Have we given up on the rookies?

[Rastapopoulos]

Maybe I'm getting old, but it just seems too soon after getting excited about this crew that we're supposed to get excited about more rookies. Are we just going to write off this bunch?

(I'm still intrigued by Williams, and I think Johnson could be a good change-of-pace combo guard off the bench, but I confess I've pretty much given up on Babbitt already. And he's a reason I'm not feeling too great about Buchanan and Born taking over...)

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Ugh, I hope this years draft isn't as big of a DUD last years was.

 

[oldmangrouch]

After the last 2 drafts, it is tough to be excited or confident.

 

[RR7]

No, yes, and no, in order of that picture. I gave up on Babbit before we ever had him. Wanted nothing to do with him before the draft, saw he'd be gone before we were supposed to draft, and was happy/laughing at the team that was going to take him. Then....bam. If we can get someone to think he's ok, I'd move him instantly. 2nd rounder. Sure. Do not care.

 

[Rhal]

I really like both of the guards. They both have a lot of potential the big problem with Johnson is his ability to shoot the ball and finish at the rim. I'd like to keep him and see if he can develop a shot because his defense and quickness really intrigue me.
Babbit I think i'm one of the few on this board who still likes this kid and hasn't given up on him. He can shoot the three (with very limited minutes he hasn't shot it great) and likes to put the ball on the ground and drive towards the rim. I'll give him another year before throwing in the towel on him.
Williams is the most interesting of all the players we drafted. He would have been a top 10 pick if his knees hadn't scared people away. Unbelievably athletic guard who is supposed to be able to shoot the ball as well. Does not have great court vision and only decent ball handling skills, he is not a point guard but more of a comb-guard. I really want to see Williams play and I have high hopes for him.

-edit realized I didn't say anything about keeping or letting them go so added it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

After the last 2 drafts, it is tough to be excited or confident.

Actually, I wouldn't mind another Claver-like draft. If we ended up with Lucas Nogueira, for example, and stashed him in Spain for a few years that would be fine. Even better would be to move up a little and get Biyombo, and stash HIM for a little. Perhaps if we think about this year's draft as if it was for our minor leagues, and think of getting Freeland/Claver to come over as other people look at the draft...

But it seems very unlikely that whomever we draft is actually going to see any meaningful time for the Blazers, so why care?

(But if we get Jimmy Butler in the second round, that would be okay...)

 

[<-=*PdX*=->]

Is this thread serious? Give up? Give up on what? There was never any hope for these guys...

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Babbitt is about as bad as they come defensively. Joe Alexander 2.0. KP's parting shot at PA

 

[Nikolokolus]

Babbit struck me as Ammo/Luke Jackson part II the moment they drafted him, I think he's probably never going to do a damn thing in the league. Armon I'm not real sure about; he looks athletic enough, but instead of gradually improving, he looked to be gradually regressing as the year wore on, I'd give him a 5% chance to stick. Williams is a complete unknown, who the hell knows if he can be a player or not.

 

[julius]

you spelled "franchise" wrong. as in "have we given up on the franchise".

 

[Ed O]

But it seems very unlikely that whomever we draft is actually going to see any meaningful time for the Blazers, so why care?

We don't have a backup PG or a backup PF. I don't think it's unrealistic to hope to get a guy in the mid first round who can fill one of those two roles as a rookie.

I'm not giving up on any of the guys from last year (Babbitt still is an excellent shooter, and it could "click" for him), but it'd be nice to get a guy who actually can help the team in the short run.

Ed O.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I haven't given up on any of them yet.

Williams hasn't played and therefore who knows how he will do.

Babbitt had a long ways to go catching up with the speed of the NBA game, but sometimes players like him take 2 or 3 years to develop. I can easily see him as a Korver type off the bench eventually. Maybe not, but it's not time yet to throw in the towel.

As to Johnson, I like his size and strength for a PG, but he hasn't gotten it together. I'd hate to see them give up on him just yet and maybe he will develop into a backup PG of value.

 

[KingSpeed]

Can't call Williams a bust yet. Dude will become top 15 SG in this league one day.

 

[tester551]

No, yes, and no, in order of that picture. I gave up on Babbit before we ever had him. Wanted nothing to do with him before the draft, saw he'd be gone before we were supposed to draft, and was happy/laughing at the team that was going to take him. Then....bam. If we can get someone to think he's ok, I'd move him instantly. 2nd rounder. Sure. Do not care.

Spot on...

 

[MARIS61]

It's been a few years since we drafted an NBA quality player. I doubt we'll get one this year either.

 

[MARIS61]

We don't have a backup PG or a backup PF. I don't think it's unrealistic to hope to get a guy in the mid first round who can fill one of those two roles as a rookie.
Ed O.

Same needs we've had for 2-3 years.

What makes this draft different?

 

[Pinwheel1]

The question should be have we given up on Buchanan? I shudder to think that you guys know more about the draft than he does.

There is no conspiracy here. He and KP liked what they saw while scouting Williams and Babbitt. To think that you guys can watch them in limited action and know their skill level, while our head of scouting missed so badly, even after hundreds of hours of scouting them...... well quite frankly it scares the shit out of me. I am not be a smart ass here, it truely does scare me.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

We don't have a backup PG or a backup PF. I don't think it's unrealistic to hope to get a guy in the mid first round who can fill one of those two roles as a rookie.

I'm not giving up on any of the guys from last year (Babbitt still is an excellent shooter, and it could "click" for him), but it'd be nice to get a guy who actually can help the team in the short run.

Ed O.

Babbitt is 6'9" in shoes with a nearly 7' wingspan and good strength measurements despite his lighter weight. Given his size and lack of speed, I think Babbitt needs to be looked at as a stretch 4, not as a 3. If he is in fact a decent shooter, he could be very valuable in that role.

 

[B-Roy]

Babbitt is 6'9" in shoes with a nearly 7' wingspan and good strength measurements despite his lighter weight. Given his size and lack of speed, I think Babbitt needs to be looked at as a stretch 4, not as a 3. If he is in fact a decent shooter, he could be very valuable in that role.

His ceiling IMO, is a poor man's Travis Outlaw.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

His ceiling IMO, is a poor man's Travis Outlaw.

I don't know why it would have to be a "poor man's" version. Sure he has less athleticism, and likely lacks the ability to create his own shot; but surely his BBIQ is higher (how could it not be), and he certainly has the tools to be a superior shooter and defender (at the 4 spot).

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I do think/hope that Williams will be a very good role player soon. I cant figure out Johnson.

 

[STOMP]

I haven't given up on any of them yet.

Williams hasn't played and therefore who knows how he will do.

Babbitt had a long ways to go catching up with the speed of the NBA game, but sometimes players like him take 2 or 3 years to develop. I can easily see him as a Korver type off the bench eventually. Maybe not, but it's not time yet to throw in the towel.

As to Johnson, I like his size and strength for a PG, but he hasn't gotten it together. I'd hate to see them give up on him just yet and maybe he will develop into a backup PG of value.

basically thats my take. None of these guys were expected to set the world on fire and be contributing much in their first year. Babbitt and Johnson were making huge leaps in competition and Williams was injured. I'd expect they get more opportunity to sink or swim with a year under their belts. If one or more takes off it wouldn't be the first time a rookie showed little and then came on. Being on cheap rookie deals makes it easy to have some patience for me at least

STOMP

 

[3RA1N1AC]

im not giving up on babbitt yet, he got zero PT more or less, and if we happened to whiff on the 14th pick, shit happens.

ewill is gonna be good i think

armon could easily be a greg anthony type off the bench if he can get any kind of jumper

i still have hopes for slam dunk champ and rising acb star claver

i still have hopes for one of the best bigs in acb freeland

no idea about koponen but why not, i think he could come over here as a physical blake type

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We don't have a backup PG or a backup PF. I don't think it's unrealistic to hope to get a guy in the mid first round who can fill one of those two roles as a rookie.

So you're assuming we're moving up?
Do you have any players in mind? I always dream of the next Alvin Williams. I'd settle for the next Robert Pack.

But actually for both of those positions, I'm kind of hoping we fill them with veterans rather than rookies. My vote for backup PG goes to Pablo Prigioni (yet again). The difference in previous years is that he's actually a free agent and his team (Real Madrid) seems to be going with a youth movement, and might want to give Sergio the reins, just because he fits with more of a running style. Prigioni is getting on (34), but he's still (and always will be) younger than Andre, and can hit a three point shot.
As for backup PF, I don't know, but I have a feeling Chris Johnson would be of more immediate use than anyone available where we pick (unless it's that Faried guy, but he's a bit like Gerald Wallace).

I'm not giving up on any of the guys from last year

Let me guess - they're young and have POTENTIAL.

(Babbitt still is an excellent shooter, and it could "click" for him)

MAYbe. I guess we can look to Kyle Korver for a possible antecedent. But if he's more of a "stretch four" then he needs to REALLY start working out. Then he can be "a short Ryan Anderson".

but it'd be nice to get a guy who actually can help the team in the short run.

EXACTLY, and you're much more likely to get that in trade or free agency.

Oddly enough, I think the optimal strategy these days is to use first round picks on pure potential, preferably foreign potential, so that it can be developed without taking a roster spot. That's the Claver/Freeland route, and that's why I think that Brazilian kid Nogueira makes sense. Then you use the second round pick on a mature four-year kid who can come right in and help (the Cunningham method). That particularly applies to undersized hustling 4s or "crafty" PGs. Charles Jenkins of Hofstra comes to mind, or possibly that Baylor PG who reminds me of Sherman Douglas.

 

[Blaze01]

POR track record since 2007 is pretty bad....and one of the remaining architects of those drafts (Chad Buchanan) is heading the show this year, and his track record, to put it bluntly fucking sucks....Oh well him and Bert Kolde and Paul Allen....

A little refresher?

2010
Babbit, Williams, Johnson (POR got NOTHING out of all 3 of these players)

Who did they miss on? Kevin Seraphin, Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Greiveis Vasquez, Landry Fields, Hassan Whiteside

2009
Victor Claver, Cunningham, Pendergraph & Mills

Who did they miss on? How about these 3 players who went with the 3 picks before them Jrue Holiday, Eric Maynor & Darren Collison
After Claver? Omri Casspi (better production than Claver or Cunningham), Rodrique Beaubois, Taj Gibson, Dejuan Blair, Jonas Jerebko, Marcus Thornton, Chase Budinger, Toney Douglas

2008
Jerryd Bayless & Nic Batum (DEFINITELY a good pick)

Who did they miss? Robin Lopez, Javale McGee, Maresse Speights, Roy Hibbert, JJ Hickson, Serge Ibaka, Anthony Randolph, DeAndre Jordan, Omer Asik, George Hill, Goran Dragic

2007
Greg Oden, Rudy Fernandez, Peteri Koponen

Who did they miss? Aaron Brooks, Aaron Afflalo, Tiago Splitter, Carl Landry, Marc Gasol, Glen Davis

2006
LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Joel Freeland (home run draft?)

Who did they miss (after Freeland)? Not a lot.....Daniel Gibson & Paul Millsap

2006 notwithstanding, for all of the wheeling & dealing, acquired draft picks POR in the last 4 years have had 1 pick (Batum) pan out, a big donut on all of the euros to date and missed BADLY in the 2009 draft. The track record is not good at all...

I mean at this point, do we pray for luck? b\c I don't trust the skill of Buchanan and our scouting staff or the "gut instincts" of Al Davis...err....Allen & his little buddy, Kolde....

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Hasnt MB said that Babbitt has looked real good in practice & scrimmage games? I know its not the real deal, but it gives me hope.

 

[RR7]

Hasnt MB said that Babbitt has looked real good in practice & scrimmage games? I know its not the real deal, but it gives me hope.

I think he's said it before. I just feel like if he actually did, Nate would put him in. he had no problem playing Armon early on. No problem playing Chris Johnson. No problems playing many other rookies. And we didn't have nearly the injury issues.

 

[PapaG]

I think Elliot Williams had lottery talent. I remember Chad Ford being a bit pissed at KP after the firing because he felt KP misled Ford about some health issues with Williams, which Ford reported. Turns out KP wasn't misleading Ford, and was perhaps being a bit too honest. Williams isn't supposed to lose any athleticism. While we've heard that about other players before, even if Williams loses 6" off of his vertical, he will still be at 42".

Babbitt will need to hit his 3s consistently or he won't last in the NBA. I think it's as simple as that with him. Johnson seems like a hustle player who could develop into a decent back-up in a few years, if he is given the time to develop.

 

[PapaG]

I think he's said it before. I just feel like if he actually did, Nate would put him in. he had no problem playing Armon early on. No problem playing Chris Johnson. No problems playing many other rookies. And we didn't have nearly the injury issues.

Or, he is playing well offensively in practice, because "game" intensity on defense isn't seen in practice. Defense takes effort, and I'm going to guess that most players aren't playing as hard defensively in practice as they are in games.

 

[Drttimmy]

I thought the picks were solid for the reasons given at the time: Armon a strong length of floor defender; Williams a superior athlete tutored between two elite college programs; Babbitt a hybrid 4 with supposedly the best shot in the draft. Seemed good. We need more shooters, need more athletes on the wings.

So far....Armon can't do much beside defend fullcourt....Williams hurt... Babbitt apparently not an NBA shooter. You shouldn't judge after a season, but I'd be shocked if Babbitt amounts to anything. He didn't even shoot well or dominate in garbage time. I still have high hopes for Williams. He has the athleticism to create and get his own shot, so critical in the NBA. He looked invisible in preseason though, and after a year on the shelf, it might take 2 years before he makes us take notice. Depressing.