He actually went!

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I've read some articles about how brutal it is playing in Turkey (Even if his team is the Lakers of that league). They must be taking care of him bigtime to lure him over!
 
If you were posting this from turkey, the thread would read "He actually came!"

:MARIS61:
 
I've read some articles about how brutal it is playing in Turkey (Even if his team is the Lakers of that league). They must be taking care of him bigtime to lure him over!

lets see....stay in amurrica (NJ even) or....chill in europe on yachts in turkey banging eastern european hookers.
 

I read this a few days ago and thought, the article boils down to the following. Grunfeld cites the worst trip he ever had, in which he shared a room with a player in a non-luxury hotel. They flew commercial and coach (though often they just take a bus because cities are close in Europe), which means crowded legs, no free sandwiches, and bringing your luggage up to check-in. They get a realistic per diem for meals (he says in the NBA, you just save most of it; it's way more than necessary).

He compares these accomodations to the NBA, but shouldn't he be comparing European leagues to the D-League? That's where 99% of the players there would play. It's just as relevant to compare Europeans paying for their own sandwiches, to high school buses stopping at a McDonalds on the freeway return trip.
 
I wonder why the supposed smart people that are handling these dumb ass professional athletes aren't telling them that by going overseas they are probably weakening the players union overall stance?
 
I wonder why the supposed smart people that are handling these dumb ass professional athletes aren't telling them that by going overseas they are probably weakening the players union overall stance?

How does it weaken the union stance?
 
How does it weaken the union stance?

Union = united, or as one

If some guys are going over seas and earning millions, while others aren't, it weakens them in several ways.

1. Unions have a much stronger bargaining position if the union has solidarity. If a portion of your union is making millions of dollars while others are losing their homes, it doesn't help your position.

2. It hurts their stance on arguing that the owners are taking away their ability to earn a living.

3. It hurts public perception when we all know they can go over seas and still make more than most of the fans that go to their games.
 
All 3 of those points concern public perception, whom to cheer. None of those points affect the negotiators at the table, who care far more about maximizing their money than of what someone might think of them for doing so.

You're thinking from a fan's perspective, not that of an owner or player. When you negotiate a raise with your boss, do you factor in what George in Peoria might think of you?
 
if the players can make a living while negotiating, it lessens their need to cave in to a bad deal MM
 
All 3 of those points concern public perception, whom to cheer. None of those points affect the negotiators at the table, who care far more about maximizing their money than of what someone might think of them for doing so.

You're thinking from a fan's perspective, not that of an owner or player. When you negotiate a raise with your boss, do you factor in what George in Peoria might think of you?



I am thinking from both a union and union point of view. God forgive me, but I worked for a union for several years. I was even a shop steward for three years. I understand how the negotiations work a little, and losing the solidarity of the union is a big deal. Remember, to a union, Armon Johnson's say is just as important as Lebron James'. Each get a vote, and if some millionaires are overseas earning more millions, while guys on 1 year deals are wondering if they will have a job next year, there will be problems
 
No it doesn't because not all of them can.

we will disagree i guess

unless of course you are hearing stories from your sources that players are looking to play and arent able to, im going to assume there are jobs to be had
 
we will disagree i guess

unless of course you are hearing stories from your sources that players are looking to play and arent able to, im going to assume there are jobs to be had


Yep agree to disagree.
 
I guess I'm with MM on this one.
jlprk said:
You're thinking from a fan's perspective, not that of an owner or player. When you negotiate a raise with your boss, do you factor in what George in Peoria might think of you?
When I negotiate with my boss, I don't try to strengthen my position by doing the same job for an inferior competitor for way less money.
 
I guess I'm with MM on this one.
When I negotiate with my boss, I don't try to strengthen my position by doing the same job for an inferior competitor for way less money.

but if you could make enough money on the side, you might be willing to take a more hard line stance maybe? meh
 
When I negotiate with my boss, I don't try to strengthen my position by doing the same job for an inferior competitor for way less money.

You think that wasting away in unemployment, increasingly desperate because you're bringing in no money, puts fear into your opponent at the negotiating table? It strengthens his hand. It emboldens him.

An old trick when you're offered a job is to say you'll get back to the hiring agent in a day, after you check on another job you've just been offered. It drives up your value. Next day, you call back and ask for a little more than they offered.

I almost expected this stupid trick, they pulled it on me so often. Like, about half the times. Women especially. They think they're clever and it's the first time you've ever seen it.

And then there's the old women's trick of pretending you have competition in romance...

Did you just get off the banana boat? You ought to check out the modern landlubber customs.
 
thats the thing, the players arent in trouble of not getting the job per se...there IS going to be a cba eventually, so its not like they have to worry about a "take it or leave it" type deal, because the owners will always be back with another offer

if they can make the OWNERS sweat it out at some point, they will be where they want to be
 
you're mixing situations.

You said "negotiating for a raise", which is what the NBA players are effectively doing. I've asked for raises, and at no point did I think a good course of action was to go work for my competitor for less, in order to show how much I was worth.

In your latest post, you're talking about unemployment, which is a different scenario. In that one, it's akin to being unemployed but wanting to work for Microsoft. Sure, you and I might take a job tending bar to get by until we can get a "good job" again, but it doesn't help our negotiating position asking for a high starting salary to have "Joe's Bar" as the latest bullet on the C.V.

There's literally no benefit I can see from the union's perspective to have some players playing in Turkey/China/Lithuania. The owners don't need this year--for the ones that have been losing money it's a godsend not to have to pay salaries, especially if there's hope for a more fiscally constrained environment. Players can't say "we're worth more than what you're currently giving us", b/c you have people like Deron figuratively prostituting themselves for peanuts all over the globe.

It's like the anecdote:
Winston Churchill said:
■Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Woman: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Woman: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!
Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.

I have a hard time believing that players can afford a wait-it-out approach more than owners. Fiscally, physically, contractually. The players will have to give at some point. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but I think it's folly to think the players will "win" any part of this deal at all.
 
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MOST owners don't rely on their NBA franchises to pay their bills. In fact some will come out ahead if there is no season. It will be much easier for the owners to wait out the players, and both sides know that
 
You guys have fallen hook, line, and sinker for the line that the heroic martyrs who own teams are losing money and have invested their $300M in an albatross for the public good.

(Brian will note that this banana boat landlubber is in a seagoing mood today.)
 
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I think BrianFromWA has it right. By playing over seas for much less money, the players are proving they can and will play for much less money. The more players who do so, the weaker the bargaining position of the group. So far, I think the impact is probably pretty insignificant, but if more players do it, I can see it harming the union's position.
 
I think BrianFromWA has it right. By playing over seas for much less money, the players are proving they can and will play for much less money. The more players who do so, the weaker the bargaining position of the group. So far, I think the impact is probably pretty insignificant, but if more players do it, I can see it harming the union's position.

He must have me on ignore?
 

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