Has CJ surpassed Dame as a scorer? (1 Viewer)

[PtldPlatypus]

As it stands, CJ has now scored 921 points on the season to Dame's 906 (albeit in 5 more games)--the first time in their careers that CJ has been ahead of Dame in that stat. Since Christmas, CJ is averaging 31.1 ppg. For a larger sample, CJ is averaging 25.2 ppg since the start of December, whereas Dame is averaging 24.4 in that same time.

Have we reached the point in their development where CJ is becoming the primary scorer, and Dame can step back and take the secondary role? If so, will the team be better as a result? Or is that concept completely irrelevant? What say you?

 

[Driew]

If teams have start doubling CJ instead of Dame that can only help our team.

 

[TBpup]

I think it actually would make us better in the long run that the PG is not the top scorer. However, until either of them can play defense, it seems a bit of a mute point.

 

[craigehlo]

He's more versatile and seems less streaky. I'd rather have him handling the ball more in half court sets.

 

[Orion Bailey]

As it stands, CJ has now scored 921 points on the season to Dame's 906 (albeit in 5 more games)--the first time in their careers that CJ has been ahead of Dame in that stat. Since Christmas, CJ is averaging 31.1 ppg. For a larger sample, CJ is averaging 25.2 ppg since the start of December, whereas Dame is averaging 24.4 in that same time.

Have we reached the point in their development where CJ is becoming the primary scorer, and Dame can step back and take the secondary role? If so, will the team be better as a result? Or is that concept completely irrelevant? What say you?

I saw this last night and see where you are going.

IF, and this isa BIG IF, the two will work together to win a championship, Dame will need to conceed the scoring to CJ and focus on assists and Defense.
Id rather see Dame with stats of
21/8/5
Rather than 28/4/4.

 

[blue9]

If Dame were better at setting teammates up, then it'd be great for him to score less and CJ score more. But neither Dame nor CJ are our best passers, so it really doesn't matter - they are both score-first players.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I wonder if Utah fans have sat around comparing Stockton and Malone.

 

[blue9]

I wonder if Utah fans have sat around comparing Stockton and Malone.

Because they were carbon copies of each other?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think it actually would make us better in the long run that the PG is not the top scorer. However, until either of them can play defense, it seems a bit of a mute point.

If only it was a mute point, then maybe people would stop talking about this stuff.

 

[Natebishop3]

CJ seems to be the more efficient scorer, which is what you want from your shooting guard. Realistically, having Dame paired with a more defensive minded 3/D guy would be ideal, and on the flip side CJ could be paired with someone like Steve Blake, that would be best for him. CJ reminds me a lot of Brandon Roy. It just sucks that our three best scorers are all guards.

 

[Five Second Violation]

As it stands, CJ has now scored 921 points on the season to Dame's 906 (albeit in 5 more games)--the first time in their careers that CJ has been ahead of Dame in that stat. Since Christmas, CJ is averaging 31.1 ppg. For a larger sample, CJ is averaging 25.2 ppg since the start of December, whereas Dame is averaging 24.4 in that same time.

Have we reached the point in their development where CJ is becoming the primary scorer, and Dame can step back and take the secondary role? If so, will the team be better as a result? Or is that concept completely irrelevant? What say you?

Our record since the beginning of December doesn't give me a ton of confidence in that.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I've got to say Damian looked BAD last night. Unsure, butterfingers. Either giving up the ball too soon or jacking way-too-long threes. Hope he finds his groove again. Right now CJ looks way better. Maybe Lillard feels he has to defer a little as he works himself back into shape.

 

[handiman]

I wonder if Utah fans have sat around comparing Stockton and Malone.

Everyone knows you only compare white to white and black to black. Just read the draft profiles if you're unsure.

 

[Reep]

If only it was a mute point, then maybe people would stop talking about this stuff.

Ahhhhh! MOOT, not MUTE. Moot point.

 

[illmatic99]

Because they were carbon copies of each other?

CJ's shot chart is vastly different from Dame's. Dame is 3pt and paint.

CJ is killer in the midrange. They have different strengths and are not carbon copies on offense.

The problem is defense. They're equally weak on that end and have the exact same deficiencies.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ahhhhh! MOOT, not MUTE. Moot point.

I'm pretty sure it's a moo point, because nobody really cares what a cow thinks.

 

[Orion Bailey]

CJ's shot chart is vastly different from Dame's. Dame is 3pt and paint.

CJ is killer in the midrange. They have different strengths and are not carbon copies on offense.

The problem is defense. They're equally weak on that end and have the exact same deficiencies.

Symantics. Point being is they are too similar overall.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm pretty sure it's a moo point, because nobody really cares what a cow thinks.

Does this count as an old school reference yet?

As far as the thread's subject, it depends. If you think Lillard's current three-point percentage is representative going forward, then yes, McCollum has become the superior scorer. If you think Lillard's percentage last year is more representative, then I'd still give the edge to Lil. You can find evidence for either perspective in past seasons.

I don't think Lillard's three-point shooting ability varies, I think he struggles to find the right balance between "shooting threes that are open" and "shooting absurd threes that break defenses if they go in." He's not Steph Curry, so the struggle is real. I think this season, he's being way too liberal with his shot selection. Maybe he'll adjust. Maybe not.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm pretty sure it's a moo point, because nobody really cares what a cow thinks.

Maybe it's a mutt point because only Sly gives a rip?

 

[illmatic99]

Symantics. Point being is they are too similar overall.

Huh? It's not semantics at all.

They work from different parts of the floor. Dame has become elite at finishing at the rim. CJ remains elite in the midrange and has the volume. They are very synergistic on offense because they are pretty damn different.

It's on defense where their similarities are.

 

[blue9]

CJ's shot chart is vastly different from Dame's. Dame is 3pt and paint.

CJ is killer in the midrange. They have different strengths and are not carbon copies on offense.

The problem is defense. They're equally weak on that end and have the exact same deficiencies.

But their strengths are both scoring off the dribble (or catch/shoot from 3 which seems to be increasingly rare), regardless of where they are shooting from. That's much different (understatement much?) than Stockton/Malone. But maybe we should run more P/R with Dame/CJ - perhaps we can make a Mailman out of CJ yet!

 

[illmatic99]

But their strengths are both scoring off the dribble (or catch/shoot from 3 which seems to be increasingly rare), regardless of where they are shooting from. That's much different (understatement much?) than Stockton/Malone. But maybe we should run more P/R with Dame/CJ - perhaps we can make a Mailman out of CJ yet!

Perhaps, but what I'm getting at is that we are better with them both on the floor on offense. They have divergent enough skills offensively to make us a top team on that end. And they don't necessarily need to be moved. If GS keeping Klay over Love has taught us anything, it's that there is value in building a team's strengths (shooting, P&R play, elite ball handling from 2 positions, etc) vs giving up that strength in a trade to build a more conventional team.

How many other teams have 2 guys like Dame and CJ for 48 mins? We have something most other teams don't. Now build on that by finding guys that complement these two and mitigate their weaknesses.

I just think we're too hellbent on giving up the one thing we do have in chase of something we hope to have.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Huh? It's not semantics at all.

They work from different parts of the floor. Dame has become elite at finishing at the rim. CJ remains elite in the midrange and has the volume. They are very synergistic on offense because they are pretty damn different.

It's on defense where their similarities are.

Its absolutely semantics.
They are the same weak Defenders. They are both a little small for their position. They are both scores ( So they score in different ways) they both have a 3pt game and they can both get to the hoop.

Come on. You are arguing semantics. OVERALL, they are very similar.

The fact is we have two high scoring guards who don't play enough D to compensate for their offensive skills. How they score is irrelevant at this point.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Perhaps, but what I'm getting at is that we are better with them both on the floor on offense. They have divergent enough skills offensively to make us a top team on that end. And they don't necessarily need to be moved. If GS keeping Klay over Love has taught us anything, it's that there is value in building a team's strengths (shooting, P&R play, elite ball handling from 2 positions, etc) vs giving up that strength in a trade to build a more conventional team.

How many other teams have 2 guys like Dame and CJ for 48 mins? We have something most other teams don't. Now build on that by finding guys that complement these two and mitigate their weaknesses.

I just think we're too hellbent on giving up the one thing we do have in chase of something we hope to have.

Right. So that guy can foul out every third game because he is overwhelmed with the obsurd amount of guards he is having to cover that come streaking at him.

 

[blue9]

Perhaps, but what I'm getting at is that we are better with them both on the floor on offense. They have divergent enough skills offensively to make us a top team on that end. And they don't necessarily need to be moved. If GS keeping Klay over Love has taught us anything, it's that there is value in building a team's strengths (shooting, P&R play, elite ball handling from 2 positions, etc) vs giving up that strength in a trade to build a more conventional team.

How many other teams have 2 guys like Dame and CJ for 48 mins? We have something most other teams don't. Now build on that by finding guys that complement these two and mitigate their weaknesses.

I just think we're too hellbent on giving up the one thing we do have in chase of something we hope to have.

No, I totally get what you're saying. And I've said in many a thread that I would like to see what Dame/CJ could do under a better coach before trading one of them. But I also understand the other side of the argument - it's valid, and it may be proven to be correct. But yes, I'd really like to see Dame/CJ with one legit PF/C and a good coach before giving up on one of them. Unfortunately I think Olshey is going to do it in reverse order and keep Stotts longer than CJ.

 

[illmatic99]

No, I totally get what you're saying. And I've said in many a thread that I would like to see what Dame/CJ could do under a better coach before trading one of them. But I also understand the other side of the argument - it's valid, and it may be proven to be correct. But yes, I'd really like to see Dame/CJ with one legit PF/C and a good coach before giving up on one of them. Unfortunately I think Olshey is going to do it in reverse order and keep Stotts longer than CJ.

Exactly. We are in year 2 of this Dame/CJ thing. And last year (for all intents and purposes) was a success. Just because we have failed so far this year, we can't scrap the big picture plan.

 

[Minstrel]

Huh? It's not semantics at all.

They work from different parts of the floor. Dame has become elite at finishing at the rim. CJ remains elite in the midrange and has the volume. They are very synergistic on offense because they are pretty damn different.

It's on defense where their similarities are.

The main offensive duplication is that they're both at their best with the ball in their hands. Note, I said "best," not that they can't be valuable off the ball. Having both your stars requiring the ball (and, in this context, by "needing the ball," I mean being the main initiator) to be at their best isn't perfectly ideal. That's not the big problem--the big problem is their defensive and size similarities--but it simply adds one more minor issue to the large one.

If they were great defenders, I wouldn't worry much about that issue on offense. But a player who's offensive value is more wrapped up in finishing and brings excellent defensive value would be a better overall fit, in my opinion.

 

[illmatic99]

But a player who's offensive value is more wrapped up in finishing and brings excellent defensive value would be a better overall fit, in my opinion.

Do you mean in exchange for CJ/Dame or next to them?

 

[Denny Crane]

Which one plays defense?

 

[Minstrel]

Do you mean in exchange for CJ/Dame or next to them?

Instead of one of them. I mean, if you can get a third star without giving up Lillard or Gollum, that'd be great--but if I could transform Lillard or McCollum into someone like Butler or Cousins*, I would.

*Pending willingness to re-sign in Portland