Have you read the Koran?

[MarAzul]

How else can you get a sense of why there are Fatwas calling for Jihad against the West and especially the United States and it's people.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

You don't want to get into this conversation.

 

[MarAzul]

You don't want to get into this conversation.

Does that mean you have read the book?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I have. Have you? Is the question you're asking in your original post a sincere one?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i prefer palms and mammal bones

 

[MarAzul]

I have. Have you? Is the question you're asking in your original post a sincere one?

Yes and Yes.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Religion of Peace? Islamic Militants Kill 30 In Nigeria School Attack setting some children on fire while they are still alive.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Religion of Peace? Islamic Militants Kill 30 In Nigeria School Attack setting some children on fire while they are still alive.

Not relevant.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Yes and Yes.

Okay so are you then saying that the fatwas made against the West is due to the Qur'an? Or...?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

yall trying to get us on an enemy watch list or something?

god bless america

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not relevant.

I know. Just saw it on Reddit and thought I would have some fun.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not relevant.

Christian cult leader Warren Jeff's 50 wives!

Taste the rainbow!

 

[MarAzul]

Okay so are you then saying that the fatwas made against the West is due to the Qur'an? Or...?

I suspect the people of Islam are defiantly influenced by the Koran. I gather a great many of them
view the people of the United States a a nation of Infidels. A few years back when the cut the head of that reporter and showed it on TV, seemed to me to be a reenactment from the Koran.

"Take him by the right hand and cut through the vein of the Neck, only the infidel will care"

Technically a Jew or a Christian is not considered and infidel but whoa to the rest, heh?

"Verily, they who believe, and the Jews, and the Sabeites,26 and the
Christians hoever of them believeth in God and in the last day,
and doth what is right, on them shall come no fear, neither shall
they be put to grief.
Of old we accepted the covenant of the children of Israel, and sent
Apostles to them. Oft as an Apostle came to them with that for
which they had no desire, some they treated as liars, and some
they slew;27
And they reckoned that no harm would come of it: but they
became blind and deaf! Then was God turned unto them: then
many of them again became blind and deaf! but God beheld what
they did.
Infidels now are they who say, "God is the Messiah, Son of
Mary;" for the Messiah said, "O children of Israel! worship God,
my Lord and your Lord." Whoever shall join other gods with God,
God shall forbid him the Garden, and his abode shall be the Fire;
and the wicked shall have no helpers.
They surely are Infidels who say, "God is the third of three:" for
there is no God but one God: and if they refrain not from what
they say, a grievous chastisement shall light on such of them as
are Infidels."


How to deal with the infidel is a salient lesson though out the Koran.
Rather chilling to any that suspect they might be considered infidels in the eyes of
the Muslims.

 

[Further]

I suspect the people of Islam are defiantly influenced by the Koran. I gather a great many of them
view the people of the United States a a nation of Infidels.

Interesting

A few years back when the cut the head of that reporter and showed it on TV, seemed to me to be a reenactment from the Koran.

Was TV mentioned in the Koran

"Take him by the right hand and cut through the vein of the Neck, only the infidel will care"

Technically a Jew or a Christian is not considered and infidel but whoa to the rest, heh?

I don't think you should be throwing stones

 

[Further]

All religion is hosed garbage.

 

[Further]

I have not read the Koran, so my information is very limited. I have read the Torah and so have a good deal of understanding of the blood and violence it encourages.

 

[MarAzul]

Interesting

Was TV mentioned in the Koran

I don't think you should be throwing stones

should read "definitely influenced"

No TV.

What Stones and Why?

Have your read it?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Christian cult leader Warren Jeff's 50 wives!

Taste the rainbow!

watched a doc about all the kids there, they usually banish the boys for watching tv or burping at the dinner table, to cut out the competition for the sweet 13 year old wives

 

[MarAzul]

I have not read the Koran, so my information is very limited. I have read the Torah and so have a good deal of understanding of the blood and violence it encourages.

No, not much instruction on what to do with non believers.

There is quite a difference. But then I haven't heard of any Jews or Ribbi issuing any statements calling for Jihad lately. Have you?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I suspect the people of Islam are defiantly influenced by the Koran. I gather a great many of them
view the people of the United States a a nation of Infidels. A few years back when the cut the head of that reporter and showed it on TV, seemed to me to be a reenactment from the Koran.

"Take him by the right hand and cut through the vein of the Neck, only the infidel will care"

Technically a Jew or a Christian is not considered and infidel but whoa to the rest, heh?

"Verily, they who believe, and the Jews, and the Sabeites,26 and the
Christians hoever of them believeth in God and in the last day,
and doth what is right, on them shall come no fear, neither shall
they be put to grief.
Of old we accepted the covenant of the children of Israel, and sent
Apostles to them. Oft as an Apostle came to them with that for
which they had no desire, some they treated as liars, and some
they slew;27
And they reckoned that no harm would come of it: but they
became blind and deaf! Then was God turned unto them: then
many of them again became blind and deaf! but God beheld what
they did.
Infidels now are they who say, "God is the Messiah, Son of
Mary;" for the Messiah said, "O children of Israel! worship God,
my Lord and your Lord." Whoever shall join other gods with God,
God shall forbid him the Garden, and his abode shall be the Fire;
and the wicked shall have no helpers.
They surely are Infidels who say, "God is the third of three:" for
there is no God but one God: and if they refrain not from what
they say, a grievous chastisement shall light on such of them as
are Infidels."


How to deal with the infidel is a salient lesson though out the Koran.
Rather chilling to any that suspect they might be considered infidels in the eyes of
the Muslims.

MarAzul, there is a lot to talk about here, so I need to ask you a few questions first.

1. What is your understanding of the history of Islam?
2. What is your understanding of the current beliefs of mainstream Muslims?
3. What is your understanding of the cultures and societies of Muslims?

 

[Further]

No, not much instruction on what to do with non believers.

Deuteronomy 13: 12-15
12 “If you hear in one of your cities, which the Lord your God is giving you to dwell there, 13 that certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, 14 then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15 you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction,[a] all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

croisades nouveau

 

[Sedatedfork]

I don't know how to read Korean

 

[Further]

I don't know how to read Korean

With kimchi

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I don't know how to read Korean

hahahahaha

 

[MarAzul]

MarAzul, there is a lot to talk about here, so I need to ask you a few questions first.

1. What is your understanding of the history of Islam?
2. What is your understanding of the current beliefs of mainstream Muslims?
3. What is your understanding of the cultures and societies of Muslims?

I certainly am not a historian on the subject but here is a bit that I have read or seen.

Islam was founded around 600 ad by the prophet Muhammad. He was the last of the prophets to come to men, one about every 600 years or so for several 1000 years. See the Book The sixteen Saviors. Notice they haven't been coming lately, but then on the other hand, maybe they have and I just don't know.

I know little about the main stream beliefs of the Muslims other than what I have read in the Koran. I have been to Turkey and Muslim areas around the South China Sea.. In my youth I took part in freeing some hostages from some of those guys. They were more than happy to take any infidels they could get as a hostage. As one put it, you may take him if you pay more than he is worth to feed the dogs. We didn't pay though.

Ephesus in Turkey is an interesting place, the guides there are enthusiastic about showing visitors about. I went there once when cruising the islands of the Aegean Sea by Sailboat and had stopped in Bodrum for a look. Took a bus from there to Ephesus. They are quite pleased to talk a great deal about Paul and his days in Ephesus. I take it he annoyed the crap out of the locals there so they jailed him for some time. The guides, all Muslims, get a hoot out of telling that tale with a gleam in their eye.
I couldn't help but chuckle at their joy of sticking it to the big Christian Paul.

Then we have the American variety. Here is a sample of their stuff, I don't know, maybe it's a Fatwa too.

http://www.thenationofislam.org/greateststoryevertold.html

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I certainly am not a historian on the subject but here is a bit that I have read or seen.

Islam was founded around 600 ad by the prophet Muhammad. He was the last of the prophets to come to men, one about every 600 years or so for several 1000 years. See the Book The sixteen Saviors. Notice they haven't been coming lately, but then on the other hand, maybe they have and I just don't know.

I know little about the main stream beliefs of the Muslims other than what I have read in the Koran. I have been to Turkey and Muslim areas around the South China Sea.. In my youth I took part in freeing some hostages from some of those guys. They were more than happy to take any infidels they could get as a hostage. As one put it, you may take him if you pay more than he is worth to feed the dogs. We didn't pay though.

Ephesus in Turkey is an interesting place, the guides there are enthusiastic about showing visitors about. I went there once when cruising the islands of the Aegean Sea by Sailboat and had stopped in Bodrum for a look. Took a bus from there to Ephesus. They are quite pleased to talk a great deal about Paul and his days in Ephesus. I take it he annoyed the crap out of the locals there so they jailed him for some time. The guides, all Muslims, get a hoot out of telling that tale with a gleam in their eye.
I couldn't help but chuckle at their joy of sticking it to the big Christian Paul.

Then we have the American variety. Here is a sample of their stuff, I don't know, maybe it's a Fatwa too.

http://www.thenationofislam.org/greateststoryevertold.html

Alright. So, from what I can tell, what you know about Islam is based on personal experience dealing with Muslims while in the military(?). Also, the Nation of Islam is not "The American variety" of Islam. It's a totally divergent thing.

So, let's move on and try to answer your question. Do you know what a fatwa is?

 

[MarAzul]

Alright. So, from what I can tell, what you know about Islam is based on personal experience dealing with Muslims while in the military(?). Also, the Nation of Islam is not "The American variety" of Islam. It's a totally divergent thing.

So, let's move on and try to answer your question. Do you know what a fatwa is?

Fatwa
a legal pronouncement in Islam. or
a legal opinion or ruling issued by an Islamic scholar.

Ben Laden issued three unfavorable to Americans so I have read. I also see some Cleric issued
a Fatwa calling for the killing of the Ambassador in Benghazi. So much for a friggin home made video.


What? The Nation of Islam is not part of Islam? Interesting. But then I suppose the Catholics
don't exactly consider the Mormons part of the same religion either.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Fatwa
a legal pronouncement in Islam. or
a legal opinion or ruling issued by an Islamic scholar.

Good.

Ben Laden issued three unfavorable to Americans so I have read. I also see some Cleric issued
a Fatwa calling for the killing of the Ambassador in Benghazi. So much for a friggin home made video.

Right. So you see, fatwas can be issued by any "Islamic scholar." Countless fatwas have been issued by countless imams, and the only people that even care are that imam's followers (and the sensationalist western media.) All Islamic law is "required" to be based on the Qur'an or the Hadith or previous interpretations of them. Since Islamic jurisprudence has a tradition that spans over a thousand years, there are many, many different interpretations of Islamic law. The result is that any modern Islamic "scholar" can issue whatever he wants and be able to find some kind of shaky argument for it in the past. It doesn't have to come from the Qur'an.

What? The Nation of Islam is not part of Islam? Interesting. But then I suppose the Catholics
don't exactly consider the Mormons part of the same religion either.

Exactly. The Nation may think of themselves as Islamic, but Muslims don't share the same view. The Nation of Islam considered their founder as the Messiah of Judiasm in the Mahdi of Islam. Neither Jews nor Muslims think this is true.

 

[MarAzul]

Good.



Right. So you see, fatwas can be issued by any "Islamic scholar." Countless fatwas have been issued by countless imams, and the only people that even care are that imam's followers (and the sensationalist western media.) All Islamic law is "required" to be based on the Qur'an or the Hadith or previous interpretations of them. Since Islamic jurisprudence has a tradition that spans over a thousand years, there are many, many different interpretations of Islamic law. The result is that any modern Islamic "scholar" can issue whatever he wants and be able to find some kind of shaky argument for it in the past. It doesn't have to come from the Qur'an.



Exactly. The Nation may think of themselves as Islamic, but Muslims don't share the same view. The Nation of Islam considered their founder as the Messiah of Judiasm in the Mahdi of Islam. Neither Jews nor Muslims think this is true.

Well wonderful we completely agree. So now I need to convince our leadership to quit this baloney about radical Islam. The basis for the Fatwas and Jihad is in Islam.

We need to follow the teachings of Sun Tzu and go for the leader that issued the Fatwa and forget about how some followers became radicalized. Fighting the grunts won't get er done. Perhaps we need to help restore a Caliph who can help put down these unruly Fatwa issuing Imams and or back off the Fatwas they issue. Or know the reason why you have a problem. Ben Laden sitting out there for more than 10 years unmolested is baloney and worse yet his Fatwas still stand.