Zombie Harden traded to Houston!?

[JfizzleBlazer]

how much money does one need? would you rather be a serious title contender EVERY year or suffer in HOU for 4 years? For me I take the 55 mil and likely win a few titles, vs the 60 mil and mediocrity. Different stokes

It's not just an extra 4.5 million over 4 years, it's the opportunity to be the best player on his own team. If he stayed on OKC he was always going to be in the shadows of Durant and most likely Russell Westbrook.

 

[Blazinaway]

It's not just an extra 4.5 million over 4 years, it's the opportunity to be the best player on his own team. If he stayed on OKC he was always going to be in the shadows of Durant and most likely Russell Westbrook.

Note I said "different strokes", you and I look at it very differently, which is cool

 

[GoBlazersGo]

how much money does one need? would you rather be a serious title contender EVERY year or suffer in HOU for 4 years? For me I take the 55 mil and likely win a few titles, vs the 60 mil and mediocrity. Different stokes

Well, obviously, MOAR $$$ = MOAR HAPPINESS!!!

Duh!

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Houston does not have a bad outlook either. Without looking at the numbers, some have said Houston will have max dollars to offer to guys next year, and they should be bad enough to get a high draft pick. Add in Asik, Lin, White, Jones, Motiejunas and Parsons who all could prove to be good players, they could surprise some people and rebuild fast.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Quick run of the $$ shows that if OKC was to give Harden 55-60M over 4 years, they'd pay ~40M in luxury taxes in 2013-14 and 2014-15 combined, and that's without adding anymore players except rookie and vet min deals to fill out the roster. With this, they downgrade from Harden to Lamb, get Martin's contract as a big expiring if they'd like, a probable lotto pick from TOR (only if 4-14), CHA's 2nd (#31 or 32, probably) and a protected DAL pick---all while going from taking 40M from ClayClay and McClendon's pockets to giving them other teams' taxes back.

**(assumptions, 70.3M lux line this year, going up 2M a year, Harden 4/55M and 4/60M with max raises)

 

[maxiep]

Harden will make much more money with Houston. He'll get more endorsements in a bigger market. He'll be a focal point for the Rockets and his next contract will be bigger.

 

[BrianFromWA]

and the online vote from, uh, "Asia" will vote he and Lin as the WC starting backcourt.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Financially this made sense for OKC.

Talent wise, this is a big downgrade.

Harden >>>> Martin
Harden >>>> Lamb
Harden >>>> Heavily protected picks

Neither come close to his talent. Lamb could have a solid future but that's down the road.

PS.

Take that, Clay Bennett!

 

[BrianFromWA]

True, but I don't think there's any chance they would've kept both a near-max Harden and Perkins. So now, would you rather have a lineup of RW, Thabo/Lamb, Durant, Ibaka, Perkins or RW, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Aldrich/Collison? Oh yeah, and 40M cash?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

OKC should have made offers of Harden and Ibaka for Aldridge or Horford last year

 

[maxiep]

My guess is that they package some of those assets and trade for a nice player at their position of need. Presti is just a really smart guy.

 

[e_blazer]

Smart move on OKC's part. The handwriting was on the wall when they gave Ibaka the big deal. The new luxury tax provisions are an absolute killer. They pick up a guy in Martin who is more than capable of playing the 6th man this season, plus his contract is expiring so they'll be able to manage their salary going forward. Lamb's a nice prospect and they may get a lottery pick to pad their future talent. Harden's a real good player, but I don't see a team being able to carry a guy like that as a 4th guy on their squad with a near-max contract.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

this move is financial, end of story

okc just lowered their chance at a title

 

[BrianFromWA]

totally disagree. playing Harden, Westbrook and Durant at the same time was proven last year to show that you cannot cover LeBron AND Wade. This way, either Thabo or Lamb will be on the court at all times. Supposedly Lamb can play some D, if interested.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

totally disagree. playing Harden, Westbrook and Durant at the same time was proven last year to show that you cannot cover LeBron AND Wade. This way, either Thabo or Lamb will be on the court at all times. Supposedly Lamb can play some D, if interested.

lol

yes, lamb was the missing piece for them

 

[BrianFromWA]

You think Harden can guard Wade or Lebron? At ALL?

Yes, I think that more Thabo and Lamb and less Harden gives them at least a shot. Hell, even Nash/K*be were going to give RW/Harden more than they could handle.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

You think Harden can guard Wade or Lebron? At ALL?

Yes, I think that more Thabo and Lamb and less Harden gives them at least a shot. Hell, even Nash/K*be were going to give RW/Harden more than they could handle.

so they would have done better last year if they just cut harden? i mean they had thabo last year...

and where are you getting this lamb stuff from?

 

[BrianFromWA]

The knock on him is that, while he has a defensive stopper's body and instincts, he didn't use them all the time at UConn. Some of the scouting said:

Spot up shooters shot just 30.9% against Lamb. When they try to put the ball on the floor, they shoot just 29% off the dribble, and they score just .68 points per possession against him in isolations. Elite.

Granted, Wade and Lebron are not some poor kid from South Florida or Georgetown, but I don't think Harden is better as the 2 guard/6th-man for them. I think he'll be pretty awesome in HOU, but not for the Thunder, not for winning championships.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

ESPN is reporting that OKC offered 55.5 million over 4 years.....4.5 million short of a max deal.

Pretty ridiculous that they wouldn't give him 1 million more a year and instead shipped him out in a deal that makes the team worse now and in the future with the protections on those picks they received.

I wouldn't have moved Harden unless I was getting a guaranteed top 5 pick.

The other side of that coin is that some might think it's ridiculous that harden wouldn't give up 7.5% of 60 million so that he could keep the team together and stay with his buddies. I'm thinking OKC wasn't feeling that good about even the 55.5 million and they saw maybe this guy wasn't such a great team player since he wouldn't give a little.

 

[PapaG]

Wow, Morey has redeemed himself pretty successfully after all the shit he got for stockpiling picks and failing to get Howard.

)

Morey basically gave up 3 first round picks for Harden, who has never been more than a #3 option in OKC.

I think this cripples Houston.

 

[KingSpeed]

It makes a potential title contender worse, and all for like an additional 2mil/yr. I don't think many OKC fans are as happy with this as you are.

Read this:

Quick run of the $$ shows that if OKC was to give Harden 55-60M over 4 years, they'd pay ~40M in luxury taxes in 2013-14 and 2014-15 combined, and that's without adding anymore players except rookie and vet min deals to fill out the roster. With this, they downgrade from Harden to Lamb, get Martin's contract as a big expiring if they'd like, a probable lotto pick from TOR (only if 4-14), CHA's 2nd (#31 or 32, probably) and a protected DAL pick---all while going from taking 40M from ClayClay and McClendon's pockets to giving them other teams' taxes back.

**(assumptions, 70.3M lux line this year, going up 2M a year, Harden 4/55M and 4/60M with max raises)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Side effect: Houston is gonna have to waive somebody interesting. Machado?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Want to read the definition of sour grapes?

For example:

I contend that the Thunder was overvaluing Harden to begin with. He was a nice player, an important player. But he was third banana, a banana benefiting by playing mostly against subs while succeeding at other times while flanked by Kevin freaking Durant and Russell doggone Westbrook! Yet he wanted to be paid like a No. 1 option. Again, so it’s not misunderstood, Harden was valuable. But he wasn’t that valuable. OKC, however, flirted with paying him as though he is. The Thunder did more than flirt, actually. I’d call what the Thunder did making it to third base. And if OKC would have slide into home risking that type of money it undoubtedly would have been the biggest blunder we’ve seen yet.

This is like a dumped boyfriend convincing himself his girlfriend was ugly.

 

[Natebishop3]

I still think it was a bad deal for OKC, but maybe the market for Harden wasn't as good as some of us thought?

I just don't think any of what they got was a good enough prospect. The guy is 23. He should at least be worth a lotto pick. Instead they get Martin, who has never played a full 82 game season and has only played over 70 games three times in his 8 year career.

They also get Lamb, who I like, but he damn sure isn't a centerpiece in a trade for a guy like Harden. And then there's the draft picks.... which sure seem like they suck balls.

So what exactly did OKC get that they couldn't have gotten at the trade deadline? Mediocre talent? Shitty draft picks? Sure screams of a deadline trade to me. It's not like this was just some awesome deal they couldn't pass up. Was there seriously no other deal out there? The guy is only 23, he had a solid season last year, and he was an Olympian. Hell, I wish the Blazers would have made an offer. There HAD to be something better out there.

Injury prone chucker
Enigmatic rookie
Shitty draft picks

Yup..... Bang up job by Presti. I seriously don't know why people think he's so great. How awesome would the Thunder be if we had taken Durant and they had ended up with Oden? They'd have a team led by Russell Westbrook.... that's about it.

 

[Sinobas]

It seems that they could have waited for more offers, but Harden was going to be an UFA next year, and I believe Houston is a team that would have enough space to have signed him outright, then the Thunder get nothing. I think the owner decided that the draft picks, and a prospect like Lamb were better than losing him for nothing, or playing hundreds of millions of dollars in luxury taxes by retaining a player at his salary level.

Most likely it was simply a cost cutting move, and a way to save face.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

The money difference was huge. OKC could not offer a fifth year because it was not a max contract.

 

[jlprk]

I just don't think any of what they got was a good enough prospect. The guy is 23. He should at least be worth a lotto pick. Instead they get Martin, who has never played a full 82 game season and has only played over 70 games three times in his 8 year career.

That's what I was thinking. Presti could have gotten more, but he waited to put the trade to GMs and then got pressed up against the Oct. 31 deadline. In his 8 NBA years, Kevin Martin has averaged under 60 games. He is 6 1/2 years older than Harden.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Daryl Morey is looking amazing. He's acquired three players that he had no business acquiring. Everybody thought NY would match Lin. Everybody thought Chicago would match Asik. Nobody would have dreamed you could get Harden for crappy old Kevin Martin (who was, remember, ditched from Sacramento for basically nothing because he was interfering with Tyreke Evans' growth [that worked out well] and Jeremy "sleepy" Lamb). All his risky picks look like they're panning out (well, the jury's out on Royce White) and, AND, he will have cap room for another max contract this Summer! He's like Bob Whitsitt WITH a degree in Chemistry.

Does Houston have a single player who was on the books at this time two years ago? Or even one year ago?

 

[BigVolcano]

Why do people keep saying the draft picks are shitty?

The Raptors pick is guaranteed lotto. If the Raptors miss the playoffs this year (which I think they will), its a mid-late lottery pick. The Dallas pick is protected but I'm not sure of the details. Either way, it doesn't seem like the Mavs will be good for a while. The Charlotte second rounder is basically a late first but better as they don't have guaranteed contracts

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's how the deal went down.

All along, Pelinka and Harden understood: From the Rockets, to the Phoenix Suns, to the Dallas Mavericks, there was a maximum contract offer awaiting him in free agency. Harden's market value wouldn't be dictated on the fact the Thunder planned to pay him as the franchise's third-best player. Less money and a sixth-man role – after a summer with Team USA at the Olympics, this was an impossible sell on Harden.