Zombie Harden traded to Houston!?

[Denny Crane]

I think it's very short term that any team will be willing to go deep into the tax. Cuban let some pretty good guys go this offseason, and i take that as a pretty good indication of things to come.

How did small market teams do last season?

The San Antonio Spurs, Oklahoma City Thunder, Indiana Pacers, Memphis Grizzlies and Utah Jazz are 5 of the 16 playoff teams. Two of those played in the WCF.

Miami is a smaller market than Minnesota and Detroit. Two of the top three market teams have basically sucked for more than a decade (Chicago, Knicks).

The Lakers had a great offseason on paper, sure. Nash is a remarkable player for a guy pushing 40 - is he going to be really good in 3 years? Kobe's getting long in the tooth, too.

Howard did lead Orlando to the finals once. Is he enough for the Lakers to rebuild around in a season or two?

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

How awesome would the Thunder be if we had taken Durant and they had ended up with Oden?

It is hard to guess since franchise players like Durant are hard to obtain. The other moves Presti has made though is what separates him from someone like Kevin Pritchard. The guy knows the value of cap space and does not have the luxury of a big market/deep pocket owner.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Kevin Martin will probably be traded by deadline. Lamb will be a good NBA player and will be better than Martin anyways. I think this will turn out to be good for both teams.

 

[MickZagger]

I wonder if the Thunders will start Sefolosha or Martin?

 

[BrianFromWA]

my guess is Thabo. Starting lineup's been set for a year, it doesn't need much more firepower. Let Martin be a no-conscience gunner on the 2nd unit with Collison et al doing the dirty work

 

[huevonkiller]

Wow the Thunder fucked up. If anything you trade Westbrook and Ibaka a year ago. Harden is far more efficient and easier to build around.

Martin's career year is still a downgrade from what Harden did (per minute) last year.

 

[Natebishop3]

Wow the Thunder fucked up. If anything you trade Westbrook and Ibaka a year ago. Harden is far more efficient and easier to build around.

Martin's career year is still a downgrade from what Harden did (per minute) last year.

Well, to be fair, they don't need to "build around" either Harden or Westbrook. They are building around Kevin Durant.

 

[huevonkiller]

Well, to be fair, they don't need to "build around" either Harden or Westbrook. They are building around Kevin Durant.

True, but imagine what they could have had if they had offered westbrook and Ibaka? I think they might have even been better, if the right trade came along.

Westbrook is extremely impressive to the eye test.

 

[Natebishop3]

True, but imagine what they could have had if they had offered westbrook and Ibaka? I think they might have even been better, if the right trade came along.

Westbrook is extremely impressive to the eye test.

Absolutely, but neither Harden, nor Westbrook are truly a good fit next to Durant. Both of those players need the ball in their hands to be effective, thus taking the ball away from Durant who should be getting the lion's share of the touches. They need pure shooters, they need a pure point guard who can get Durant the ball in scoring position. They don't need a ball hog of a point guard, that's for sure. I probably would have tried to move Westbrook first as well.

 

[BBert]

OKC couldn't pay him what he wanted, so they struck while the iron was hot and they could get a trade done under their own terms and will still keep their talent level at a pretty high level. Conversely, Houston got the star they coveted.

Good trade.

This. With all the conjecture on this board that OKC couldn't afford to keep Harden, I'm surprised at the reaction that this isn't a good move by them. I think Harden is overrated, he choked in the finals, OKC didn't need a third player who has to have the ball in his hands, and OKC didn't want to / couldn't pay him without mortgaging the future. They have set themselves up to be good for a longer window, acquired a butt load of assets, and saved a butt load of money in the process. I hate it. I also love Presti's decisiveness and boldness. And I hate it.

 

[Blaze01]

It is a good move by OKC...Martin is a good vet player and Lamb has a lot of potential and they got 2 1st round picks out of the deal as well.....

They continually show why they are one of the best run organizations in the NBA.....

picking up PJ3 is looking like a very good move as well.....

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think it's a gamble you can take when you have a good track record of bringing in talent and assets. No matter how much PJ3 blows up, I don't think we could've taken that gamble, even at 11.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This. With all the conjecture on this board that OKC couldn't afford to keep Harden, I'm surprised at the reaction that this isn't a good move by them.

Except that they can. They just don't want to. Their owner has decided he's not that interested in winning right now. Or, I guess, ever.

 

[BrianFromWA]

So you would pay an extra 40M in tax in the next two years to see if the same team that lost last year can somehow make it past the upgraded L*kers and upgraded Nuggets, to beat the upgraded Heat in the Finals?

OR...get a bunch of younger, cheaper assets...keep the core of a really good team together, and see what happens?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Good and decisive move by OKC. OKC offered their top dollar to Harden. He turned it down and OKC then traded Harden and got good value for him.

OKC wanted to keep and Harden but didn't think he was worth the max (understandable) . . . so instead of overpaying Harden they got three first round draft picks and an expiring contract.

 

[RR7]

So you would pay an extra 40M in tax in the next two years to see if the same team that lost last year can somehow make it past the upgraded L*kers and upgraded Nuggets, to beat the upgraded Heat in the Finals?

OR...get a bunch of younger, cheaper assets...keep the core of a really good team together, and see what happens?

You mention them losing last year to the Heat a few times as if it is impossible for them to get by the Heat, because they lost to them last year.

 

[BrianFromWA]

no, I mention the way it b/c of the way they lost. Their "Big Three" are all players who are great (and efficient) scorers, while not necessarily lighting up the defensive end. If you play Sefalosha (or any other wing defender) instead of Harden, you give up a bit of scoring but you aren't allowing the other team (whether it's the Heat last year or anyone else this year) to score at will.

I think OKC is still really good. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them in the Finals again. However, I hardly think that this move cripples them from some destiny of winning this year. I don't think they would've won it all with Harden as the 6th man, and i don't think they drop much with Martin/Lamb in that role. They still have a chance (maybe a lesser one, but I don't think it was that big to begin with) and now they have a guy on 4 years of a rookie contract, and expiring, a lotto pick and another future first while NOT having a 40M tax bill over the next 2 years and no way to make the team better.

 

[Denny Crane]

Even with Thabo out there, Miami scored at will.

Wade put up 19, 24, 25, 25, and 20 points against OKC.

At the other end, Wade got to rest or was free(er) to double team.

 

[BigGameDamian]

True, but imagine what they could have had if they had offered westbrook and Ibaka? I think they might have even been better, if the right trade came along.

The thing is in every NBA trade that goes down there will always be fans who will say they could have gotten a better deal if only.....The thing is Westbrook is a starter while Harden was a bench player. I think in reality they it's a long shot that they could have gotten a better deal.

 

[mook]

Wow the Thunder fucked up. If anything you trade Westbrook and Ibaka a year ago. Harden is far more efficient and easier to build around.

Martin's career year is still a downgrade from what Harden did (per minute) last year.

Great point. If I owned the Thunder and I had to pick only 2 of those 3, I'd go with Harden and Durant. With all the PG's that moved around this summer, trading out Westbrook for a cheaper PG (plus other pieces) would've been very doable.

 

[Rhal]

If i was okc id have offered westbrook for robdo/sullinger and if that works then max out Harden. I watched a lot of OKC games last year and so many times OKC just looked out of sync with Westbrook at point then they would put Harden in and suddenly everything would run smoother. Harden is a SG that is also a floor general that can keep a team in line and make things run smoothly, kinda like Wade.


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[BBert]

But the Thunder can't "trade Harden and Ibaka a year ago", because today isn't a year ago. It's today. Maybe with the $40mil they'll save in lux tax they can invent a time machine. I just hope they let us borrow it for a few days.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

But the Thunder can't "trade Harden and Ibaka a year ago", because today isn't a year ago. It's today. Maybe with the $40mil they'll save in lux tax they can invent a time machine. I just hope they let us borrow it for a few days.

If they gave it to us, they wouldn't have Durant. So they're not going to do that.

Unless they get JORDAN...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Even with Thabo out there, Miami scored at will.

Wade put up 19, 24, 25, 25, and 20 points against OKC.

Aren't those about normal or below for him?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Good and decisive move by OKC.

Decisive, sure. Nobody disputes THAT.

OKC offered their top dollar to Harden.

No they didn't.

 

[Denny Crane]

Aren't those about normal or below for him?

Sure. Thabo might have slowed him down a tad. I think it's better to make a Wade play real hard at both ends.

 

[huevonkiller]

But the Thunder can't "trade Harden and Ibaka a year ago", because today isn't a year ago. It's today. Maybe with the $40mil they'll save in lux tax they can invent a time machine. I just hope they let us borrow it for a few days.

They still could have traded Westbrook, at the very least.

They could have traded Ibaka for something? Harden is the better player.

 

[BBert]

They still could have traded Westbrook, at the very least.

They could have traded Ibaka for something? Harden is the better player.

It would be interesting to know if they even considered trading Westbrook, and what they might have received in return. I like Harden better on Houston than on OKC, because they have Westbrook. I like Harden better on OKC if they'd traded Westbrook. I don't like Westbrook taking the ball out of Durant's hands. I guess, even though he's obvioiusly a great player, I don't care for Westbrook much. They'd have to get a pretty good PG in return if they gave him up. Look at how hard a time we've had trying to get a decent PG. As far as fit goes, they must value Lamb a lot, and the other assets. Yeah they took a step back, but it's a strategic move. Of course, I hope it blows up in their faces, but I don't think it will.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

It would be interesting to know if they even considered trading Westbrook, and what they might have received in return. I like Harden better on Houston than on OKC, because they have Westbrook. I like Harden better on OKC if they'd traded Westbrook. I don't like Westbrook taking the ball out of Durant's hands. I guess, even though he's obvioiusly a great player, I don't care for Westbrook much. They'd have to get a pretty good PG in return if they gave him up. Look at how hard a time we've had trying to get a decent PG. As far as fit goes, they must value Lamb a lot, and the other assets. Yeah they took a step back, but it's a strategic move. Of course, I hope it blows up in their faces, but I don't think it will.

I agree. As good as Harden is, I think it is easier to replace his position than it is Westbrook's position.

OKC has a bright future with Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka and three first round picks (two lottery). A good blend of rookie contracts and big salary contracts.

I also hope I am wrong and they blow up without Harden.

 

[Natebishop3]

Absolutely, but neither Harden, nor Westbrook are truly a good fit next to Durant. Both of those players need the ball in their hands to be effective, thus taking the ball away from Durant who should be getting the lion's share of the touches. They need pure shooters, they need a pure point guard who can get Durant the ball in scoring position. They don't need a ball hog of a point guard, that's for sure. I probably would have tried to move Westbrook first as well.

This was the beginning of the end for OKC. I said they should have traded Westbrook and not Harden back then. That was a horrible trade. Now look where they are.