Hold onto your shorts!

[STOMP]

I thought this comment was kind of interesting: "

josemb | 8:04 p.m. July 10, 2010
this thing shows only one thing; the blazers LOVE the way utah develop undrafted players and 2nd round draft picks. they love how these players show heart, spunk and dedication to their profession. they love that the jazz players play their hearts out game after game after game. and it shows: the jazz swept the lottery pick-laden blazers last season. maybe the blazers should instead hire jerry sloan to get their slacker stars into shape and play like utah jazz players. we all know that the blazers only play those stupid iso-plays.

a passionate yet ignorant comment is what you find interesting... thats sort of interesting too. Do you agree that the Blazers only run iso plays? Just curious what exactly perked your interest here...

Nate has stated umpteen times how much he admires Sloan and of course he is a defensive minded coach as well so you'd figure that they'd value similar types of players. I'd figure that with KP's departure Nate's opinion is probably filling some of the void and this is most likely a guy he has whole heartedly endorsed going after.

I like the iso play with Roy at the end of games. With two wings that can punish teams for collapsing on drives and guard multiple positions on the other end just give them a season of health

STOMP

 

[Sedatedfork]

a passionate yet ignorant comment is what you find interesting... thats sort of interesting too. Do you agree that the Blazers only run iso plays? Just curious what exactly perked your interest here...

I find other fan's perceptions interesting. We do run a lot of iso plays, but not exclusively. I found it more interesting though that this fan thought that the Jazz do a better job of developing their players to play the right way. I don't agree with that (but the Jazz haven't had as much of a logjammed roster to get minutes for their rookies and have a spot to use on UDFA) so I could see how a Jazz fan could feel like they are the farm team for the Blazers.

 

[STOMP]

I find other fan's perceptions interesting. We do run a lot of iso plays, but not exclusively. I found it more interesting though that this fan thought that the Jazz do a better job of developing their players to play the right way. I don't agree with that (but the Jazz haven't had as much of a logjammed roster to get minutes for their rookies and have a spot to use on UDFA) so I could see how a Jazz fan could feel like they are the farm team for the Blazers.

okay cool, glad you didn't take offense at my question

I thought it was interesting how many fans were split on both liking WM and yet saying they were willing to let him walk... I'm sort of on the same fence not sure if I want him at that price or not

STOMP

 

[Ed O]

Only Larry Miller is clueless enough to give him starter money.

Too bad for Jazz fans he passed away, then, because it looks like they're going to lose their starting SG.

Ed O.

 

[ABM]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2010-07-11-insider-lebron_N.htm

Pay up: The Portland Trail Blazers signed restricted free agent Wesley Matthews to an offer sheet, which leaves the Utah Jazz guard in an enviable and rare position after his rookie season.

Matthews, undrafted, signed a one-year deal. Now, he could make more in 2010-11 than the $5.3 million that was slotted for the Los Angles Clippers to pay forward Blake Griffin, the No. 1 pick in the 2009 draft.

 

[maxiep]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2010-07-11-insider-lebron_N.htm

To be fair, he had a better year than Blake Griffin.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Too bad for Jazz fans he passed away, then, because it looks like they're going to lose their starting SG.

Ed O.

Haha, nicely played sir

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Canzano, via Sports Sunday, said he thinks Utah will match.

They lost Boozer and Korver and losing their starting SG would be a huge blow to them.

So, with that said, who should plan-B be?

 

[mgb]

Canzano, via Sports Sunday, said he thinks Utah will match.

They lost Boozer and Korver and losing their starting SG would be a huge blow to them.

So, with that said, who should plan-B be?

I'm sure they'll wait until the last min to do it just to fuck with us.

 

[barfo]

I'm sure they'll wait until the last min to do it just to fuck with us.

To fuck with us, yes, but not just to fuck with us. They'll also need that time to get under all the couch cushions to find the money to pay Matthews.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Canzano, via Sports Sunday, said he thinks Utah will match.

They lost Boozer and Korver and losing their starting SG would be a huge blow to them.

So, with that said, who should plan-B be?

I really don't see why losing Boozer is at all unexpected. I thought it was pretty much a forgone conclusion after they matched Millsap last summer.

 

[Tortimer]

Canzano, via Sports Sunday, said he thinks Utah will match.

They lost Boozer and Korver and losing their starting SG would be a huge blow to them.

So, with that said, who should plan-B be?

I think there is a better then 50% chance the Jazz will match. I don't think there is a plan-B and I don't see any FA's still available we would want. I think we still need to do some type of consolidation trade.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Plan B? What!? Nobody told me we might need a plan B.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Canzano, via Sports Sunday, said he thinks Utah will match.

They lost Boozer and Korver and losing their starting SG would be a huge blow to them.

So, with that said, who should plan-B be?

I do question Canzano's motives, he seems pretty emotionally invested in this whole "Vulcan is incompetent" angle. And the business proceeding without KP (and getting a solid GM) kind of punches a hole in his argument; he kind of needs Utah to match so he can write columns about the Blazers having no direction and no plan. But really all he needs to do is tackle the "WTF are they thinking giving a second year unstaffed player Josh Childress money?" angle.

 

[Natebishop3]

I honestly think the Jazz would be nuts to match this, and I think the Blazers were nuts to offer it in the first place... unless they think this kid is going to be something special, in which case I will be very surprised.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

I think a team (any team) should continue to add talent to the team with the MLE. The only reason NOT to use it is if you have 10+ better players ahead of the possible addition. That's not us. We have 6 NBA level starters only. We need more.
Use the MLE each year and you keep your talent base up. You can always trade guys not measuring up to standards (Rudy, Bayless, Cunningham, Pendergraph, Mills, etc. etc.).

I think Mathews is a rotation level player (top 8-9) on our team. Slide the others down the bench.

Another point: Signing players in free agency is always the worst option financially. You're paying retail most times for decent talent. Only the real scrubs trying to stay in the league will sign for minimum. You don't steal anyone from another team without overpaying. Portland is never going to attract the best Free Agents available. Location, location, location. In our history, we've only signed a few impact UFA's in our 40 years (Twardzik, Ainge, Strickland, Grant, Miller).

 

[STOMP]

I think there is a better then 50% chance the Jazz will match. I don't think there is a plan-B and I don't see any FA's still available we would want. I think we still need to do some type of consolidation trade.

you really don't think they're talking about other options this off season? Maybe you just mean FA options, but I'm pretty sure they always have on-going discussions with teams about possible swaps.

if the Jazz do match, which I think they will as well, Portland's consolation prize is that they'll have made sure that their divisional rival didn't get a decent rotation level player on the cheap. I like that. Following this next season Kirilenko will come off their books and Deron has a player option which I expects he uses siting a chance to win elsewhere. They could only have 3 substantial contracts still on their books... Millsap, Okur and Mathews. here's a direct link to their salary situation

STOMP

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I thought everyone assumed that the Jazz would replace Matthews with a re-signed Brewer? Whom the Grizzlies have just replaced with Tony Allen.

If the Jazz DO sign Matthews and don't go after Brewer, then HE could be our "plan B". He's also a very solid defender, and more of an athlete than Matthews. Not so good with the shooting, though.

 

[Tortimer]

you really don't think they're talking about other options this off season? Maybe you just mean FA options, but I'm pretty sure they always have on-going discussions with teams about possible swaps.

if the Jazz do match, which I think they will as well, Portland's consolation prize is that they'll have made sure that their divisional rival didn't get a decent rotation level player on the cheap. I like that. Following this next season Kirilenko will come off their books and Deron has a player option which I expects he uses siting a chance to win elsewhere. They could only have 3 substantial contracts still on their books... Millsap, Okur and Mathews. here's a direct link to their salary situation

STOMP

I agree either way if we get Matthews or Jazz match it is a good thing for the Blazers. I also meant there really isn't a plan-B for FA's IMO. They might make another offer or sign a FA but I sort of doubt it. I guess you could say plan-B is probably a consolidation trade.

 

[Tortimer]

I thought everyone assumed that the Jazz would replace Matthews with a re-signed Brewer? Whom the Grizzlies have just replaced with Tony Allen.

If the Jazz DO sign Matthews and don't go after Brewer, then HE could be our "plan B". He's also a very solid defender, and more of an athlete than Matthews. Not so good with the shooting, though.

I llike Matthews a lot better then Brewer especially for our team. Like you said he can't shoot and we need shooters to space the floor.

 

[BGrantFan]

I find other fan's perceptions interesting. We do run a lot of iso plays, but not exclusively. I found it more interesting though that this fan thought that the Jazz do a better job of developing their players to play the right way. I don't agree with that (but the Jazz haven't had as much of a logjammed roster to get minutes for their rookies and have a spot to use on UDFA) so I could see how a Jazz fan could feel like they are the farm team for the Blazers.

Portland was 11th in 2009-10 and 12th in 2008-09 in Assist Ratio.Utah was 1st in both those same years.

In efficiency, Portland was 7th last year (Utah 8th) and Portland was 2nd in 2008-09 (Utah 9th).


So, from a Jazz perspective, every offense probably looks "ISO" compared to other teams, and their ball movement is obviously top notch, but Portland arguably runs an better overall offense than Utah statistically, and with Oden early this season, it was near the top before he got injured.

I'd like to see a healthy Oden, LA, Batum, Roy, and Miller play together and see what the offense looks like with that line-up.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

 

[STOMP]

I agree either way if we get Matthews or Jazz match it is a good thing for the Blazers. I also meant there really isn't a plan-B for FA's IMO. They might make another offer or sign a FA but I sort of doubt it. I guess you could say plan-B is probably a consolidation trade.

just to throw a UFA out that has always interested me... Leon Powe

STOMP

 

[BGrantFan]

I do question Canzano's motives, he seems pretty emotionally invested in this whole "Vulcan is incompetent" angle. And the business proceeding without KP (and getting a solid GM) kind of punches a hole in his argument; he kind of needs Utah to match so he can write columns about the Blazers having no direction and no plan. But really all he needs to do is tackle the "WTF are they thinking giving a second year unstaffed player Josh Childress money?" angle.

What does Utah matching have to do with a "Vulcan is incompetent angle"? If Utah matched, it's a good move by Vulcan, IMO, just as having Utah match Millsap was a good move. If they don't, well, there will be a ton of pressure on Wesley Matthews next season.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Has this been linked to yet (Jazz fan singing Matthews praises)?

The Jazz had something special in Wesley Matthews last year. As a rookie he was cited by the team as its best defender. Remember all those shooting guards who lit up the Jazz for 40 and 50 points a couple years ago? Kobe time and time again? Wade? Gilbert Arenas? Linus freaking Kleiza? Remember when Bill Simmons joked that every shooting guard in the NBA had circled the games against Utah? And remember how awful it was to know it was true?

Well last season the most any shooting guard scored against the Jazz was 34 points. Vince Carter. He shot 39% and the Jazz won. In 3 regular season games, Kobe had 1 decent game. He shot under 30% in the other two. I looked at the box scores of every single game, and there are more SG's scoring in the teens than in the 20's. And only a handful (about 5) in the 30's. That wasn't the case 2 years ago.

Remember back in November when the only thing that made watching Jazz games worthwhile was seeing Wesley Matthews? Remember the big three's that inspired the O My Sweet Wesley acronym?

And he was a freaking rookie!

You can't just replace this with some random swingman. He hit 3's, he could cut, he played tough, he played great man-to-man defense. I've mentioned it before, but it's worth mentioning again. He pushed Melo and Kobe into awful, awful shots—shots where they were completely off balance and had no outlet pass available. Yeah, they hit the shots. But that kind of defense against shooting guards and some small forwards (often the team's best scorers), over the course of a season, can be 5-10 wins. That's the difference between a #1 seed and a #8 seed.

You can't just replace this kind of play with a random dude. I know it was just 10 PPG. I know it was just a couple rebounds per game. I know you can point out to a lot of guys who could do particular things better (KK is a better shooter, Ronnie B. got more steals, so-and-so would get more rebounds). But you know what, basketball is more than just the stats.

Wesley has the attitude and skills and heart to be an all-time #3 kind of guy. A Big Shot Bob. A James Posey. A Derek Fisher. A Dennis Rodman (without the weirdness). And you absolutely cannot win a championship without the right kind of guy as your #3.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Has this been linked to yet (Jazz fan singing Matthews praises)?

Just go to SLCdunk.com and you'll quickly realize how highly the fans prize that guy ... but most are shocked at the thought of having to pay him 33 million over 5 years.

 

[RR7]

just to throw a UFA out that has always interested me... Leon Powe

STOMP

Pretty sure Powe is under contract with Cleveland for the upcoming season. Option picked up back in May.

 

[Trader Ed]

1 year to the day that we offered the toxic contract to Milsap

We need to make July 10th... "Screw with Utah's cap" day

 

[STOMP]

Pretty sure Powe is under contract with Cleveland for the upcoming season. Option picked up back in May.

after googling... you're right

I misread the salary link here at S2 thinking that the 2010 season listed was last season not the upcoming season

STOMP

 

[Nikolokolus]

This ought to sober everybody up

blazersedge

"I can see Utah or some other team giving Matthews too long a contract and regretting it" -- @kpelton on july 7th http://bit.ly/a2IiWl

Matthews' solid play as a starter at shooting guard helped the Jazz quiet criticism for the money-saving move of dumping Brewer to Memphis at the trade deadline. Now, that looks like an awfully good move for Utah, which picked up a future first-round pick and could even re-sign Brewer if it so chose since he's an unrestricted free agent after the Grizzlies declined to make him a qualifying offer.

Despite SCHOENE's concerns about aging rapidly, I still think Brewer is the slightly better free agent option, though it's probably a matter of taste. Matthews is out of place in this group since he shot 38.2 percent from beyond the arc, though he's more of a defender first and a shooter second, which is why I can't lump him in with the previous group. Brewer, meanwhile, offers more athleticism and is a better fit for an up-tempo team.

Matthews does remind me of a caution I once offered about Damien Wilkins in Seattle. When an undrafted free agent plays well as a rookie, it's often less a sign that he's truly a great player and more a reminder that talent is out there to find. I can see Utah or some other team giving Matthews too long a contract and regretting it after finding out he's not substantially better than replacement level.

 

[Further]

I think everyone from the jazz to WM, his agent and even the Blazers know that this contract is bigger then it should be. But, it's the only shot Paul Allen has of getting WM. I love the fact that we have an owner who wants desperately to build a contender and is willing to make moves like this to try and squeeze out a couple extra wins. regardless of the contract being too much, one thing is very likely, that getting WM will make the Blazers at least marginally better. All the Blazers need is a few of the little things to come together at once. If Oden stays healthy, if Aldridge gets better, If Roy and Miller start off the season better, If Batum continues to ball, If, If, If. A few of these "I'f's" come together and the Blazers will stand a very solid shot at WCF or even a shot at it all. And we have Allen to thank for being willing to take the financial hits needed to give Nate and the Blazers the chance to succeed.