High Speed Rail (insert some devisive political phrase to attract attention)

[MARIS61]

Here are the corridors:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/map-of-potential-high-spe_n_167804.html

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

there is currently no HSR in California so what are you talking about? If there were a connection between SF and LA (thats what you and I were talking about) it's estimated the travel time would take about 2.5 hours and thats with stops in multiple outlying communities. It's also estimated to cost significantly less then a plane ticket.

http://sftravel.com/blog/2010/03/25/californias-high-speed-train-arriving-soon.html


More stuff from your ass. Again, between LA to SF it's significantly cheaper and plenty fast. Besides the travelers who live in the bookend major cities, people who live in outlying communities along the route won't have to travel to an airport... think those people wouldn't prefer to commute at 220 MPH then drive to an airport, park their car at 12$ a day and then wait in line to remove their shoes?

yeah, it makes no sense for the commuter traveler at all

STOMP

Yes. And they will be staffed by magical pixies, stay under budget and will operate with the razor sharp efficiency that is the state of California.



Face it, its going to go over budget. Money is going to be siphoned off to special interest and this project will not see the light of day. Even if it did, the subsidies to keep fares at $55 would have to be so ridiculous as to further bankrupt the state. Its not sustainable.

There is no reason for this train to stop in Fresno, Bakersfield or any other buttfuck towns in Central California. Waste of space.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/24/news/economy/high_speed_rail/

 

[barfo]

That's not Obama's plan though.

Well, yes. There are two rather distinct conversations in this thread, one about HSR, and the other about commuting to work within the Portland metro area.
I'm not sure Obama has said much about the latter.

He envisions a train from Eugene to Vancouver BC, for example. I'd ride that one twice a year to BC if it stopped in Bend, but I doubt I'd ever drive to Eugene, leave my car and ride the train to BC.

I wouldn't expect HSR to serve Bend (or Baker City, or Crater Lake, or ZigZag, or a million other places that are sparsely populated).

I used to ride Tri-Met busses (3 with transfers) to work and back in Portland, wasting about 1-1/2 extra hours of my life every weekday, until one day my wife had a medical emergency in Tigard while I was at work. If I had driven to work I could have reached her in 15 minutes, but on Tri-Met it took nearly 2 hours and a lot of jogging. I never rode a bus to work again.

The problem was not riding a bus. The problem was your wife was in Tigard. Never leave a loved one in Tigard.

Being independently mobile is a huge priority for me. I simply have to be able to go where I want, when I want, without relying on anyone else's aid or permission.

That's good, because public transportation is bound to remain scarce out where you are. Us city-folk have (or should have) different priorities.

barfo

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I believe the main difference in the HSR being so impractical is that on the West Coast, there is such a car culture that people are not willing to take public transportation. Here in LA or in San Diego, most people don't take the public transportation except for the working class. Everyone has to drive to get places.

It works in Europe or Japan because so many people take public transportation. It'll be an expensive novelty.

 

[barfo]

I believe the main difference in the HSR being so impractical is that on the West Coast, there is such a car culture that people are not willing to take public transportation. Here in LA or in San Diego, most people don't take the public transportation except for the working class. Everyone has to drive to get places.

It works in Europe or Japan because so many people take public transportation. It'll be an expensive novelty.

LA once upon a time had an excellent and far-reaching streetcar system. Just because something is one way doesn't mean it will stay that way.

People take public transportation in Europe and Japan because they've invested enough in public transportation to make it useful.

barfo

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

LA once upon a time had an excellent and far-reaching streetcar system. Just because something is one way doesn't mean it will stay that way.

People take public transportation in Europe and Japan because they've invested enough in public transportation to make it useful.

barfo

Yeah. But more people live within the cities there too and spend their time in the cities all day and all night walking around. I doubt its effectiveness in urban sprawl. Its rather impossible to walk or take public transportation in LA. Everything is too spread out to make it practical.

My parents do have a condo right on the Metro Rail line and they can kind of get around the city w/o a car. Its kind of hard to do unless you live right next to a station though.

Those streetcars were back in the day when downtown LA was actually a place where people hung out and lived/worked. Its coming back but the riders of public transportation in the city are still students and working class people.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

also, amurricans are too fat and stupid to get on and off the trains efficiently.

 

[barfo]

also, amurricans are too fat and stupid to get on and off the trains efficiently.

That is true, but we could make special cars with very wide doors, and have the platforms slope down steeply towards the car doors so that the people could just sort of roll in.
Then the other side of the platform would be a chute leading down so that people could just roll off. Maybe combine it with a waterslide, and have a hot dog stand at the bottom.

barfo

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I love it in Japan they have those people that keep on pushing you into the trains until you're in there like sardines.

 

[barfo]

I love it in Japan they have those people that keep on pushing you into the trains until you're in there like sardines.

That's what's missing. Oil. If you filled the train with oil, the sardines would slip and slide against each other and you'd achieve much closer packing.

barfo

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

In SF, you wouldn't even need the oil as everyone would be lubed up already!

 

[andalusian]

also, amurricans are too fat and stupid to get on and off the trains efficiently.

New Yorkers are 'Murricuns too and they are fat as well - and they use their subway very efficiently.

 

[bluefrog]

The links have already been posted, and the numbers have been shown in this thread.

Do you think it makes sense for nearly a billion dollars to be spent on a transportation system that services only those who live close to it in a convenient manner, while the majority has much less money spent on making a car commute easier?

No they haven't. andalusian just said I got them from Wikipedia, DOT, etc... It would take hours to verify these numbers.

From my research I've found that WES ridership is up 15% over last year. It's projected to pay for itself by the end of the year. I don't know how you can't call that a success! LINK: the internet

 

[andalusian]

The best are the Matutus in Africa. (Small Japanese vans from the 80s where they pack 18 people into one). They have a driver and a packer that shoves everyone in, he hangs from the outside of the sliding door to help the driver navigate and see from the sides and helps people shove and extract themselves. If you ever find yourself in Kenya or Africa(one of the best places in the world to visit) - you have to try it, it's absolutely amazing.

 

[andalusian]

No they haven't. andalusian just said I got them from Wikipedia, DOT, etc... It would take hours to verify these numbers.

From my research I've found that WES ridership is up 15% over last year. It's projected to pay for itself by the end of the year. I don't know how you can't call that a success! LINK: the internet

It certainly took a long time to find it. The numbers seem real to me however, since most came from the specific organizations that monitor them (TriMet, ODOT) and reputable news organizations.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

SD to LA to SF would kind of be a waste for a high speed rail system. It just would. People doing real business can fly pretty easily or even in this age of telecommuting, its kind of unnecessary. Even for casual travel, flying from LA to SF is extremely easy.

Its pretty simple to fly in and out in a day if you need to do something for business. 30 minute flight versus 2-3 hours on a bullet train. Even with travel times and waiting for a plane, its not that bad. No serious business person is going to take the bullet train to commute to the bay area, its a novelty more than anything. Its more expensive and takes longer...where's the appeal in that?

It kind of makes sense within the bay area though with a quicker and more efficient BART though, on a smaller scale. Related industries and high tech from San Jose to Mountain View to other parts of the bay.

California can't afford it and it isn't going to magically stimulate commerce.

Project officially shut down. They spent almost $6 billion on something that was never going to happen.

https://abc7news.com/politics/gov-newsom-ending-high-speed-rail-project-between-sf-la/5134644/

 

[BrianFromWA]

I have to give CA credit, though. I fully expected them to be in about 10x that before someone had to cancel it. “Only” $6B is kind of a win.

And they have a head start when the GND prohibits airplanes.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I have to give CA credit, though. I fully expected them to be in about 10x that before someone had to cancel it. “Only” $6B is kind of a win.

And they have a head start when the GND prohibits airplanes.

Only took them like 8 years to figure out. Wonder if they will repeal the gas tax that was passed to pay for this. Doubtful .

fucking scammers.

 

[riverman]

High Speed Rails are awesome...I've traveled all over asia without needing a car or flying in country...Taipei was horribly polluted and congested when I first moved there in the early 80s...the French built their high speed rail system, 3 lines that allow you to go anywhere in a city of millions of people and keeps the air clean...it works...they also are really cheap to ride and when you buy a token you get a free bus link from the end of the line...now they have them crossing the entire island from each direction...they are fast and clean and efficient...I wish we had one in Oregon from Bend to Florence and one from Seattle to San Diego

 

[riverman]

Here in LA or in San Diego, most people don't take the public transportation

They do in San Diego and the Bay Area

 

[Lanny]

Is it still 1950? Rail is old news. Too little too late.

Feel free to start a charity that takes donations from people (train geeks) that want to build it and see what happens.

Do you give any charitable contributions?

 

[Lanny]

They do in San Diego and the Bay Area

It's very popular in Portland. Imagine rush hour without our light rail.

I heard an ex mayor of Seattle lament that they never built a light rail system like Portland.

 

[Lanny]

High Speed Rails are awesome...I've traveled all over asia without needing a car or flying in country...Taipei was horribly polluted and congested when I first moved there in the early 80s...the French built their high speed rail system, 3 lines that allow you to go anywhere in a city of millions of people and keeps the air clean...it works...they also are really cheap to ride and when you buy a token you get a free bus link from the end of the line...now they have them crossing the entire island from each direction...they are fast and clean and efficient...I wish we had one in Oregon from Bend to Florence and one from Seattle to San Diego

There are talks underway about building a high speed rail from San Diego to Seattle. You know, the enlightened West Coast.

 

[barfo]

I didn't notice this thread was from 2011 and started to respond to the first post, and then realized that I'd weighed in already quite a bit...

I guess the one thing that has changed my perception a bit since then is self-driving cars. They have the promise (still several years from reality) of being able to reduce congestion by moving traffic more efficiently - and also to make travel by car more like travel by train.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

High Speed Rails are awesome...I've traveled all over asia without needing a car or flying in country...Taipei was horribly polluted and congested when I first moved there in the early 80s...the French built their high speed rail system, 3 lines that allow you to go anywhere in a city of millions of people and keeps the air clean...it works...they also are really cheap to ride and when you buy a token you get a free bus link from the end of the line...now they have them crossing the entire island from each direction...they are fast and clean and efficient...I wish we had one in Oregon from Bend to Florence and one from Seattle to San Diego

They've got very cheap public transportation in South Korea. It used to cost less than a nickel to ride the bus back in 1980. Taxis at that time were about $1 per kilometer. Taxis were so cheap that we would take a taxi from the Seoul airport about two thirds of the way down until we got to Taegu. Trains were a bit more expensive. I think a train ride from one end of South Korea to the other was about $50. You had to pay a porter to carry your luggage across the train station.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Do you give any charitable contributions?

We give probably a 1000 bucks to Goodwill a year just in clothes. My wife's closet likes fresh stuff.

 

[MarAzul]

We give probably a 1000 bucks to Goodwill a year just in clothes. My wife's closet likes fresh stuff.

Well said.

 

[Lanny]

We give probably a 1000 bucks to Goodwill a year just in clothes. My wife's closet likes fresh stuff.

Everybody gives clothes to Goodwill. We give them quite a few upscale clothes and furniture.
In fact, my mentally disabled brother, now deceased, use to work for them.
We give to our church and we give food, and not cheap food, to various food banks.

My concern was that you were suggesting that someone in here donate to build a high speed people mover train. Which makes no sense unless you're implying that such people who donate to that ought to build such a train for the use of deadbeats who don't want to contribute.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Everybody gives clothes to Goodwill. We give them quite a few upscale clothes and furniture.
In fact, my mentally disabled brother, now deceased, use to work for them.
We give to our church and we give food, and not cheap food, to various food banks.

My concern was that you were suggesting that someone in here donate to build a high speed people mover train. Which makes no sense unless you're implying that such people who donate to that ought to build such a train for the use of deadbeats who don't want to contribute.

I was suggesting that rich train geeks that grow up and still play with model trains fund it.

 

[Lanny]

I was suggesting that rich train geeks that grow up and still play with model trains fund it.

When I was a young teenager, I loved electric model trains. I use to have O guage trains and then stepped it up to HO gauge.
As for a high speed commuter rail, I would be all for it except for my concern about terrorism. If we could get around the terrorism concern, I'd be all for it.
Some people, like my now deceased mother, had such a fear of flying that they preferred the train. John Madden, one time coach of the Oakland Raiders, only traveled by train.