Harrison Dang Diddily Do Damn Diddily Darn Barnes

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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
For me it comes down to some VERY basics. One, we are re-signing Batum, a better player than Barnes. Two Barnes cannot dribble the damn ball. Three, we already traded away M. Webster - we don't need 2.0. Four, Lillard = Porter 2.0.
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You had me all the way up to Lillard = Porter 2.0 ... I mean that's certainly the hope (and probably a pretty good best base comparison) but there's a lot of miles between here and there if you know what I mean.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

VanillaGorilla said:
It's the tier system.. Presumably Barnes and Lillard were both in the same tier according to Blazers scouts and Olshey. Within the tier, you draft on need.
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Exactly. From what I read, there wasn't a clear stand out in about the 5-8 range (after Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal and Robinson)...so I could easily imagine several players on the same tier, in Olshey's mind, when Portland was selecting.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Barnes needs to work on his game as well. If he doesn't improve his handles he will still be good, but not great. Lot of good players out there. We will see how hard he is willing to work. I would not classify him as a can't miss. Cleveland looked long and hard at him and still passed for a undersized SG.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Fez Hammersticks said:
If Neil sees Lillard as a P&R guard I hope we develop Leonard in that type of system. With his size and leaping ability he'd thrive.
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Fez, mad props for accepting the picks. For realz.

I know it wasn't want you wanted. But way to be with the team. Repped.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Pinwheel1 said:
Barnes needs to work on his game as well. If he doesn't improve his handles he will still be good, but not great. Lot of good players out there. We will see how hard he is willing to work. I would not classify him as a can't miss. Cleveland looked long and hard at him and still passed for a undersized SG.
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He also needs to work on his defense. Everyone believes he has the tools to be a good defender, but he's inconsistent on that end. The same was true of Rudy Gay in college (tools to be a standout defender, but inconsistent) and he never did develop on that end in the NBA.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Nikolokolus said:
You had me all the way up to Lillard = Porter 2.0 ... I mean that's certainly the hope (and probably a pretty good best base comparison) but there's a lot of miles between here and there if you know what I mean.
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Agreed. Im just saying I believe in this pick. I think it's going to be that good. And I never believe in picks. I hate the draft.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I don't understand the assumption that Barnes and Lillard were in the same tier (or Leonard and Lamb). Maybe the Blazers were just flat out going to draft by need and take the best PG on the board and center on the board. That was the consensus before the drafty the experts and that is what happened. Why assume Barnes was in the same tier?

The experts pretty much had the Blazers nailed (smokescreen failure). There was little to no talk of the Blazers moving the picks or picking anything other than PG and Center
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Minstrel said:
He also needs to work on his defense. Everyone believes he has the tools to be a good defender, but he's inconsistent on that end. The same was true of Rudy Gay in college (tools to be a standout defender, but inconsistent) and he never did develop on that end in the NBA.
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My big thought is why bring in Barnes? We have a SF. Bring in Barnes, why keep Batum. I'd rather have Batum than Barnes, so Lillard+Barnes=more.

Yeah I know that's the second time I've said it. But its truth.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I don't understand the assumption that Barnes and Lillard were in the same tier (or Leonard and Lamb). Maybe the Blazers were just flat out going to draft by need and take the best PG on the board and center on the board. That was the consensus before the drafty the experts and that is what happened. Why assume Barnes was in the same tier?

The experts pretty much had the Blazers nailed (smokescreen failure). There was little to no talk of the Blazers moving the picks or picking anything other than PG and Center
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I really don't understand all the hype about Barnes. I would have probably taken Lamb over Leonard if I'd been in charge, but I'm not against the pick. I like Lillard and I think he's going to be good for us.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

VanillaGorilla said:
I don't understand how you guys can be so sure the Blazers completely fucked up when none of these guys have even playing a second in an NBA game yet.
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I'm not betting my house on it or anything! Yet it is my strong opinion that this was a huge mistake of a pick, just like it was my opinion the Nolan Smith pick was a horrendous reach of a second round talent. Maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong, we can pull up this thread in the future. Obviously we don't know for 100% certainty what any of these player will become; maybe Anthony Davis will be a scrub and Fab Melo will be the rookie of the year? But even if we don't know for certain we can make an educated guess. I would guess LeBron will have a great season and another chance at being the MVP and Luol Deng has no chance at an MVP; yet you'd be more correct to say we won't know for absolute sure until the games are actually played.

As an outside observer that doesn't suffer from Blazer war room group think I believe our management again made a very poor choice. I will call them out when I see bad decisions. I loved both Gerald trades and many previous drafts but today I think they made a bad choice and I will call them out as I see it.

I enjoy thinking about the FUTURE of this roster, hoping for the improvements from the players and believing one day we will be a contender; to do that involves judging what this roster will become, which involves uncertainty, projections, and estimations. If you only want to view the past then you can do it with 100% accuracy but that is very boring narrow minded fandom in my opinion.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I don't understand the assumption that Barnes and Lillard were in the same tier (or Leonard and Lamb). Maybe the Blazers were just flat out going to draft by need and take the best PG on the board and center on the board. That was the consensus before the drafty the experts and that is what happened. Why assume Barnes was in the same tier?

The experts pretty much had the Blazers nailed (smokescreen failure). There was little to no talk of the Blazers moving the picks or picking anything other than PG and Center
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Because it sort of makes sense? It certainly seemed reasonable that Barnes was about on the same level as Lilliard ... at least from what little I saw of each.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Fez, mad props for accepting the picks. For realz.

I know it wasn't want you wanted. But way to be with the team. Repped.
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aka ...Way to be one of the Homerville bitches...FAMS!!!
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Nikolokolus said:
Because it sort of makes sense? It certainly seemed reasonable that Barnes was about on the same level as Lilliard ... at least from what little I saw of each.
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I obvioiusly didn't see any tier by teams, but the draft talk by the media seem to put Barnes in a different tier.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I obvioiusly didn't see any tier by teams, but the draft talk by the media seem to put Barnes in a different tier.
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:dunno:

Let me put it a different way: I felt about equally ambivalent about each as a prospect. There are things in each guys resume' that make me say "Oooh!" and then things that make me say "Uhh?" (both in about equal measure).

Barnes looks like Marvin Williams to me (or Webster) or maybe Luol Deng if he really hits his stride. Lilliard looks kind of like Mo Williams on paper or maybe he really can bloom into Terry Porter 2.0? I dunno, we'll see.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

tlongII said:
In 2-3 years Drummond will be who we regret passing on.
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may be, but he is a mental midget. I don't think he will amount to much more then a good bench player.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

VanillaGorilla said:
So the Blazers are doomed to never ever draft good players again? Your pessimism is not only showing, buy you are flinging that shit around like a chimpanzee with actual shit.
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What significant player have they drafted since 2008?

History is not on your side, yet you (and others) keep defending this inept organization....

There is a difference b\t a fan and and a homer....
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Blaze01 said:
What significant player have they drafted since 2008?

History is not on your side, yet you (and others) keep defending this inept organization....

There is a difference b\t a fan and and a homer....
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None ... but then again drafting in the twenties will do that for you ...
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Draco said:
As an outside observer that doesn't suffer from Blazer war room group think I believe our management again made a very poor choice. I will call them out when I see bad decisions. I loved both Gerald trades and many previous drafts but today I think they made a bad choice and I will call them out as I see it.
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Sure, it's always a fan's prerogative to "call out" bad decisions, but what are you basing it on? Your own scouting? Honest question, not sarcasm. Because mainstream opinion (from what I can tell) doesn't seem to justify your rather extreme reaction. Almost no one seemed to feel Barnes was a can't-miss or an elite prospect. In fact, the article I linked was a discussion on why Barnes was seen as disappointing (i.e. the perception already out there is that Barnes didn't live up to his hype).

I don't have any problem with you thinking Barnes would have been a better pick, but I think you're infusing your opinion with a strange amount of conviction, as though there's a lot of evidence that the Blazers totally screwed the pick up. But Barnes' production and general evaluations are of a pretty uncertain and risky pick without a massive upside.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Is that a reasonable excuse for you?

DEN would think differently.....
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Nikolokolus said:
Barnes looks like Marvin Williams to me
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Williams was actually considered a much stronger prospect coming out of college than Barnes. Williams was legitimately considered a blue chip prospect. He didn't end up justifying that, but has carved out a career as a fairly solid player. Considering Barnes has already failed to justify his college hype, I'm not that bullish on his NBA future. He could surprise and be amazing (I think Roy surprised even people who liked the pick, for instance) but Martell Webster is who I see.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I tell you one thing I belive and that is Lillard has a better chance of being that go to guy than Barnes. Part of it is because of the position he plays. But he has better quickness, better handles, a better outside shot and a better pull up jumper.

Now that doesn't mean he is a better player, because Barnes can do other things better than Lillard, but I would have been very uneasy on passing on Lillard tonight. Of course either way I am a little uneasy about our picks, but that is just the way I am. But I really think we need a PG with all those skills. Players like that dominate crunch time. It will take him a year to adjust, but by year two he should be ready to lead us.
 
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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

What gets me down about all this is that I would have been excited if the Blazers did something different than what the media was predicting. They kept predicting we would draft based on need and I kept thinking the media will be surprised with the Blazers pick as Olshey came in with some definite plans to not draft by position. And had they drafted a SG or SF or PF, I would be excited about this player is who the Blazers think is the best player out there and coach will just have to make the roster work.

But instead we do exactly as the media predicted, we picked a PG at 6 (even though a top pick dropped to 6 and we pick a project center. Safe I guess, but no excitement. Olshey's press conference had more sizzle than this draft.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Minstrel said:
Williams was actually considered a much stronger prospect coming out of college than Barnes. Williams was legitimately considered a blue chip prospect. He didn't end up justifying that, but has carved out a career as a fairly solid player. Considering Barnes has already failed to justify his college hype, I'm not that bullish on his NBA future. He could surprise and be amazing (I think Roy surprised even people who liked the pick, for instance) but Martell Webster is who I see.
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Yeah I vaguely remember Williams being seen as really elite ... I suppose I'm really referring to Marvin Williams the NBA player not the college prospect -- solid, but spectacularly underwhelming for a high lottery selection.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
My big thought is why bring in Barnes? We have a SF. Bring in Barnes, why keep Batum. I'd rather have Batum than Barnes, so Lillard+Barnes=more.
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So you want to draft based off need. Fine.

I just hate that strategy, we have a massive talent hole on this roster and are nowhere close to competing for a title, I want us to acquire the most talent. I'm not certain if Batum's best postion is at SG or off the bench anyways. So maybe theres a chance a starting SF was the biggest need for this team? We could get a free agent PG and Joel Freeland could be competent center. Now if we were a piece away from contending I could see leaning more towards drafting primarily for immediate need.

But being multiple steps away from having a contending roster, we have no idea what those step will do to our positional strength.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Draco said:
So you want to draft based off need. Fine.

I just hate that strategy, we have a massive talent hole on this roster and are nowhere close to competing for a title, I want us to acquire the most talent.
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What do you prescribe when two players are rated relatively equally?
 
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