Honest Observations on Oden

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What makes an observation about Oden, a "dishonest" one?
 
julius said:
What makes an observation about Oden, a "dishonest" one?
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I think you know what I am talking about....the whole "I wouldn't trade Oden for any player in the league!" type homerism. There are fans who will read that article and go berserk at the notion that Oden has hurdles to overcome *even if healthy.* There are people who will be offended at the opinion that Oden won't be a HOFer, and that the team doesn't need him to be. Heck, there are people who will be offended at the opinion that injuries just might continue to be a problem for Oden.

Even if you disagree with the writer, at least he is trying to give both sides, and not just blowing sunshine up our collective backsides! Nor is he resorting to the Bill Simmons "nyah-nyah-nyah" type childishness.
 
oldmangrouch said:
I think you know what I am talking about....the whole "I wouldn't trade Oden for any player in the league!" type homerism. There are fans who will read that article and go berserk at the notion that Oden has hurdles to overcome *even if healthy.* There are people who will be offended at the opinion that Oden won't be a HOFer, and that the team doesn't need him to be. Heck, there are people who will be offended at the opinion that injuries just might continue to be a problem for Oden.

Even if you disagree with the writer, at least he is trying to give both sides, and not just blowing sunshine up our collective backsides! Nor is he resorting to the Bill Simmons "nyah-nyah-nyah" type childishness.
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giving both sides? You mean saying he thinks Oden's body is cracked, he'll probably end his career on an injury, and that his injuries (and history of injuries) are anything remotely close to the style and kind that Bowie and Walton both had?

You know, genetic issues.

So far, his "injuries" have been a sprained wrist, a MF (which is a recent phenomena and in the olden days wouldn't have lost us a year of his services) and a freak injury probably caused by improper muscle building and poor jumping style.

Not exactly a history of repeatable injuries, much like Waltons injuries were all in his ankle/foot, and Bowies were in the same leg over and over (iirc).

My point was that you called an "honest" reflection of Oden's injuries the one that just happens to back up what you believe.
 
and julius shoots he scores!!!!!!!!!! Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll



Repped in case you couldn't tell.
 
I read that article and a some stuff popped out at me.
1) the writer is putting Oden in the same category as Bowie/Walton and even though he talks about the upside seems to think Odens future is set in stone
2) he doesn't really talk about the injuries he has, just says he has spent less time playing then being out, meaning he doesn't address what went wrong to put Oden their and instead just says his body is "cracked" and we will see random injuries forever more
3)I liked how he summed up what we need from Oden, a defensive force who gets the garbage buckets.
4) He did say that the moment Oden is gone he will put our championship dreams to rest.

Wasn't a bad article I just wish he had taken some more times to fully address some of the issues that could be chronic with Oden instead of just saying his body is broken.
 
julius said:
giving both sides? You mean saying he thinks Oden's body is cracked, he'll probably end his career on an injury, and that his injuries (and history of injuries) are anything remotely close to the style and kind that Bowie and Walton both had?

You know, genetic issues.

So far, his "injuries" have been a sprained wrist, a MF (which is a recent phenomena and in the olden days wouldn't have lost us a year of his services) and a freak injury probably caused by improper muscle building and poor jumping style.

Not exactly a history of repeatable injuries, much like Waltons injuries were all in his ankle/foot, and Bowies were in the same leg over and over (iirc).

My point was that you called an "honest" reflection of Oden's injuries the one that just happens to back up what you believe.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to julius again.
 
I thought the one really good point from that article was about Oden's mental state. It's going to take most of the season for him to simply remember how to play hoops again. All that guy has been doing is rehabbing. I still don't think we've seen him even at 100% yet. There's the physical part of it, which should take a few months and then the mental part of his comeback, which may take longer.

First, I just want to see him healthy for an entire season. He's a good kid who deserves it.
 
oldmangrouch said:
What's the use. Enjoy the kool-aid.
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Out of curiosity, what will your opinion be of your jibes at other people if Oden does prove to be an impact player? Will you feel that you were foolishly closed-minded? Or will you simply say everyone else got lucky and you were right all along?

I can understand your frustration at being a minority opinion. It's hard to have sympathy for you, though, when you essentially demean anyone who doesn't agree with you as a homer or kool-aid drinker.
 
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Hey guys, don't mind OldManGrouch (aka OMG) - he's just working really hard to live up to his moniker. It's not transparent or anything.
 
Minstrel said:
Out of curiosity, what will your opinion be of your jibes at other people if Oden does prove to be an impact player? Will you feel that you were foolishly closed-minded? Or will you simply say everyone else got lucky and you were right all along?

I can understand your frustration at being a minority opinion. It's hard to have sympathy for you, though, when you essentially demean anyone who doesn't agree with you as a homer or kool-aid drinker.
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Masterfully stated . . .so that's how it's done!?!? Repped.
 
I'll give an honest observation. I'm one of the more pessimistic people around here when it comes to projecting what he'll be able to do, but it goes almost without saying that if his body doesn't fail him again he's got enormous potential to do a lot of good things in the league. And yes, he's not plagued with a recurring injury to a specific body part, but at what point do we stop using the coincidence excuse? Maybe it's as simple as bad luck, but isn't it possible that he has a sort of innate awkwardness and some imbalances in his physique -- for instance, his legs being an inch different in length -- that make him more prone to breaking and injuring things?

I hope to god he has a healthy season (I really do) but what do you say if he goes down for an extended period again ... let's say he injures a completely new body part? What is it going to take to convince some of you that he can put all of this behind him or that he's on the short track for early retirement? I freely admit I don't have any answers to these questions myself
 
Actually, I think you can say he's been plagued to a recurring injury to a body part(left patella, twice).

Playing the armchair doctor role for a minute with the little information I have, I think you can at least argue that the two incidents are linked. There's just something not so coincidental about it.
 
Nikolokolus said:
isn't it possible that he has a sort of innate awkwardness and some imbalances in his physique -- for instance, his legs being an inch different in length -- that make him more prone to breaking and injuring things?
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It's certainly possible but, in the absence of an actual medical diagnosis that would suggest it, I think it's too early to conclude that.

Essentially, I'm not sure why the need to rush to judgment (this is not aimed at you, specifically). He's staying a Blazer until next off-season, at least. He won't be traded because his trade value is almost certainly far lower than his value to the Blazers...it's not worth giving up the upside potential in order to get a decent player (much worse than Oden's talent level to account for injury risk) who won't push Portland any closer to title contention.

So, since he's a Blazer for at least one more year, why not see what happens rather than draw up battle lines on what Oden's future is?
 
Minstrel said:
It's certainly possible but, in the absence of an actual medical diagnosis that would suggest it, I think it's too early to conclude that.

Essentially, I'm not sure why the need to rush to judgment (this is not aimed at you, specifically). He's staying a Blazer until next off-season, at least. He won't be traded because his trade value is almost certainly far lower than his value to the Blazers...it's not worth giving up the upside potential in order to get a decent player (much worse than Oden's talent level to account for injury risk) who won't push Portland any closer to title contention.

So, since he's a Blazer for at least one more year, why not see what happens rather than draw up battle lines on what Oden's future is?
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If he wasn't up for an extension (or possible restricted free agency in a lockout year) then you're right that there would be plenty of time to let it ride, instead the team and he are entering a particularly crucial period of his career
 
Minstrel said:
Out of curiosity, what will your opinion be of your jibes at other people if Oden does prove to be an impact player? Will you feel that you were foolishly closed-minded? Or will you simply say everyone else got lucky and you were right all along?

I can understand your frustration at being a minority opinion. It's hard to have sympathy for you, though, when you essentially demean anyone who doesn't agree with you as a homer or kool-aid drinker.
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The short answer: I'm not demeaning people for disagreeing. I am frustrated with people who ignore valid concerns about the team's future. Questions about Oden's health, mental state, and lost development time, are all legit issues - how can bringing them up be "wrong"?
 
Fair enough, but I remember when the Oregonian-fed conventional wisdom said that "talus bone" meant that Roy wouldn't ever reach his potential. Or the stink on O-Live when it came out that he wasn't having offseason surgery to shave it down.
 
Minstrel said:
It's certainly possible but, in the absence of an actual medical diagnosis that would suggest it, I think it's too early to conclude that.

Essentially, I'm not sure why the need to rush to judgment (this is not aimed at you, specifically). He's staying a Blazer until next off-season, at least. He won't be traded because his trade value is almost certainly far lower than his value to the Blazers...it's not worth giving up the upside potential in order to get a decent player (much worse than Oden's talent level to account for injury risk) who won't push Portland any closer to title contention.

So, since he's a Blazer for at least one more year, why not see what happens rather than draw up battle lines on what Oden's future is?
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Probably the worst case scenario is if Oden stays healthy and has a all star year next year and then we sign him to the max and he has a career ending/effecting injury the next year.

While I agree he hasn't had chronic type of injuries of one specific type, he has had a lot of injuries so far and when you break something just by jumping it tends to point to your body not being able to handle it's own strength. I'm really hoping Oden remains generally injury free the rest of his career, but it will be a while before I'm not afraid each game he's going to get injured.
 
My honest observation of Oden is that if he were healthy and used to his full potential, he would be one of the top centers in the game.
 
OMG,

None of the things you list above offends me. I'll be the first to say that I don't know what will happen with Greg's health, but neither do you.

What does offend me is that EVERY stink'n time someone says something positive about Greg, you feel the need to jump in with a dose of negativity...and want to argue about it.

One of the sick things about these forums is that anyone can be obnoxious about their negative view for literally years, then if they are proved wrong, they can just say, "I'm sure glad I was wrong. Go team."

Go Blazers
 
I guess I don't need some blog writer making blanket statements of how I, a fan, will and won't (should or shouldn't) judge Oden. First, we don't lack size, defense and rebounding (as claimed). We have this seven footer-plus who is an able defender, named Joel, who averages better than 8 boards a game and LA averaged 8 boards last season too. Second, the way I describe BUST is by comparing talent. The single theme of the draft that year was, "Is it Oden or is it Durant?" Compare the two, talent wise - then draw some conclusions using the word "bust".

Thanks for the link. Good read - just not my kind of honest because the author draws conclusions (like we all do) and makes assumptions about Oden's future contributions. I still fear, we'll see 20 games, tops, out of Oden this year. Man, I hope he proves me wrong.
 
Oden could be greatest thing we never had! Kind of like the vintage sports car your grandfather restored and lets you admire through the garage door window.

Something tells me Gramps will leave the keys lying around one day!
 
Blazer_Mullet_Man said:
First, we don't lack size, defense and rebounding (as claimed). We have this seven footer-plus who is an able defender, named Joel, who averages better than 8 boards a game and LA averaged 8 boards last season too. ... I still fear, we'll see 20 games, tops, out of Oden this year. Man, I hope he proves me wrong.
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It's interesting that you say we can rely on Joel, but you fear we'll only get 20 games out of Oden. But Joel (a) had a more serious injury (that was made worse by falling in the shower), and (b) in HIS first years was at least as injury-prone as Oden, and looked like a total bust.
 
Not only did Oden miss a chuck of his FR year at OSU, he played in zero games his rookie year. Joel played in 33, then returned the following year to play in 71. Greg played in 21 games last season...

It's possible I see Joel as more of a warrior with the ability and body to return from injury, given he played in 77 and 82 games, respectively, 07-09 seasons. Haven't Oden's injuries been everywhere - wrist, knee, knee cap, ankle, etc. - while Joel's have been more centralized?
 
oldmangrouch said:
What's the use. Enjoy the kool-aid.
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What's the use of being negative? Sports (and watching sports) are supposed to be fun. If fans aren't going to have high hopes and be a little homerish, what is the point of sports as entertainment?

Do you feel that you being negative will somehow make the team better?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
It's interesting that you say we can rely on Joel, but you fear we'll only get 20 games out of Oden. But Joel (a) had a more serious injury (that was made worse by falling in the shower), and (b) in HIS first years was at least as injury-prone as Oden, and looked like a total bust.
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Absolutely. Which tells me that Oden still has a chance to have a relatively long and productive career (however remote the possibility).
 
Do you feel being overly optimistic makes the team better? I've been supporting and following the Blazers since the 70's. I've found a realistic approach best.

I didn't like the draft day decision to take Oden over Durant in the first place. I have my opinion, I share it, and other fans have their opinion - which I can respect, while disagreeing with. I'm not here to change anyones mind - just share and be a fan, like everyone else. I've stated in the past that for the sake of the team, I hope I'm wrong. I have no faith in Oden to live up to expectations or finish a season. The guy is broken.
 
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