Hold firm, Joe!

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TBpup said:
Exactly. And Kawhi wanted LA and not Toronto. I'm shocked (maybe I shouldn't be) about how many examples the national media omits in trying to make their point. Then again, #media.
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And KG supposedly didn’t want Boston.
 
Yeah but everyone loves Dame, and wants to be on his good side when he goes to his new team.

iu
 
TBpup said:
Exactly. And Kawhi wanted LA and not Toronto. I'm shocked (maybe I shouldn't be) about how many examples the national media omits in trying to make their point. Then again, #media.
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Probably should be its own topic, but I'm interested to see how Dame handles the new landscape in terms of the media and fandom.

Miami has several really large news outlets competing with each other to cover the Heat. If he or the team struggle for a few games, he's going to get grilled with questions about his ability to handle the spotlight, if he plays enough defense to elevate the team, if he's worth his contract, if he can play with Butler ... if he doesn't like Jason Quick, imagine having to deal with five Jason Quicks on steroids all season, not including the national media that'll be looking to tear Dame down now that they've gotten him out of Portland.

He's going to be in a much bigger spotlight and held much more accountable even when it isn't all his fault.

The other things about Miami and most of the other contenders to land Lillard are they are cities with multiple top-tier professional sports franchises. Even if the Heat win the championship, the Heat always will take a backseat to the Dolphins. If the Dolphins are doing well, people will be talking and reading about that. If the Dolphins are losing, the top story on the sports section or sports broadcast will be "What's wrong with the Dolphins?"

And no one is going to Damian Lillard Toyota when Dan Marino Mazda and Mike McDaniel Nissan are right up the road.
 
PCmor7 said:
Probably should be its own topic, but I'm interested to see how Dame handles the new landscape in terms of the media and fandom.

Miami has several really large news outlets competing with each other to cover the Heat. If he or the team struggle for a few games, he's going to get grilled with questions about his ability to handle the spotlight, if he plays enough defense to elevate the team, if he's worth his contract, if he can play with Butler ... if he doesn't like Jason Quick, imagine having to deal with five Jason Quicks on steroids all season, not including the national media that'll be looking to tear Dame down now that they've gotten him out of Portland.

He's going to be in a much bigger spotlight and held much more accountable even when it isn't all his fault.

The other things about Miami and most of the other contenders to land Lillard are they are cities with multiple top-tier professional sports franchises. Even if the Heat win the championship, the Heat always will take a backseat to the Dolphins. If the Dolphins are doing well, people will be talking and reading about that. If the Dolphins are losing, the top story on the sports section or sports broadcast will be "What's wrong with the Dolphins?"

And no one is going to Damian Lillard Toyota when Dan Marino Mazda and Mike McDaniel Nissan are right up the road.
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The Portland media is incredibly soft. Go the East coast and see what it's like. I'm sure Dame can handle himself, but it won't be near the cakewalk it has been here.
 
TBpup said:
The Portland media is incredibly soft. Go the East coast and see what it's like. I'm sure Dame can handle himself, but it won't be near the cakewalk it has been here.
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Yeah. This guy played at Weber State and in Portland. He was the only star in town most of his playing career.

He's in for an eye-opening, IMO.

I've listened to the press conferences. Full disclosure, I also cover a Division I college basketball program. It's a small one, but still, I think I ask tougher questions than a lot of the stuff I've seen Dame have to field.
 
PCmor7 said:
Probably should be its own topic, but I'm interested to see how Dame handles the new landscape in terms of the media and fandom.

Miami has several really large news outlets competing with each other to cover the Heat. If he or the team struggle for a few games, he's going to get grilled with questions about his ability to handle the spotlight, if he plays enough defense to elevate the team, if he's worth his contract, if he can play with Butler ... if he doesn't like Jason Quick, imagine having to deal with five Jason Quicks on steroids all season, not including the national media that'll be looking to tear Dame down now that they've gotten him out of Portland.

He's going to be in a much bigger spotlight and held much more accountable even when it isn't all his fault.

The other things about Miami and most of the other contenders to land Lillard are they are cities with multiple top-tier professional sports franchises. Even if the Heat win the championship, the Heat always will take a backseat to the Dolphins. If the Dolphins are doing well, people will be talking and reading about that. If the Dolphins are losing, the top story on the sports section or sports broadcast will be "What's wrong with the Dolphins?"

And no one is going to Damian Lillard Toyota when Dan Marino Mazda and Mike McDaniel Nissan are right up the road.
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It's like what Michael Jordan was to Adidas and Converse in the movie "Air."
They weren't going to give him a piece of the pie or break rules to make his shoe.

(If this part of the movie is fictional, the fictional comparison still applies.)
 
Natebishop3 said:
Look what Utah got for Donovan Mitchell.

September 3, 2022: Traded by the Utah Jazz to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Ochai Agbaji, Lauri Markkanen, Collin Sexton, a 2025 1st round draft pick ( was later selected), a 2026 1st round draft pick ( was later selected), a 2027 1st round draft pick ( was later selected), a 2028 1st round draft pick ( was later selected) and a 2029 1st round draft pick ( was later selected). Cleveland also received a trade exception 2025 1st-rd pick is CLE own 2026 1st-rd pick is a right to swap 2027 1st-rd pick is CLE own 2028 1st-rd pick is a right to swap 2029 1st-rd pick is CLE own
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Back-to-back great posts. The Mitchell return and Cleveland not being a preferred destination.
That team missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row.
A young team wanting to win now.
upload_2023-7-3_14-1-47.jpeg
 
Joe has to also realize that, if he goes with MIA, media leaks of offers he passed on will shock, piss off, and dismay media and POR fans alike. Everything I am hearing from media that (I think) is pretty knowledgeable is that anything MIA offers is a lowball. Sam Mitchell pointed out Dame should be flexible because POR is going to get some killer offers. Herro averaged 22 on 43% shooting. Not bad. You know how many other players did that? 50! Herro is absolutely 100% above average, and that's it.
 
blazerfan11 said:
It's like what Michael Jordan was to Adidas and Converse in the movie "Air."
They weren't going to give him a piece of the pie or break rules to make his shoe.

(If this part of the movie is fictional, the fictional comparison still applies.)
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I was on the Penn State football beat for about 20 years. Every game, you'd have 100 or so media in the pressroom from all over the state -- papers and TV from Philly, Pittsburgh and all in between -- looking for a story to differentiate themselves from the other outlets. Things could get pretty testy. Some members of the press were eager to challenge Joe Paterno (this was pre-Sandusky scandal) on the most frivolous of subjects just to get an angle, and Paterno probably could have won PA governor in a landslide in the 1980s or 1990s.

That team was expected to compete for national championships. If there was a hint or rumor of something being off, Paterno and the QB would get grilled mercilessly.

This is what Damian Lillard is signing up for.
 
blazerfan11 said:
It's like what Michael Jordan was to Adidas and Converse in the movie "Air."
They weren't going to give him a piece of the pie or break rules to make his shoe.

(If this part of the movie is fictional, the fictional comparison still applies.)
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I don't know that Jordan, his agent, or his mother for the matter ever actually called back Addidas or Converse with the demand of equity. His mother did demand it from Nike, and got it, and that was enough. They certainly would have balked and likely not acquiesced. No player had ever received equity prior to Jordan. Jordan's mom wanted him to go with Nike to begin with because they were a new company and he could use that to his advantage when he became a star.

Also, it wasn't Sonny Vacarro who led the deal. It was George Raveling, played by Marlon Wayans, who coached Jordan in the Olympics.
 
Ed O said:
Dame is old and expensive and injury-prone.

Joe should definitely hold firm, but not necessarily into next year.

I don't want to give him away, but if we wait a year, he could be worth much, much less than he is now.
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Agreed, it would be best to finalize this trade before the season but the Blazers don't need to rush and close it out.

Blazers really need to pressure Dame more than they need to pressure other teams. If there is a true open market for Dame then Blazers would simply pick the best offer. Right now other teams can't submit their full bids due to Dame demanding Miami.

Blazers need to propose the motherload offer to the Heat that gets everything possible Heat can give up. Blazers should call the Heat and say: please accept Dame for all of these items... I and others have detailed it in the Dame Heat trade ideas thread.

Blazers should respond PUBLICLY there are 3 options:
1. Heat accept Blazers Dame offer
2. Dame puts other teams on his list besides Miami
3. Dame returns to play for the Blazers

The Blazers offering a deal to Miami shows their willing to trade Dame as he requested, but the holdup is Miami lowballing offers or Dame not allowing other teams to bud. The Blazers can claim their being very accommodating, and they truly are.

Of the ~dozen assets I listed in the Heat thread Id ultimately give up one or two items such as needing Martin or them eating Nurks deal to finalize the Dame trade. But I sure as heck would open negotiations with asks for all of that, it would be the final concession to close a deal.

If Dame accepts other destinations it will greatly improve the offers from all possible trading partners.

The option to return to the Blazers at this point probably wouldn't make sense for either party but it again shows good faith effort by the Blazers.
 
PCmor7 said:
I was on the Penn State football beat for about 20 years. Every game, you'd have 100 or so media in the pressroom from all over the state -- papers and TV from Philly, Pittsburgh and all in between -- looking for a story to differentiate themselves from the other outlets. Things could get pretty testy. Some members of the press were eager to challenge Joe Paterno (this was pre-Sandusky scandal) on the most frivolous of subjects just to get an angle, and Paterno probably could have won PA governor in a landslide in the 1980s or 1990s.

That team was expected to compete for national championships. If there was a hint or rumor of something being off, Paterno and the QB would get grilled mercilessly.

This is what Damian Lillard is signing up for.
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I think it might be worse that that. Lillard will be coming in as the final piece, the missing ingredient. If he goes to Miami and they flame-out after making the finals this season, he's going to get lots of blame. That's Miami...imagine if he goes to Philly or Boston and they flame out....yeeeeeeesh
 
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wizenheimer said:
I think it might be worse that that. Lillard will be coming in as the final piece, the missing ingredient. If he goes to Miami and they flame-out after making the finals this season, he's going to get lots of blame. That's Miami...imagine if he goes to Philly or Boston and they flame out....yeeeeeeesh
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Miami's media and fans can be pretty brutal. The Dolphins' QB, Tua Tagovailoa, had a great year last season when he wasn't hurt, but you still have fans bickering back and forth about him being too small, too injury prone, lacking arm strength, or just not good enough to get them over the top. The media down there more than happily fans the flames,

One week Mike McDaniel will be the new wave in NFL coaches. The next week, the Dolphins lose, every potential problem with his style will be laid bare -- he's a nerd, players don't listen to guys like him, etc., etc. And a lot of the people living down there came from the Northeast, so you get those New York, Boston and Philly fans that freak out after every loss.
 
Another element to consider, if the Blazers take a poor return for Dame just to send him where he wants to go it sets a very bad precedent. It could lead to Blazers other players eventually asking out in later years.

Scoot, Sharpe, Ant, all the other rookies, future players, etc will all see what the Blazers do with Dame. If the Blazers create a precedent where guys with 4 years left on a contract can demand a trade and get to the single team of their choice we really will be the Washington Generals of the NBA.

Blazers need to show Dame and everyone they're willing to play hardball on this exactly like Dame first started doing by sending out those 1 team on his list comments. If Dame only has 1 team on his list then he isn't truly demanding "a trade" and the Blazers have no obligation to send him to that one team which is offering few assets.
 
KingSpeed said:
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Yes this is true. But it's incomplete.

The problem is Dame putting out this "only Miami on the list" comment means the other teams that could offer better assets will not give them all up. They want Dame to be committed first.

If Dame wants a trade he needs to allow more options than a single team just weeks ago in the finals. This is worse than Durant going to the 73 win Warriors after they just went to the finals. At least Durant was a free agent.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Yes this is true. But it's incomplete.

The problem is Dame putting out this "only Miami on the list" comment means the other teams that could offer better assets will not give them all up. They want Dame to be committed.

If Dame wants a trade he needs to allow more options than a single team just in the finals. This is worse then Durant going to the 73 win Warriors after they just went to the finals. At least Durant was a free agent.
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If Dame went to Philly, Brooklyn, Boston, LAC, etc. it's hard for me to see a scenario where he doesn't give it his all. Hell, he's been giving it his all in Portland the last couple seasons, when we had no chance.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Another element to consider, if the Blazers take a poor return for Dame just to send him where he wants to go it sets a very bad precedent. It could lead to Blazers other players eventually asking out in later years.

Scoot, Sharpe, Ant, all the other rookies, future players, etc will all see what the Blazers do with Dame. If the Blazers create a precedent where guys with 4 years left on a contract can demand a trade and get to the single team of their choice we really will be the Washington Generals of the NBA.

Blazers need to show Dame and everyone they're willing to play hardball on this exactly like Dame first started doing by sending out those 1 team on his list comments. If Dame only has 1 team on his list then he isn't truly demanding "a trade" and the Blazers have no obligation to send him to that one team which is offering few assets.
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And, again, it's not like he was poorly treated by the Blazers. DAME is the one that felt slighted by the Blazers that no other team would offer the Blazers reasonable return for the third pick and that the Blazers picked a player largely regarded as having transcendent potential with that pick. I still think Dame let someone get in his ear and in his head that he was being done dirty by the organization -- but, objectively, there is no other player in the NBA that would have a legitimate complaint if their team treated them the way the Blazers treated Damian Lillard for 11 years.
 
Tince said:
If Dame went to Philly, Brooklyn, Boston, LAC, etc. it's hard for me to see a scenario where he doesn't give it his all. Hell, he's been giving it his all in Portland the last couple seasons, when we had no chance.
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Dame could make Detroit a playoff team and be a hero in the Motor City.
 
Tince said:
If Dame went to Philly, Brooklyn, Boston, LAC, etc. it's hard for me to see a scenario where he doesn't give it his all. Hell, he's been giving it his all in Portland the last couple of seasons, when we had no chance.
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He only plays one way, and that's all out. The problem is, none of those teams are interested. Maybe Philly. Boston has shotmakers, and all the PG they need to get those guys going. It sounds like Brooklyn is more interested in being a facilitator to pick up a piece or two, but not close enough to contending to pay for Lillard. Shit...This is not a pretty situation.
 
bemac said:
He only plays one way, and that's all out. The problem is, none of those teams are interested. Maybe Philly. Boston has shotmakers, and all the PG they need to get those guys going. It sounds like Brooklyn is more interested in being a facilitator to pick up a piece or two, but not close enough to contending to pay for Lillard. Shit...This is not a pretty situation.
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What makes you think none of those teams are interested? I think Boston is probably out, but those are the teams that have been reported as showing interest and with the best odds of landing him. Interestingly, the odds for him playing in Portland have improved a lot today. +1200 this morning.
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wizenheimer said:
I think it might be worse that that. Lillard will be coming in as the final piece, the missing ingredient. If he goes to Miami and they flame-out after making the finals this season, he's going to get lots of blame. That's Miami...imagine if he goes to Philly or Boston and they flame out....yeeeeeeesh
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Also, Miami is at a high point right now... they lost in the first round last year.

So you add Dame, you lose Herro and other pieces in addition to Strus and Vincent losing. Higher ceiling, but definitely less depth and stability. And, again, this was a team that flamed out last year.

If he goes to Miami, there's a real chance that they don't have enough depth to be as good as they were. Or Dame gets hurt. And/or Butler gets hurt.

There's a big variance in what can happen, but the hype would be off the charts if they get Dame. So it could end poorly.
 
Unless Joe gets a great offer he can't refuse, he should let the season start and see how the rookies look on possible trade partners.
 
Tince said:
What makes you think none of those teams are interested? I think Boston is probably out, but those are the teams that have been reported as showing interest and with the best odds of landing him. Interestingly, the odds for him playing in Portland have improved a lot today. +1200 this morning.
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that +700 back to POR is still tasty
 
SharpesTriumph said:
The problem is Dame putting out this "only Miami on the list" comment means the other teams that could offer better assets will not give them all up. They want Dame to be committed first.

.
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I question how much of that is Dame and his people

I think Pat Riley and the Heat are pumping out a lot of that narrative
 
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