Event ...HOF...who ya got?

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yankeesince59

yankeesince59

"Oh Captain, my Captain".
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My picks; Raines (long overdue) and Bagwell get in....Mussina gets fucked over once again.
 
I'll go with Raines, T Hoffman, Bagwell.
 
Raines
Bagwell
Hoffman borderline this yr?

I'd like to see Pudge slip in; since Piazza's in. That statement, I don't care for, ie "since he's in". It leads to compromise, so fk Pudge.

Would of liked to of seen a helluva lot more support for Moose and Jorge, tho' Posada's stats (.273/.374/.474) aren't HOF worthy as his 5 Rings...
 
From ESPN;


Congratulations to Jeff Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez and Tim Raines, the newest members of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Both selections were long overdue.

Bagwell, pride of the University of Hartford, is the second-greatest first baseman since World War II, behind only Albert Pujols. He hit for power, hit for average, played above-average defense and was one of the best baserunners of his generation. My favorite Bagwell stat: He scored 152 runs in 2000, still the most in a season since Lou Gehrig in 1936.


Tim Raines became just the fifth player elected in his final year of eligibility, joining Red Ruffing, Joe Medwick, Ralph Kiner and Jim Rice. Getty Images
Raines became just the fifth player elected in his final year of eligibility, joining Red Ruffing, Joe Medwick, Ralph Kiner and Jim Rice. He had a terrific peak in the 1980s when he was one of the best all-around players in the game, an on-base machine who is fifth all time in stolen bases. My favorite Raines stat: Rickey Henderson would need to steal 448 bases without being caught to pass Raines’ lifetime stolen base percentage of 84.7 percent.

Rodriguez becomes just the second catcher elected on the first ballot, joining some guy named Johnny Bench. One of the greatest defensive catchers of all time and winner of 13 Gold Gloves and the 1999 AL MVP Award, allegations of steroid use weren’t enough to keep him out. My favorite Rodriguez stat: He caught 5,860 more innings than Bench.

Here’s what else we learned with Wednesday’s results:

Trevor Hoffman fell just short of the 75 percent needed. He’ll clearly get in, probably next year. Only Jim Bunning received at least 70 percent of the vote before his final year on the ballot and was never elected by the Baseball Writers' Association of America (he eventually made it via the Veterans Committee). Johnny Bench remains the only catcher elected on his first ballot.

Vladimir Guerrero did well for a first-ballot candidate. I think he gets in next year, although Craig Biggio debuted at 68.2 percent and it took two more ballots before he was elected.

The most important gains were made by Edgar Martinez. He’s been helped by some clearing of the logjam of candidates: Three players elected in 2014, four in 2015, two in 2016 and two more this year. It would have helped his case even more if Hoffman, Rodriguez and Guerrero had made it, as with just two years remaining on the ballot his time is running out.

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens continue to see increased support, climbing well above 50 percent in their fifth time on the ballot. Since Bunning in the early ‘90s, the only candidates to top 50 percent in the BBWAA and NOT eventually get elected are Jack Morris and Lee Smith (who fell short this year in his final time on the ballot). Of course, Bonds and Clemens aren’t your average candidates, but the momentum seems to be moving full-speed ahead.

Manny Ramirez didn't do well in his first year. Two things: He wasn’t as good as Bonds and Clemens -- hey, that’s not an insult, nobody was as good as those two -- and he twice tested positive outside the Wild West era. He’s going to be treated differently.

Mike Mussina received a nice bump and climbed above 50 percent for the first time. Curt Schilling, an equally strong candidate, didn’t receive the same boost. Still, they’re on track having climbed over 50 percent and with Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Greg Maddux all inducted in recent years, the only competition they’ll face from starting pitchers in upcoming years are Roy Halladay and Andy Pettitte (both join the ballot in 2019), and those two aren’t obviously better candidates.

Jeff Kent continues to struggle to gain momentum. Like Martinez, he would have been helped by getting more candidates elected. The 10-player limit has clearly hurt him, as many voters would like to vote for him, but he’s often the 12th-best player on their list.

New to the ballot in 2018: Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Scott Rolen, Andruw Jones, Omar Vizquel, Johan Santana, Johnny Damon and 269-game winner Jamie Moyer (!).
 
A deserving group. Vlad should surely get in next year.
 
Good class. SD sports radio butthurt continues. First Chargers and now no bells for Hoffman. While his save stats are great, it never translated into post season appearances.
 
^^^yeah, I know things may not have been ideal for the Chargers in SD but I think they will eventually regret moving to LA.
 
"My favorite Raines stat: Rickey Henderson would need to steal 448 bases without being caught to pass Raines’ lifetime stolen base percentage of 84.7 percent."


...^^^mind blowing.
 
glad to see Raines finally get his due, saved by the bell...!

good to see Moose gain more ground, Edgar also....

yankeesince59 said:
^^^yeah, I know things may not have been ideal for the Chargers in SD but I think they will eventually regret moving to LA.
Click to expand...

I regret the move if that counts. wtf is wrong with this city, two timing two losers who have courted this city prior, like ex-wives seeking more alimony...

LA couldn't sustain the Lambs or Raiders, and probably still can't...
I guess in time, one of these two might work out, give this city some badly needed NFL.... but it's still football by the East Bay of Oakland for me, ...
Unless- Air Coryell resurrects from the dead, and takes over once again...

on the note of the Charger's move, and possible regret-
If the Chargers move, they would be Rams owner Stan Kroenke’s tenants. The Chargers wouldn’t have to front any of the money to help build the stadium, but they would be on the hook for a few other major expenses, such as a hefty relocation fee, estimated at $650 million over 10 years, and building their own training facility, says ESPN.
 
yankeesince59 said:
"My favorite Raines stat: Rickey Henderson would need to steal 448 bases without being caught to pass Raines’ lifetime stolen base percentage of 84.7 percent."


...^^^mind blowing.
Click to expand...

...^^^Wow, to be honest and damn near embarrassed, I did- not- know- that-, holy shit batman...!
 
Am I correct to note that the roiders gained ground?
 
And 2 namely bagwell and pudge got in. One of my favorite pictures of pudge was the spring training one where he looked like iambi did that spring where he lost 40 lbs and said he lost 4. In pudges case it was right after mlb started testing. His numbers after that were significantly lower than his past ones....the reverse of palmeiro and sosa
 
...I don't understand how some supporters/detractors/voters can differentiate from one PED user to another.
 
Question: if today's writers had to deal with Ty Cobb during his career, is he still a first ballot HOFer? Lol!
 
totus44 said:
Like human beings do with everything.....rationalization and morality filters.
Click to expand...

...apples and oranges...this is Baseball and you simply cannot parallel the two. Baseball governs itself and always has, as most sports do. In boxing or MMF for example, fighters get paid to do what is considered a crime (assault) in the real world.
 
totus44 said:
Question: if today's writers had to deal with Ty Cobb during his career, is he still a first ballot HOFer? Lol!
Click to expand...

...sorry, but no matter how you try, you cannot make things like this retroactive...there is no time machine, and as far as chronological context goes, Cobb and those like him were pretty much the norm in his time.
...many of our early Presidents were slave owners, but at the time, it was acceptable.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...apples and oranges...this is Baseball and you simply cannot parallel the two. Baseball governs itself and always has, as most sports do. In boxing or MMF for example, fighters get paid to do what is considered a crime (assault) in the real world.
Click to expand...

Okay, I think I see where we are askew. Let me be clearer. I interpreted yours as a rhetorical question, where you meant to see that you are dubious as to how people distinguish between PED users. And that in your mind that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat? Is this a satisfactory representation of your position?

If so, my comment was meant to be a tongue in cheek reply, glibly pointing out that people can and will rationalize and choice or decision based on their world view and/or personal morality.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...sorry, but no matter how you try, you cannot make things like this retroactive...there is no time machine, and as far as chronological context goes, Cobb and those like him were pretty much the norm in his time.
...many of our early Presidents were slave owners, but at the time, it was acceptable.
Click to expand...

Again, playing on the contextual rationalization process that is evident is sports writers today. If faced with a Ty Cobb character on the 2017 ballot, you all know that he'd be castigated as a racist bigoted homophobe and unworthy - regardless of his contributions on the field.

By you position, the Confederate Battle Flag should be perfectly fine (which I agree with btw). However as of current events it's vilified, guilt by association. Again to be clearer, BBWA voters obviously aren't just voting between the lines. I didn't think we disagreed on this, lol!
 
totus44 said:
Again, playing on the contextual rationalization process that is evident is sports writers today. If faced with a Ty Cobb character on the 2017 ballot, you all know that he'd be castigated as a racist bigoted homophobe and unworthy - regardless of his contributions on the field.
Click to expand...

...and again, being a slave holder, Thomas Jefferson would also be vilified in 2017...you can't go backwards.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...and again, being a slave holder, Thomas Jefferson would also be vilified in 2017...you can't go backwards.
Click to expand...
Ah. But that's exactly what our liberal media already does, sportswriters included.

Thus the importance of stats as a comparative measure that theoretically mitigates the temporal relativity.

Cobb's career should be viewed only through the prism of comparison to peers and then baseball history. But you have Yahoo's that would look past that and to him personally.

Same thing is gonna happen with PED era. There will be known cheaters broken down into good guys and bad guys....Say Petitte vs Clemens. And then guys suspected but we're not sure. They too will be qualified by personal traits. This is why Ortiz will likely get in, but someone else won't.

BBWA is always going to bias their voting with emotion and not purely statistical rigor.
 
...but Pettitte came clean right away, while Clemens, Bonds, et al, continue to claim they were clean....and even if Andy had not used PEDs he'd have a hard time getting into the HOF based on his numbers. But conversely, if Bonds and Clemens had admitted right away that they were users and apologized and shown even the slightest bit of remorse, they'd probably both be in by now...or at the very least, greatly increased their chances. The same can be said for Pete Rose.

...and of course most BBWA vote with emotion, and they should... instead of purely based on numbers, and they shouldn't.

...Bonds, Clemens et al, will always have their stats and their ill-gotten money, most of which was earned under false pretenses. But they selfishly separated themselves from the herd by cheating.




...the HOF is a completely different entity from MLB itself sorry...and there's a reason why it is called "The Hall of Fame" instead of "The Hall of Infamy".
 
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Well let's look at it this way, with limited ballot time, it won't take long to see which interpretation bears out.
 
...well, I think that more than anything else, the fact that starting next year the ballots will be made public, will change a lot of voters' position.
 
^^^I suppose that the new "transparency" could work for or against certain players...I guess we'll find out this time next year.
 
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