no choice of accepting the fact that he is gone and dead.”

Pointing at her brother’s killers, Yoon’s youngest sister, SiJeong Yoon, said, “You deserve to die!”

Another of his sisters, Si Hee Schumacher, called her brother her “guardian angel,” and said it was “so unfair” what Shim and Kwon had done to her family.

The children’s aunt said she wondered what state of mind the men would have been in to kill “two innocent children” and said she wanted them to know how much pain and sorrow they had caused. She also said she was stunned by Kwon’s claim of innocence.

Shim and Kwon went armed with a baseball bat and Samurai sword to the home, with Kwon bashing the occupants with a baseball bat and Shim finishing them off with a Samurai sword, the prosecutor said.

The two inadvertently left their weapons behind, and then drove Yoon’s body to Mexico, where it was dumped over the edge of a ravine, before the two got lost and were turned over covered in cuts and other injuries to U.S. authorities at the border, Silverman said.

Outside court after Shim’s plea, the prosecutor said Shim’s motive for the killings was “jealousy, power, control and a lot of anger” against his ex- wife and others related to her. Silverman described Shim and Kwon as childhood friends from Korea.

Previous related stories:

Second defendant pleads guilty in Quartz Hill murders

Palmdale man pleads to murdering 5 people

–

So now you want to ban Asians?

 

[magnifier661]

You've made your point! Lets deregulate bombs and bioweapons!

Mass knife attacks, like at Texas college, are rare

Melissa Phillip, Houston Chronicle, via AP
A police helicopter circles the Cy-Fair campus of Lone Star Community College. less
An attack by a knife-wielding student on a college campus near Houston on Tuesday left 14 people wounded – two of them seriously – and rekindled fears of yet another brazen daytime assault on students.

 

[MARIS61]

You've made your point! Lets deregulate bombs and bioweapons!

Neither is regulated to the excess that guns are.

Anyone can create either after legally buying the ingredients at the corner store. Detailed instructions are all over the internet.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Neither is regulated to the excess that guns are.

Anyone can create either after legally buying the ingredients at the corner store. Detailed instructions are all over the internet.

If bombs make me happy and I have the right to pursue them.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Mass knife attacks, like at Texas college, are rare

Melissa Phillip, Houston Chronicle, via AP
A police helicopter circles the Cy-Fair campus of Lone Star Community College. less
An attack by a knife-wielding student on a college campus near Houston on Tuesday left 14 people wounded – two of them seriously – and rekindled fears of yet another brazen daytime assault on students.

Denny is the one advocating for background checks on steak knifes.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny is the one advocating for background checks on steak knifes.

No, you are.

 

[magnifier661]

If bombs make me happy and I have the right to pursue them.

The Boston Marathon bombing was a terrorist attack, followed by subsequent related shootings, that occurred when two pressure cooker bombs exploded during the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013. The bombs exploded about 12 seconds and 210 yards (190 m) apart at 2:49 pm EDT, near the marathon's finish line on Boylston Street. They killed 3 people and injured an estimated 264 others.[2][4][9]

 

[magnifier661]

Denny is the one advocating for background checks on steak knifes.

What I just showed you were examples of maniac psychopaths that mass murdered without firing a bullet. Most were able to purchase items off the shelf without background checks or registration.

Your logic failed... The crazy people can still kill with or without guns. The OKC bomb killed 168 people.

Next...

 

[magnifier661]

Just hire SlyPokerDog as the liaison to warrant unconstitutional laws and Barfo to change us into a fed run society to punish anyone making money and strip people of their rights.

 

[Denny Crane]

Here's a "reasonable" idea.

If you commit a crime with gun drawn, mandatory 20 year sentence. If you kill, death penalty.

If somebody you know uses your gun, you are equally guilty.

 

[e_blazer]

It is why you can't reasonably limit MY right to self defense.

"Reasonable" is only valid rhetoric if you accept the right may be infringed. There is no middle ground.

Go amend the constitution. Clearly if it is so reasonable, there won't be many people resisting the effort.

Hey, unless you've got a record or you're mentally unbalanced (and the jury's still out on that one), I don't want government to infringe on your right to defend yourself. I wouldn't mind it helping you to better defend yourself by requiring you to attend gun safety and target shooting classes as a condition of gun ownership, but that's just an idea that should be discussed.

I understand that your fundamental view of the Constitution is that anything government might want to do to regulate gun ownership in any fashion violates the 2nd amendment. The 2009 Supreme Court decision is in line with that thinking. That said, things change. There was a time when most legal scholars would have said there is no constitutional ground to guarantee a woman's right to an abortion or a gay couple's right to marry. Over time, Supreme Courts have typically found ways to read the Constitution in ways that support the direction that the country is moving socially. Gun ownership is unlikely to be immune to judicial legislation.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What I just showed you were examples of maniac psychopaths that mass murdered without firing a bullet. Most were able to purchase items off the shelf without background checks or registration.

Your logic failed... The crazy people can still kill with or without guns. The OKC bomb killed 168 people.

Next...

LOL! Do you even know what you're arguing about? It's like you make up a person's stance and then argue against that.

Sorry my friend but I never said people couldn't kill people without guns. I appreciate you googling and posting those things but you're arguing against something I never said or believe.

 

[Denny Crane]

Hey, unless you've got a record or you're mentally unbalanced (and the jury's still out on that one), I don't want government to infringe on your right to defend yourself. I wouldn't mind it helping you to better defend yourself by requiring you to attend gun safety and target shooting classes as a condition of gun ownership, but that's just an idea that should be discussed.

I understand that your fundamental view of the Constitution is that anything government might want to do to regulate gun ownership in any fashion violates the 2nd amendment. The 2009 Supreme Court decision is in line with that thinking. That said, things change. There was a time when most legal scholars would have said there is no constitutional ground to guarantee a woman's right to an abortion or a gay couple's right to marry. Over time, Supreme Courts have typically found ways to read the Constitution in ways that support the direction that the country is moving socially. Gun ownership is unlikely to be immune to judicial legislation.

If people can illegally obtain meth or drugs smuggled across the border, they will illegally get whatever guns they want.

I'm not aware of any of these killings that would have been stopped by any of the recent proposals here.

It's like closing the barn door after the chicken escaped from the neighbor's chicken coop.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Here's a "reasonable" idea.

If you commit a crime with gun drawn, mandatory 20 year sentence. If you kill, death penalty.

If somebody you know uses your gun, you are equally guilty.

I could work with that.

But we'd still have background checks right?