High Scoring

[KingSpeed]

So as I may have mentioned in another thread. The Nets scored 123 last night and the Warriors scored 131. They both lost.

I looked up our entire playoff run in 2000. In the entire 16 games we played, only 6 times (out of 32 possible outcomes) did either team score at least a 100. The most that was scored was 109 by the Lakers in game 1 of WCF. The most we scored was 106 in game 2 of that series.

What has happened to this league? It’s a completely different league. Crazy. We almost went to the Finals without scoring more than 106 in the entire run!!!

 

[Hobbesarable]

So as I may have mentioned in another thread. The Nets scored 123 last night and the Warriors scored 131. They both lost.

I looked up our entire playoff run in 2000. In the entire 16 games we played, only 6 times (out of 32 possible outcomes) did either team score at least a 100. The most that was scored was 109 by the Lakers in game 1 of WCF. The most we scored was 106 in game 2 of that series.

What has happened to this league? It’s a completely different league. Crazy. We almost went to the Finals without scoring more than 106 in the entire run!!!

More 3-point shooting and less defense. It's not that difficult to see the difference from 2000 to 2019.

 

[Minstrel]

More 3-point shooting and less defense. It's not that difficult to see the difference from 2000 to 2019.

There isn't less defense, in the sense that players are worse at defense, or less committed to defense or that defensive schemes are worse. I'm reasonably sure that a good defensive team from this era would completely suffocate offenses from the '80s and '90s, because they were far easier to defend. Offenses these days stretch defenses to the breaking point because offensive players are simply more skilled overall--shooting and passing are more in demand, at every position. The very idea of point centers or power forwards being important outside threats would have been considered laughable in the '80s. And offensive schemes have evolved to take advantage of these more skilled players.

 

[Hobbesarable]

There isn't less defense, in the sense that players are worse at defense, or less committed to defense or that defensive schemes are worse. I'm reasonably sure that a good defensive team from this era would completely suffocate offenses from the '80s and '90s, because they were far easier to defend. Offenses these days stretch defenses to the breaking point because offensive players are simply more skilled overall--shooting and passing are more in demand, at every position. The very idea of point centers or power forwards being important outside threats would have been considered laughable in the '80s. And offensive schemes have evolved to take advantage of these more skilled players.

I was indirectly referring to rule changes since 2000 and that directly affecting defense (players and schemes).

 

[Minstrel]

Iwas indirectly referring to rule changes since 2000 and that directly affecting defense (players and schemes).

The lack of hand-checking? Yeah, that helped offenses, but they also removed the illegal defense rule, allowing teams to construct zone defenses that have really helped defenses.

 

[kjironman1]

Bring back the hand check and the hard foul I always say!

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Fuck 2000... the current era is the most exciting and enjoyable basketball I’ve ever watched!

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The lack of hand-checking? Yeah, that helped offenses, but they also removed the illegal defense rule, allowing teams to construct zone defenses that have really helped defenses.

The rules definitely favor the offenses. Hand Checking is the obvious one but in 2009 they changed the traveling rule to allow more steps, NBA officials have almost always favored offensive stars anyways.

I personally find the 3 point shooting barrage while exciting takes away a lot of what I enjoyed about basketball growing up.

Ive read the rules for illegal screens and I watch basketball a lot and I honestly cannot tell you why they call some screens fouls and others not. This isn't an anti refs rant. Just that this is not my favorite of era of NBA basketball.

 

[Minstrel]

The rules definitely favor the offenses. Hand Checking is the obvious one but in 2009 they changed the traveling rule to allow more steps, NBA officials have almost always favored offensive stars anyways.

I've read articles where coaches complain that taking away illegal defense and allowing zones gives too much benefit to the defense. So I'm not at all convinced that defense is harder to play today than it was in the 1980s or 1990s. As I said, I think good defenses from today would ruin offenses from the '80s and '90s. I think both offenses and defenses have become much more sophisticated since then.

I personally find the 3 point shooting barrage while exciting takes away a lot of what I enjoyed about basketball growing up.

Well, everyone has their own aesthetic preferences. This is my favorite era of basketball--not necessarily because of the three-point barrage but because the evolution towards positionless basketball, constant player and ball movement on offense and the more audacious shot-making (three-pointers off the dribble, step-backs, 30' three-pointers) makes for a much more free-flowing game. The 2000s were probably the nadir of basketball, with static isolations and offenses operating within a relative phone booth compared to today.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Blazers haven't been high scoring since Kemp and Rider were on the team.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I've read articles where coaches complain that taking away illegal defense and allowing zones gives too much benefit to the defense. So I'm not at all convinced that defense is harder to play today than it was in the 1980s or 1990s. As I said, I think good defenses from today would ruin offenses from the '80s and '90s. I think both offenses and defenses have become much more sophisticated since then.



Well, everyone has their own aesthetic preferences. This is my favorite era of basketball--not necessarily because of the three-point barrage but because the evolution towards positionless basketball, constant player and ball movement on offense and the more audacious shot-making (three-pointers off the dribble, step-backs, 30' three-pointers) makes for a much more free-flowing game. The 2000s were probably the nadir of basketball, with static isolations and offenses operating within a relative phone booth compared to today.

I would say that articles of coaches saying allowing zones and taking away illegal defenses giving benefits to defense, doesnt really mean that playing defense now vs the 80’s or 90’s is easier or harder. They aren't exclusive statements, those rule changes could really help defenses of today and playing defense in the 80’s could still be harder than it is to play today.

Scoring is up (not to where it was in the 60’s and early 70’s), but scoring was way down in the 00’s and those rule changes have obviously benefitted the offenses enough that they’ve climbed pretty quickly.

In terms of “how” teams play I think there has always been a mix, teams shoot and make a lot more three’s then ever before and its perfectly reasonable to enjoy it and heck those Dame step backs and all the three’s are exciting to me too, but at the end of the day Ive always enjoyed ball movement leading to great shots and we are not in that era right now. This years assists per game for the season ranks 18th in NBA history (when comparing all the seasons), the Blazers, OKC, Houston, a lot of teams rely heavily on one or two guys creating a lot of stuff for themselves and thats ok, and I appreciate and respect others enjoy it. I do to, to a point.

I will say this I think the skill of NBA players is at an all time high especially amongst the elites and that is good for the game.

 

[BonesJones]

So as I may have mentioned in another thread. The Nets scored 123 last night and the Warriors scored 131. They both lost.

I looked up our entire playoff run in 2000. In the entire 16 games we played, only 6 times (out of 32 possible outcomes) did either team score at least a 100. The most that was scored was 109 by the Lakers in game 1 of WCF. The most we scored was 106 in game 2 of that series.

What has happened to this league? It’s a completely different league. Crazy. We almost went to the Finals without scoring more than 106 in the entire run!!!

Better Offensive Talent + Better 3pt Shooting + Faster Paced League + Foul Calls Favoring Offensive Players = Higher Scoring League.

 

[BonesJones]

Well, everyone has their own aesthetic preferences. This is my favorite era of basketball--not necessarily because of the three-point barrage but because the evolution towards positionless basketball, constant player and ball movement on offense and the more audacious shot-making (three-pointers off the dribble, step-backs, 30' three-pointers) makes for a much more free-flowing game. The 2000s were probably the nadir of basketball, with static isolations and offenses operating within a relative phone booth compared to today.

I love this era too. People oversimplify it as "Oh, teams are just jacking up a bunch of 3s" but a lot of it is spreading out a defense with spacing, cohesive player and ball movement, good screening, and passing.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I love this era too. People oversimplify it as "Oh, teams are just jacking up a bunch of 3s" but a lot of it is spreading out a defense with spacing, cohesive player and ball movement, good screening, and passing.

Ive always had a thing for 80’s basketball, I dont like the lakers or celtics but the way teams back then passed the ball was so fun to watch.

This era is good (subjectively), but not my favorite. Also it really is kind of a 3 point contest... So far in the playoffs I think the team who has shot better from 3 has won every game.

 

[BonesJones]

Ive always had a thing for 80’s basketball, I dont like the lakers or celtics but the way teams back then passed the ball was so fun to watch.

This era is good (subjectively), but not my favorite. Also it really is kind of a 3 point contest... So far in the playoffs I think the team who has shot better from 3 has won every game.

Theres so much before a 3pt shot that goes I to a quality of the look. And when theres not a whole lot before, you're talking about Dame flying off a hand off or pulling from 30ft and hitting insane shots. Either way, it's fun.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Theres so much before a 3pt shot that goes I to a quality of the look. And when theres not a whole lot before, you're talking about Dame flying off a hand off or pulling from 30ft and hitting insane shots. Either way, it's fun.

Its fun at times, craptastic basketball when its not going in though. Like that Detroit game what in the world was that. Or PG saying I know we cant shoot 3’s we should keep jacking up 3’s. I mean Im ok with that as a Blazer fan, but the Blazers cant really stop them at the rim but 3 point shot is so valuable they’re just stuck in keep jacking them til we knock some down mode.

 

[BonesJones]

Its fun at times, craptastic basketball when its not going in though. Like that Detroit game what in the world was that. Or PG saying I know we cant shoot 3’s we should keep jacking up 3’s. I mean Im ok with that as a Blazer fan, but the Blazers cant really stop them at the rim but 3 point shot is so valuable they’re just stuck in keep jacking them til we knock some down mode.

There will always be crappy basketball, no matter what era.

 

[kjironman1]

Its fun at times, craptastic basketball when its not going in though. Like that Detroit game what in the world was that. Or PG saying I know we cant shoot 3’s we should keep jacking up 3’s. I mean Im ok with that as a Blazer fan, but the Blazers cant really stop them at the rim but 3 point shot is so valuable they’re just stuck in keep jacking them til we knock some down mode.

Yep. Just watched this very thing happen to the Jazz last night. They had good look after good look over and over again and the shot just didn't fall. We are talking 3 open looks from Ingles and a couple more by Rubio. Then two or three more by Mitchell. If even say 5 of those shots fall that game is a totally different game. Houston doesn't run away with it. Teams today rely primarily on the three. When they don't fall they are not built to change speeds and change the type of ball they are playing. Great teams just add more players that can hit more threes. Even Portland is noticeably better when they have that guy other than Dame and CJ that hits a three. Very few "Adjustments" are being made in this game today.

 

[KingSpeed]

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The Blazers have had a few just awesome plays like that this year with some amazing passing (that's really my type of basketball!).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

The 80's the assists per game were great, and that doesn't always mean great ball movement, but I just really just enjoyed that era.

 

[Stevenson]

The league had a competition committee, looking for ways to increase scoring. They made a number of changes in the rules designed to increase game scores. What you see today is a direct result of that effort.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If we played all the games on the moon the reduced gravity would lead to more dunking and reduce injuries.

 

[Orion Bailey]

If we played all the games on the moon the reduced gravity would lead to more dunking and reduce injuries.

And we could just let guys like Harden & Westbrook float out into space to never play ball again!!!!!!

 

[Orion Bailey]

Moon Ball. The next big thing.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

If we played all the games on the moon the reduced gravity would lead to more dunking and reduce injuries.

And more deaths due to lack of oxygen.

 

[Stevenson]

If we played all the games on the moon the reduced gravity would lead to more dunking and reduce injuries.

Talk about a Space Jam!

 

[dviss1]

The rules definitely favor the offenses. Hand Checking is the obvious one but in 2009 they changed the traveling rule to allow more steps, NBA officials have almost always favored offensive stars anyways.

I personally find the 3 point shooting barrage while exciting takes away a lot of what I enjoyed about basketball growing up.

Ive read the rules for illegal screens and I watch basketball a lot and I honestly cannot tell you why they call some screens fouls and others not. This isn't an anti refs rant. Just that this is not my favorite of era of NBA basketball.

The traveling rule has never changed. They just rarely call it.

 

[dviss1]

I've read articles where coaches complain that taking away illegal defense and allowing zones gives too much benefit to the defense. So I'm not at all convinced that defense is harder to play today than it was in the 1980s or 1990s. As I said, I think good defenses from today would ruin offenses from the '80s and '90s. I think both offenses and defenses have become much more sophisticated since then.

There still is illegal defense. It's just called defensive 3.

Also, teams rarely run a zone or press because it just doesn't really work at the NBA level.

 

[stampedehero]

So as I may have mentioned in another thread. The Nets scored 123 last night and the Warriors scored 131. They both lost.

I looked up our entire playoff run in 2000. In the entire 16 games we played, only 6 times (out of 32 possible outcomes) did either team score at least a 100. The most that was scored was 109 by the Lakers in game 1 of WCF. The most we scored was 106 in game 2 of that series.

What has happened to this league? It’s a completely different league. Crazy. We almost went to the Finals without scoring more than 106 in the entire run!!!

Answer: Lack of defense because the refs are more picky than ever.

 

[stampedehero]

Ive always had a thing for 80’s basketball, I dont like the lakers or celtics but the way teams back then passed the ball was so fun to watch.

This era is good (subjectively), but not my favorite. Also it really is kind of a 3 point contest... So far in the playoffs I think the team who has shot better from 3 has won every game.

I liked the old days when a foul was a real body punch or an obvious situation. The worst was the ticky tack foul era of the early millennium when Rasheed was called of for being on the court.