Hardaway Wants Out?

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With Garden boss James Dolan standing at his side late Tuesday, Isiah Thomas stood inside the Knicks locker room and implored his players to stick together and not allow personal agendas to undermine the team.

Thomas' message came moments after the Knicks lost to Sacramento and not long after Penny Hardaway informed the Knicks president that he was unhappy over his limited role and that he would welcome a trade.


According to a team source, Hardaway's agent, Kevin Poston, contacted Thomas after the game and the two got into a heated exchange. Neither Thomas nor Poston was available for comment yesterday. Hardaway, who is earning $14.6 million this season and $15.7 million next year, could not be reached for comment.</div>
Daily News

Penny has played well when he was healthy for us. I hope this does not stir up any chemistry problems. The Knicks can illaford having trouble with the team. He gave us a little hint of that when he said that he would like to play for the Orlando Magic back in late December when we played them.

It wont be easy moving Penny. We should probably wait untill the offseason when he has that huge expiring contract along with Tim Thomas. No team I think would be willing to take Hardaway. Not every team is the NBA bank like we are. Teams just drop off their unwanted players with huge salaries and eventually while they save up cap room and create a good future, we on the other hand continue to have these players. Hardaway has barely played for us and is injuried. Penny's beef should be with Lenny Wilkens. Baker should be pretty upset as well. But from day 1, I really didn't believe this swing man log jam was going to work. Look at us. We have Houston, Marbury, Ariza, Crawford, him and Tim Thomas(he doesn't deserve the time but, he gets it anyway.) All of 6 of those players can't really expect to get a ton of minutes all the time.

I thought there was a mutual agreement that this problem really was not going to arise. But, anyway the one he should be made at is Lenny Wilkens. I am just as confused as the next person on why Tim Thomas is getting more burn than Penny. I understand he is hurt and all but, even back when he was okay Tim Thomas was really getting some signifficant minutes. But then again, no one expected him to play that badly. Also remember when Lenny first came in and Shandon Anderson got no time. Shandon was not a crowd favorite neither was he a great offensive player but, we have to give credit where credit is due. Shandon was as hardworking as they come. But, Wilkens broke his consecutive game streak and right in front of his friends and family in Atlanta. I really can't think of anything grimier than that (except what Carlos Boozer did to Cleaveland.) Also Frank Williams had a problem with the roation as well. I remeber he said that he almost asked for a trade because of that little stretch in which he would get absolutely no time. Williams was good for the Knicks. He had an excellent 2nd year and played exceptionally well in the playoffs especially considering it was his first year and he was playing with the best PG in the league Jason Kidd. So, we can already see that Lenny Wilkens has a rotation problem and does not know how to use a bench to the climax of its potential.

The fact of the matter is Penny Hardaway is a Knick and should focus his thoughts on how he can benefit the team. If you can't help, don't hinder, and if Hardaway becomes a distraction the Knicks can easily lose focus and all of our high expectations that we had on this Knick team, can easily be shattered. Btw, Penny I am really sorry!

 

[KnicksUK]

If he is intent on leaving and is just gonna disrupt the team, get him outa here and use him for a trade for C-Webb!!

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KnicksUK:</div><div class="quote_post">If he is intent on leaving and is just gonna disrupt the team, get him outa here and use him for a trade for C-Webb!!</div>
I don't think the Kings will take it. If they do, it will have to be next season when he is a free agent so the Kings can clear up some cap room. I really don't think the Kings ever want to rebuild so we probably wont get Webber out of that deal besides, imagine what will he do to Michael Sweetney. Just take away his development so the Knicks can be immediately good.

 

[thedude9990]

lmao the magics did

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thedude9990:</div><div class="quote_post">lmao the magics did</div>
I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

I was so annoyed when I read about that in the paper this morning. But I saw it coming. Houston and Crawford are the ones who said they wont have a problem at the guard position. I dont know if anyone else saw that article, but after Houston said he'll be ready to go in a couple of weeks the article discussed Penny Hardaway and how his minutes would be cut. Penny said something like, "I'm glad Houston is back but I just dont want management to forget about me" and I knew then there would be a problem.

So now we have Penny whining about minutes along with Vin Baker(although I think Baker has a legitimate beef). Funny thing is everyone thought that it would be either Houston or Crawford complaining about time. Ariza is ahead of Hardaway because of his hustle and his defense. TT is ahead of Hardaway because he's 6'10" and almost always has a mismatch that every now and then he occasionally takes advantage of. Penny Hardaway has been injured for a good deal of the season. I do think that he should have a fair shot at taking the starting position away from TT but he has to prove he deserves it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Until he proves that he should start ahead of TT and Ariza he really cant complain about the minutes he's getting.

Whatever happened to team work? You know, "taking one for the team"? Or being the first to "jump on the grenade". I did not think Penny was this selfish. Instead of playing his role and doing whatever he can to help the Knicks he's asking for a trade. I am disappointed with him. If Houston and Crawford can co exist at the shooting guard position when they've both been the number one options for nearly their entire careers with their respective teams. Then noone else should be complaining.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
The fact of the matter is Penny Hardaway is a Knick and should focus his thoughts on how he can benefit the team. If you can't help, don't hinder, and if Hardaway becomes a distraction the Knicks can easily lose focus and all of our high expectations that we had on this Knick team, can easily be shattered. Btw, Penny I am really sorry!</div>

Amen!

By the way I had a solution for this problem. Why dont we use Hubie's ten man rotation? You know the one he used for Bernard Kings Knicks. It worked for them it could work for us.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">By the way I had a solution for this problem. Why dont we use Hubie's ten man rotation? You know the one he used for Bernard Kings Knicks. It worked for them it could work for us.</div>
I am still a student of the game and have a lot to know about the Knicks. Even after I did their history. Could you explain a little bit of the 10 man rotation a bit for me? Knowing Lenny, we probably will have not have anything smart.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I am still a student of the game and have a lot to know about the Knicks. Even after I did their history. Could you explain a little bit of the 10 man rotation a bit for me? Knowing Lenny, we probably will have not have anything smart.</div>

Well basically Hubie, who was the coach for the Knicks for a few seasons during the 80's, had a brilliant idea. Not only did he have capable starters but good players on the bench. So he decided to employ a unique rotation to maximize production from his starters and bench. The way it works is there are completely different teams. The first five starters play the game for a while then the entire line up comes off the court. That line up is replaced by five guys off the bench. The opposing team would get worn out since the Knicks production didnt slack when the starters left the floor. There wasnt complaining about minutes(I dont think). But the rotation leaves little room to be flexible.

That in a nutshell is the ten man rotation. But I know there's other people who can explain it better than me, maybe Knicks Analyst. If we want we can make some adjustments so that it can better serve our purposes. I think it can work.

 

[Penny]

I encourage Penny to leave, I really do.

The New York Knicks coaching staff is showing complete disrespect to probably the smartest basketball player on the team. I mean he was great in the Playoffs last year, but that doesn't account for anything! They give him no time, and I hear the same thing over and over -- 'just play your role'

What role!!

I cannot remember the last time he got over 25 minutes! I mean wtf are they thinking? He was injured, and he has been activated for a reason, they put Jamison Brewer to create a roster spot for Anfernee Hardaway, use him! Irrespective of his recent injury, he hasn't been hurt for a while, and earlier in the season they still failed to give him time.

You would think with Jamal Crawford hurt, and Allan Houston still not 100% they would play the most accomplished player on the roster? You would think. But no, still nothing and then people wonder why he would get upset.

As predictable as it may be, I am behind Penny Hardaway. Why should he be there if there isn't room for him there, or any role for him there?
No point, leave, go to a team which will use his court smarts. And the New York staff wonder why they are inconsistent and losing right now, just hovering at the .500 mark.

Please ....... what a bunch of idiots, I personally get so offended, because I cannot understand the logic, he has proven he can play well when given time, yet the same limited minutes over and over.

The New York Knicks disrespected Don Chaney in an awful manner, they disrespected Shandon Anderson, Vin Baker and now they are doing it to Penny Hardaway. I want the best for Penny Hardaway and if that is to leave, then leave, no point hanging around where you log less than 22 minutes/game.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">On Saturday, Hardaway was upset after playing only 13minutes against New Jersey. He then played only seven minutes against the Kings. On several occasions, Hardaway has hinted that he would like a bigger role and that the Knicks are not maximizing his talents.</div>
Exactly, I mean can you blame him? They lose twice, and he averages 10 minutes a game in the losses. Yeah real nice, Jamal Crawford is out and he still doesn't see time.

The New York Knicks is not for Penny Hardaway despite the fact that they promised him a greater role, he will never see it in a New York Knicks uniform. I hope he gets the respect he deserves, whether it be here or somewhere else.
They done the same with Vin Baker ....... why re-sign him if your not using him? Seriously, where is the logic, and they are probably pondering why they have lost 3 straight and facing stiff competition from the Philadelphia 76ers for top spot in the Atlantic Division.

One not so happy camper!

 

[KnicksUK]

Vin Baker isn't playing for a reason - hes terrible. Mohammed has got that centre's position on lock at the moment.

Penny is/was a great player but I can also see how he's being left out at the moment. I don't think it's deliberate disrespect, but I can see how he's gonna be annoyed about it.

Im with mrj18 on the issue of him asking for a trade though. Play well and stick it out.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Penny:</div><div class="quote_post">I encourage Penny to leave, I really do.

The New York Knicks coaching staff is showing complete disrespect to probably the smartest basketball player on the team. I mean he was great in the Playoffs last year, but that doesn't account for anything! They give him no time, and I hear the same thing over and over -- 'just play your role'

What role!!

I cannot remember the last time he got over 25 minutes! I mean wtf are they thinking? He was injured, and he has been activated for a reason, they put Jamison Brewer to create a roster spot for Anfernee Hardaway, use him! Irrespective of his recent injury, he hasn't been hurt for a while, and earlier in the season they still failed to give him time.

You would think with Jamal Crawford hurt, and Allan Houston still not 100% they would play the most accomplished player on the roster? You would think. But no, still nothing and then people wonder why he would get upset.

As predictable as it may be, I am behind Penny Hardaway. Why should he be there if there isn't room for him there, or any role for him there?
No point, leave, go to a team which will use his court smarts. And the New York staff wonder why they are inconsistent and losing right now, just hovering at the .500 mark.

Please ....... what a bunch of idiots, I personally get so offended, because I cannot understand the logic, he has proven he can play well when given time, yet the same limited minutes over and over.

The New York Knicks disrespected Don Chaney in an awful manner, they disrespected Shandon Anderson, Vin Baker and now they are doing it to Penny Hardaway. I want the best for Penny Hardaway and if that is to leave, then leave, no point hanging around where you log less than 22 minutes/game.


Exactly, I mean can you blame him? They lose twice, and he averages 10 minutes a game in the losses. Yeah real nice, Jamal Crawford is out and he still doesn't see time.

The New York Knicks is not for Penny Hardaway despite the fact that they promised him a greater role, he will never see it in a New York Knicks uniform. I hope he gets the respect he deserves, whether it be here or somewhere else.
They done the same with Vin Baker ....... why re-sign him if your not using him? Seriously, where is the logic, and they are probably pondering why they have lost 3 straight and facing stiff competition from the Philadelphia 76ers for top spot in the Atlantic Division.

One not so happy camper!</div>

How much time do you want him to get? We are loaded at the guard positions and small forward position. Marbury, Houston, Crawford are at the guard positions. Ariza and TT are manning the forward position. Moochie's also been playing well. There's just not enough time for everybody to get the amount of minutes they want. It's that simple. There is no way for him to get any time at the shooting guard position when were healthy. We need Ariza's defense and hustle. TT is 6'10" and is making ALOT of money. The Knicks want Hardaway to run some point but Marbury will get ALOT of minutes which will only leave a few for Penny.

Then there are Penny's injuries. He keeps getting hurt. Why would you start a player or give alot of minutes to a player who is constantly getting himself hurt? If Penny wants to get the minutes he wants he has to make it very obvious that he'll help the team more when given more minutes. That's the only way. The only player that is getting more time then him that probably doesnt deserve it is TT. Marbury also has a role in siphoning his minutes by sliding over to the shooting guard position when TT leaves the game and Ariza moves to small forward.

What's wrong with logging 20 minutes a game? Do you want him to play half the game when we have Marbury, Houston, Crawford? When he was healthy(and Houston out) early in the season he did get a good deal of minutes and he did play well. So he should be given a fair shot at taking the starting job from TT. As for Vin Baker he was supposed to be the back up center. JYD was supposed to be the man left out in the cold. But JYD's defense and hustle has Vin Baker glued to the bench. We're on a three game losing streak because we dropped on to the Nets, Sweetney got hurt, and the referees refuse to call a foul on Shaq. Philly I think will make the playoffs but their not winning the Atlantic. When we get back on track we'll start to pull away from them.

Baker and Hardaway not getting alot of minutes is noone's fault. When the season began it was obvious some players wouldnt be getting the amount of minutes they desired. We knew it, the players knew it and the mice knew it. Everyone has to make sacrifices. Crawford has to go to the bench, Houston has to get his minutes cut, Sweetney has to play limited minutes when he deserves more, Bruno(and Baker) have to keep the bench warm, and Brewer has to wear those flashy suits. I expect Hardaway to be a professional and do what's best for the team. No more complaining. Wait for his number to be called and give everything he has to help the team.

 

[Penny]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How much time do you want him to get?</div>I can't see him playing 25+ anymore for the New York Knicks, but with recent injuries (Allan Houston, Jamal Crawford) why isn't he becoming more of a weapon?
That is what I can't understand, I don't want him to play 30 minutes or whatever just that some use of him would be beneficial for the New York Knicks, I mean they get beat twice and he plays an average 10 minutes, that doesn't seem like good logic to me, that's all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then there are Penny's injuries. He keeps getting hurt. Why would you start a player or give alot of minutes to a player who is constantly getting himself hurt?</div>Penny Hardaway played 76 games last season, and has played thus far 16. This isn't his knee, and he hasn't been bothered by his knee for a while now. He is not injured and hasn't been injured as consistently as you put it.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Penny wants to get the minutes he wants he has to make it very obvious that he'll help the team more when given more minutes. That's the only way.</div>But that's just it, it doesn't seem to matter. Heck he put 16pts 5rebs 5ast in last years NBA Playoffs against the New Jersey Nets, almost putting a triple double in game 2, yet he still has to prove he can play hwen given time?
There seems to be inconsistent logic. Though I do agree with you to an extent, as many times this year I have been dissapointed when he didn't put numbers up when given time. Though it must be noted even if he did play 25 minutes, Penny Hardaway is not much of a shooter, in the sense that he doesn't shoot as often as Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford. He makes extra passes, assists etc .... that seems to be lacking, and could be an important characteristic in obtaining more wins for what is now a stuggling New York Knicks team.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What's wrong with logging 20 minutes a game?</div>It is the inconsistent use of him which bothers me. Sometimes 23 minutes the next game 11 etc .... he is the best player on that bench, by far, he should be a consistent 6th man, look at Ricky Davis of the Boston Celtics.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Philly I think will make the playoffs but their not winning the Atlantic. When we get back on track we'll start to pull away from them. </div> Oh, no doubt about it, I am still puzzled how some people even thought that the Boston Celtics, and the Philadelphia 76ers would be a better team .........
For sure, once the New York Knicks are healthy and ready to go, I'm sure they'll make the playoffs and capture the division, but I am worried on how the New York Knicks struggle against better Eastern Conference teams -- Cleveland Cavs & Miami Heat to name a short few.

 

[Mr. J]

Just an upadate on Penny
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PENNY'S THOUGHTS: A person close to Knicks president Isiah Thomas confirmed yesterday that Penny Hardaway had asked to be traded last week and that Hardaway and Thomas had decided that it would be best if the veteran guard left the team indefinitely. The same source laughed off two reports that claim that Hardaway never made such a demand.

"They have to spin it that way to a few guys because it doesn't look good," the source said. "Isiah's in a tough spot because Penny makes a lot of money, they want to trade him but they don't want to make it seem like Penny is a malcontent. But Penny is out of line. Does anyone really think Isiah would send him home just because his hamstring hurts? I guess a few people fell for it." </div>
New York Daily News

 

[Penny]

Four Way Trade In The Works?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">According to TNT Analyst David Aldridge there has been talk of a four way trade involving Toronto, New York, Miami and Minnesota, four maximum sized contracts exchanging zip codes.

According to the report Minnesota would receive Heat guard Eddie Jones and Toronto forward Donyell Marshall, Miami would receive Wolf Latrell Sprewell, the Knicks would receive disgruntled guard Jalen Rose while the Raptors receive often injured guard Anfernee 'Penny' Hardaway, who has one less year remaining on his contract. </div>
Link

I hope this happens. Jalen Rose is capable of putting numbers, but then again another guard in the mix ........ whilst Penny goes somewhere, where he'll get court time.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Penny:</div><div class="quote_post">Four Way Trade In The Works?


Link

I hope this happens. Jalen Rose is capable of putting numbers, but then again another guard in the mix ........ whilst Penny goes somewhere, where he'll get court time.

</div>

From what I've read there is no such trade in the works. But then again maybe this deal will happen. Rose can play small forward, while Ariza backs him up. That way TT will be on the pine for the rest of the season, if we're lucky. We'll finally get some sort of production from our small forward position. This deal doesnt improve our defense but it gives us more firepower to help offset the pathetic defense we play.

 

[KnicksUK]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">From what I've read there is no such trade in the works. But then again maybe this deal will happen. Rose can play small forward, while Ariza backs him up. That way TT will be on the pine for the rest of the season, if we're lucky. We'll finally get some sort of production from our small forward position. This deal doesnt improve our defense but it gives us more firepower to help offset the pathetic defense we play.</div>

I'd honestly prefer Wally to Jalen Rose. Wally is a better shooter, we just need our guards to be playing more D. They are professional players therefore they can't be incapable of good defence, too bad Lenny Wilkins is the wrong guy to bring it out of them.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KnicksUK:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd honestly prefer Wally to Jalen Rose. Wally is a better shooter, we just need our guards to be playing more D. They are professional players therefore they can't be incapable of good defence, too bad Lenny Wilkins is the wrong guy to bring it out of them.</div>

But Wally wouldnt come for the price tag of Penny. I doubt Rose would either...no matter how much the Raps want to get rid of him.