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Baseball writers basically, are asswholes.

They have agendas, they are prejudiced and are some of the most petty little people allowed to be in the printed media.
 
...most writers are are very aware of their responsibility when voting and they take it very seriously...it's just a handful that give people the wrong impression. And they don't all have agendas and they aren't all prejudiced and they all aren't assholes...if that were the case, Maddox, Glavine, and Thomas would not have been voted in.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...the HOF is based an a player's whole body of work, period. No one knows for sure when the steroid era really began so saying Bonds or Clemens were already HOF material is speculation and exactly when they began juicing cannot be proven or disproven. They are both cheats and what they did earlier in their careers is irrelevant.

...I'm sure Bernie Madoff was a well respected investor at one time too...should he also be given a pass based on that?
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You're using Bernie Madoff as an analogy?. By me saying they may be looking at Bonds & Clemens path prior to the perceived steroid era (basically 96-06) is pure speculation. Which may explain why players like Bonds & Clemens get 35% of the vote while other guys from that era get 15% or less.

Many believe that Bonds starting using after seeing all the attention McGwire & Sosa got during there 98 HR chase. So 1999. and up to that point Bonds already had over 400 HRs, 400 SBs, 3 MVPs & 8 GGs. Which makes it all the more shameful for these two because they didn't need to cheat. They just got greedy.
 
Rick2583 said:
You're using Bernie Madoff as an analogy?. By me saying they may be looking at Bonds & Clemens path prior to the perceived steroid era (basically 96-06) is pure speculation. Which may explain why players like Bonds & Clemens get 35% of the vote while other guys from that era get 15% or less.

Many believe that Bonds starting using after seeing all the attention McGwire & Sosa got during there 98 HR chase. So 1999. and up to that point Bonds already had over 400 HRs, 400 SBs, 3 MVPs & 8 GGs. Which makes it all the more shameful for these two because they didn't need to cheat. They just got greedy.
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...yes, I did use Madoff as an example, rick. But I was not responding to you...I was responding to al.
 
I knew that too, So as I read somewhere, if the PED era is taboo, so is Selig and any HOF recognition he would get, and I agree with that.
 
OK, question when can we agree that the PED banned went into effect? What year?
 
Well then lets rethink this...amphinines (sp) are also ped's. Cortisone shots are also ped as players having either one of these two items improved their quality of health and play. Not all the current HOFers played only on pure talent. 59 what is your take on Andy Pettitte? No way should he get in at all right?

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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Well then lets rethink this...amphinines (sp) are also ped's. Cortisone shots are also ped as players having either one of these two items improved their quality of health and play. Not all the current HOFers played only on pure talent. 59 what is your take on Andy Pettitte? No way should he get in at all right?

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Don't ask me why but.....for some reason I actually believe him when he said that he took the PEDs just to speed up the healing process of an injury that he had. I guess probably because he NEVER had one of those dominating seasons. He was just very average & consistant through most of his career.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Well then lets rethink this...amphinines (sp) are also ped's. Cortisone shots are also ped as players having either one of these two items improved their quality of health and play. Not all the current HOFers played only on pure talent. 59 what is your take on Andy Pettitte? No way should he get in at all right?

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...greenies and cortisone are not in the same galaxy as steroids....greenies and cortisone don't turn fringe players into 40-50 a year HR hitters...surprised that you did not bring up coffee/caffeine as a PED.
...and no, Pettitte is not a HOFer, with or without PEDS...so I don't know why you brought him up either.
 
...ahh, I gotcha.

...btw, I posted earlier how funny I thought it was that you and I and mb were all up so early.
 
...yup, for me, it does not matter if i go to bed at 8:00 or 12:00, I'm gonna be up around 4 or 5 AM.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...greenies and cortisone are not in the same galaxy as steroids....greenies and cortisone don't turn fringe players into 40-50 a year HR hitters...surprised that you did not bring up coffee/caffeine as a PED.
...and no, Pettitte is not a HOFer, with or without PEDS...so I don't know why you brought him up either.
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Don't care that they don't make them into bulking huge men, fact still remains that without making them their performance would suffer greatly without the benefit of taking them.

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...I know you don't care, which is why I pointed out that it is a poor comparison.

...not sure why you are muddying up a very simple discussion about PEDs by somehow trying to compare roids to speed or cortisone...they are not remotely in the same category.
 
Per Heyman we should not knock the process but congratulate those who makes it. Baloney, the fact that Biggio did not make it was a real shocker, perhaps Piazza as well.
 
I beg to differ sir....

Hey look, if you ask WADA, an albuterol inhaler for a player with asthma is performance enhancing. In their view, anything that alters the natural physiological baseline as developed by genes and/or fitness level....that is performance enhancement. This also includes some surgical procedures.

If we really want to get past picking all these nits, the solution is simple - a biochemically level playing field. Do a Testosterone level test for the whole league, take the median of the say the top 10%, and let everyone that chooses to, to supplement up to that level.
 
...hey tote...what about the fluctuation of T-levels?...if mean there are so many things that can alter/hinder/inflate T-levels that it would be hard to govern...and "normal" levels can differ from individual to individual ...and what about the players who are above the median.
 
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Without being a mind reader Ron I think what Al is saying is that way back when Greenies were a definite pick me up. So after a night game that went 15 innings I come back the next day for an afternoon game & while everyone else is pretty wiped out from the night before I popped some greenies & I'm up & looking to kick ass. JMO.
 
Rick2583 said:
Without being a mind reader Ron I think what Al is saying is that way back when Greenies were a definite pick me up. So after a night game that went 15 innings I come back the next day for an afternoon game & while everyone else is pretty wiped out from the night before I popped some greenies & I'm up & looking to kick ass. JMO.
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BINGO!

PED doesn't have to be all about being bigger and stronger, anything that enhances the ability of a player from an unchanged natural state of his or her body. Like the afore mentioned albuterol for an asthmatic (which I am one of). If he did not take his breathing treatments would he be able to perform as well? Knowing the answer..no...if I didn't take my breathing treatment I would not have been able to play line during my hayday (ok it was highschool). It enhanced me to be able to play at a level I was unable to attain without the help of a drug.

Greenies would fall under the same definition as noted by Rick.
 
Rick2583 said:
Without being a mind reader Ron I think what Al is saying is that way back when Greenies were a definite pick me up. So after a night game that went 15 innings I come back the next day for an afternoon game & while everyone else is pretty wiped out from the night before I popped some greenies & I'm up & looking to kick ass. JMO.
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...what?, go back and read what I said...the question was not comparing greenies to some PEDs, the question was about comparing them to STEROIDS

...and there is NO comparison.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...what?, go back and read what I said...the question was not comparing greenies to some PEDs, the question was about comparing them to STEROIDS

...and there is NO comparison.
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You're right, they're not steroids. Not in the way where its going to bulk you up or make you hit the ball further BUT.....it is indeed a form of PEDs because it does allow you to perform better. As far as the use of an Inhaler, Sorry Al I can't go that far.
 
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^^^yup, all anabolic steroids are PEDs, but all PEDs are not steroids.

...hell, if someone really wanted to go out of their way to stretch it, they could claim a "5 Hour Energy" or a "Red Bull" or even a cup of coffee are PEDs.
 
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