Politics Homeless people gain ‘de facto right’ to sleep on sidewalks through federal court

[Phatguysrule]

"Supreme Court declines to re-examine the criminalization of homelessness in Martin v. City of Boise case"

Thought it was worth pointing out that this is not new. This happened under Trump. With a conservative Supreme Court.

We literally can not clean up our streets unless we house these people.

https://archive.curbed.com/2019/4/5/18296772/supreme-court-homeless-lawsuit-boise-appeals-court

 

[BlazerWookee]

They didn't "outlaw homelessness," they outlawed camping in certain places. There needs to be more accomodations made, certainly. But there also needs to be protections in place for those who wish to use public property for the purposes for which they are intended. This is an enormously complex issue, and oversimplifying it in either direction serves noone except for those who profit either financially or politically by sowing division.

 

[Phatguysrule]

They didn't "outlaw homelessness," they outlawed camping in certain places. There needs to be more accomodations made, certainly. But there also needs to be protections in place for those who wish to use public property for the purposes for which they are intended. This is an enormously complex issue, and oversimplifying it in either direction serves noone except for those who profit either financially or politically by sowing division.

Each of these homeless cost us $30k per year by living their unhealthy lifestyle and destroying our cities. $30k per year would pay for a really nice apartment, or several decent studio apartments.

Once you did that you could legally prevent the homeless from sleeping outside or setting up camp (according to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which the Supreme Court let stand on appeal).

It sounds to me like as long as Oregon has adequate housing for Oregon's share of homeless we can be tough on homeless who try to come in from other states.

 

[stampedehero]

"Supreme Court declines to re-examine the criminalization of homelessness in Martin v. City of Boise case"

Thought it was worth pointing out that this is not new. This happened under Trump. With a conservative Supreme Court.

We literally can not clean up our streets unless we house these people.

https://archive.curbed.com/2019/4/5/18296772/supreme-court-homeless-lawsuit-boise-appeals-court

The Supreme Court never witnessed or experienced homelessness. They should have viewed "Seattle is Dying" on Youtube. What an idiotic decision. The crime is directly related to a drug habit the homeless cannot afford. Demented and lost souls are on the streets of this nation. * Follow Rhode Islands system. Heroin addicts are thankful for intervention and synthetic treatments. In my opinion, we have abandoned air force bases and other non related facilities that could be their city and also serve as their isolation from us.

 

[Lanny]

Each of these homeless cost us $30k per year by living their unhealthy lifestyle and destroying our cities. $30k per year would pay for a really nice apartment, or several decent studio apartments.

Once you did that you could legally prevent the homeless from sleeping outside or setting up camp (according to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which the Supreme Court let stand on appeal).

It sounds to me like as long as Oregon has adequate housing for Oregon's share of homeless we can be tough on homeless who try to come in from other states.

You'd have the additional expense of providing a place for these people to socialize with like minded people but it's a good idea.

 

[jonnyboy]

Oh, they’re allowed to exist. Thanks government.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The Supreme Court never witnessed or experienced homelessness. They should have viewed "Seattle is Dying" on Youtube. What an idiotic decision. The crime is directly related to a drug habit the homeless cannot afford. Demented and lost souls are on the streets of this nation. * Follow Rhode Islands system. Heroin addicts are thankful for intervention and synthetic treatments. In my opinion, we have abandoned air force bases and other non related facilities that could be their city and also serve as their isolation from us.

But they are very treatable if you just house them. No need to isolate them from us.

 

[stampedehero]

But they are very treatable if you just house them. No need to isolate them from us.

You can't live with real lunatics. Surely, you don't want a section 8 person living in a house next to you. The people in Seattle and San Francisco say so. As a normal citizen, you'll pay taxes expecting a stabile community and a prosperous life. With all the money these cities threw at the problem, they ignored the treatment both you and I hope they would get. They should be isolated.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You can't live with real lunatics. Surely, you don't want a section 8 person living in a house next to you. The people in Seattle and San Francisco say so. As a normal citizen, you'll pay taxes expecting a stabile community and a prosperous life. With all the money these cities threw at the problem, they ignored the treatment both you and I hope they would get. They should be isolated.

Sure, some of them should be isolated. But many can be treated once placed in a healthier situation where they feel like they of some control over their lives.

Once housed we can more easily keep tabs on them. We would have a pretty good idea of who to keep a closer eye on by the time our social workers placed then in homes. Or if they are really bad, place them where they need to be rather than a home.

 

[Chris Craig]

Some want to be housed. Some don't.

For those who want to be house we need to build more transitional housing. We need to up the ante on resources to help people get back on their feet. That will get a good number if homeless off the street.

For those who prefer the homeless life and will refuse to take the transitional housing route we can designate more homeless villages, like dignity village. Fill them with those tiny houses. Some plumbing. That will get most the rest off the sidewalks.

There is a demographic of the homeless population that consists of runways. Teenagers who have run away from home because of abuse, neglect, etc. We need to get these kids off the street. We need more programs for them where they can feel safe.

For any homeless who need it offer drug programs with incentives.

There are solutions to the homeless problem. It just seems so far no one in charge has really put in a serious effort to get creative and find those solutions.

Making homelessness illegal doesn't work. Sending homeless people away on busses doesn't solve the problem.

Covid has only caused the problem to get worse as more and more people have lost jobs and are now homeless and living in tents on the sidewalk. It's not just old people, or addicts, or runaways, it's families. I see little kids living on the sidewalks in tents with their parents. It kills me. It should never have happened.

 

[Natebishop3]

We are talking about human beings. You speak of them as if they are the scum on the bottom of your shoe. Terrible.

My issue is that a lot of these people are being shipped here from other cities because they don't want to deal with them. Why does our city have to shoulder the burden of taking care of all these people? I haven't looked, but just from how the city has changed in the last 10 years, I would guess that our homeless population has soared. We can't take on the homeless from all over the country. This is a major issue and there should be some kind of penalty for cities that dump their problem on us.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We are talking about human beings. You speak of them as if they are the scum on the bottom of your shoe. Terrible.

Eh? How is advocating for a better cleaner, healthier, safer situation for them speaking of them as scum?

Honestly, I don't know what part of my post could be eliciting this response?

 

[Natebishop3]

The federal review found 35 people in Oregon experiencing homelessness per 10,000 people. Only three states had a worse rate, New York City (47 people per 10,000), Hawaii (46 people per 10,000) and California (41 people per 10,000).

Oregon also had one of the highest rates of unhoused people who were living unsheltered, tied for second place with Nevada. Both states saw 61%of their homeless population living outdoors. Only California had a higher rate.

https://www.opb.org/article/2021/03...less-population-in-decline-prior-to-pandemic/

How exactly did Oregon end up with the third worst homeless rate in the country? Because other cities are shipping them here. Something has to be done about that.

 

[Chris Craig]

Eh? How is advocating for a better cleaner, healthier, safer situation for them speaking of them as scum?

Honestly, I don't know what part of my post could be eliciting this response?

Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. Disregard

 

[Phatguysrule]

Some want to be housed. Some don't.

For those who want to be house we need to build more transitional housing. We need to up the ante on resources to help people get back on their feet. That will get a good number if homeless off the street.

For those who prefer the homeless life and will refuse to take the transitional housing route we can designate more homeless villages, like dignity village. Fill them with those tiny houses. Some plumbing. That will get most the rest off the sidewalks.

There is a demographic of the homeless population that consists of runways. Teenagers who have run away from home because of abuse, neglect, etc. We need to get these kids off the street. We need more programs for them where they can feel safe.

For any homeless who need it offer drug programs with incentives.

There are solutions to the homeless problem. It just seems so far no one in charge has really put in a serious effort to get creative and find those solutions.

Making homelessness illegal doesn't work. Sending homeless people away on busses doesn't solve the problem.

Covid has only caused the problem to get worse as more and more people have lost jobs and are now homeless and living in tents on the sidewalk. It's not just old people, or addicts, or runaways, it's families. I see little kids living on the sidewalks in tents with their parents. It kills me. It should never have happened.

I think we have a lot of these programs in place, but people living on the streets will not be able to take full advantage of them because they have such terrible living situations.

Getting these people into situations where they feel they are safe and have some control will allow the programs we already have to be far more effective, and help us more effectively address any short comings.

I just think the first step needs to be getting as many off of the streets as possible.

 

[Chris Craig]

My issue is that a lot of these people are being shipped here from other cities because they don't want to deal with them. Why does our city have to shoulder the burden of taking care of all these people? I haven't looked, but just from how the city has changed in the last 10 years, I would guess that our homeless population has soared. We can't take on the homeless from all over the country. This is a major issue and there should be some kind of penalty for cities that dump their problem on us.

Yeah, that's a big issue. Part of that problem is Portland offers alot more resources than most cities. Some cities don't offer any. This is a not just a state issue. It's a national one. Cities across the country need to offer better resources. Need to solve this together.

 

[donkiez]

My issue is that a lot of these people are being shipped here from other cities because they don't want to deal with them. Why does our city have to shoulder the burden of taking care of all these people? I haven't looked, but just from how the city has changed in the last 10 years, I would guess that our homeless population has soared. We can't take on the homeless from all over the country. This is a major issue and there should be some kind of penalty for cities that dump their problem on us.

This is why it's a federal problem. If any state tries to do anything then all the other states just give them their problem.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. Disregard

No worries. I'm actually treading along a line of trying to sounds less concerned about the human angle than I actually am and more along the lines of just cleaning up the streets and reducing the impact on the rest of us, as the human angle tends to derail the conversation for some reason.

So I wanted to make sure I hadn't gone too far...

 

[Chris Craig]

I think we have a lot of these programs in place, but people living on the streets will not be able to take full advantage of them because they have such terrible living situations.

Getting these people into situations where they feel they are safe and have some control will allow the programs we already have to be far more effective, and help us more effectively address any short comings.

I just think the first step needs to be getting as many off of the streets as possible.

We have some shelters. We have a small number of transitional housing. Not enough funding. So much more can be done. We need more transitional housing and programs that I agree allow them some control of their lives.

To get them off the street we need more transitional housing, we need more funding. Portland though continues to find more value in building condos that stay empty.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, that's a big issue. Part of that problem is Portland offers alot more resources than most cities. Some cities don't offer any. This is a not just a state issue. It's a national one. Cities across the country need to offer better resources. Need to solve this together.

We just can't afford to shoulder all the countries homeless problem. I suspect it will only get worse.

 

[Chris Craig]

No worries. I'm actually treading along a line of trying to sounds less concerned about the human angle than I actually am and more along the lines of just cleaning up the streets and reducing the impact on the rest of us, as the human angle tends to derail the conversation for some reason.

So I wanted to make sure I hadn't gone too far...

This is a very personal issue to me as I have been homeless. I get emotional about it.

I get wanting to look at it from the angle you are aiming at, but the issue of homelessness has to be solved from a human angle because we are dealing with human beings.

 

[Chris Craig]

We just can't afford to shoulder all the countries homeless problem. I suspect it will only get worse.

We need to shoulder ours and other cities need to shoulder theirs

 

[Natebishop3]

We need to shoulder ours and other cities need to shoulder theirs

But that isn't happening. They're shipping them to our city. So that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Chris Craig]

But that isn't happening. They're shipping them to our city. So that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

I agree.

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree.

I'm not sure how the hell you address it though, if it's happening covertly. Create a federal law that would carry prison time?

 

[tester551]

But that isn't happening. They're shipping them to our city. So that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

You've made this claim several times...
Do you have any evidence or proof to back that claim up?

You can't just use the percentage of the nation's homeless population. If I were homeless in Denver or Salt Lake during the winter - I'd sure as hell look to move to another part of the country. If I was in Vegas or Phoenix in the summer - I'd be moving too.

Portland has a relatively moderate climate, which I suspect is a big driver in the homeless population.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We have some shelters. We have a small number of transitional housing. Not enough funding. So much more can be done. We need more transitional housing and programs that I agree allow them some control of their lives.

To get them off the street we need more transitional housing, we need more funding. Portland though continues to find more value in building condos that stay empty.

Agreed. So instead of paying the less than $10k per year to house them, we're spending $30k per year to keep them on the streets. The ignorance of it all is mind blowing.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We just can't afford to shoulder all the countries homeless problem. I suspect it will only get worse.

Which is why we should at least home those who can prove they are from here.

Then we'll have to figure out what to do with the rest.

But we're literally spending enough to house triple the population right now, so we'll have some time to figure it out.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is a very personal issue to me as I have been homeless. I get emotional about it.

I get wanting to look at it from the angle you are aiming at, but the issue of homelessness has to be solved from a human angle because we are dealing with human beings.

I get that as well. I'm just not very good at dealing with it from that angle as I don't have the ammunition to deal with the conversations that often leads to.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm not sure how the hell you address it though, if it's happening covertly. Create a federal law that would carry prison time?

Just address homelessness nation wide. Have each state pay a per capita fee, or reduce subsidies to each state by that amount.

It's far less expensive than not dealing with it.