Hoopsworld: PDX and NYK will likely throw a lot of money at SVG this summer

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Here is BoobNoMore's ideal coach Stan Van Gundy's idea of pick and roll defense late in a game from tonight.

Yeah, let's have the Blazers hire this guy!! :MARIS61:

[video=youtube;gsuAuE__H_k]


What does a player getting injured have with his coach's idea of how to play defense? If that's the case, I guess we should blame all of Oden's injuries on Nate's defensive strategy.

This is a ridiculous strawman, even for you, the king of the strawman argument.

OK, you win. Ryan Anderson got hurt, therefore Stan Van Gundy is a horrible coach in spite of his regular and post season winning percentages. What tremendous insight!

BNM
 
I would rather have Jeff than Steve. Jeff seems to focus on defense and sets up a damn good half court offense. He's not afraid to run, but understands what it takes to win in the playoffs.

You mean Stan. Not Steve.
 
I stand by most post, and your spin doesn't really matter to me. Why not address Shaq calling out SVG, and not respecting him at all? Perhaps you can tell me again how Derrick Williams doesn't play SF? You disappeared after that disaster, right? :)

What has SVG done with elite talent/MVP caliber players? NOTHING

Got Wade out of the first round his rookie year. Got Dwight Howard to the NBA Finals. His teams also traditionally play very well om the road though I'm not sure about this year. Anyway, he's hardly done "nothing."
 
Last edited:
Van Gundy's first year coaching in Miami was Wade's rookie year. There was no Shaq. Wade missed 20 games and the highest PER on the team was Lamar Odom's 18.5. That team had three players with PER > 14.0 (Odom at 18.5, Wade at 17.6 and Eddie Jones at 16.7). They had no all stars, two below average starters and a very weak bench full of below average cast-offs and role players. Yet, SVG managed to get that squad to the second round.

Compare that to the first time Nate took the Blazers to the playoffs. Brandon Roy was in his third season, healthy and had a PER of 24.0 (7th in the league) was 6th in WS and WS/48 an all star, 2nd team All NBA and 9th in MVP voting. Nate had a roster full of above average players. He had SIX players with PER > 15.0 (Roy = 24.0, Aldridge = 19.1, Oden = 18.1, Rudy = 15.5, Joel = 15.4, Outlaw = 15.1). That team was stacked from top to bottom, inside and out - and all players were healthy going into that series. Yet, Nate McMillan couldn't even get them past the first round. In fact, in spite of home court advantage, he couldn't even get to a 7th game in the first round. Given the talent McMillan had, that series against Houston was a total failure on his part.



Wow, are you really this clueless, or is it all part of your act? That season, Shaq played the first two games and then missed the next 19 games due to injury (sprained ankle). It was no coincidence that Pat Riley took over as head coach the exact same day Shaq came back from his injury. Riley was just waiting for his opportunity to swoop in and "lead" the Heat to a title. A healthy Shaq made that possible.

And for the record, Van Gundy wasn't shit canned, he resigned. At least that was the official word. It was obvious at the time he was forced out, and it was even accurately predicted, in advance by several sports writers, including Adrian Wojnarowski, who wrote in July (Van Gundy resigned in mid-December):

"Pat Riley needs to stop framing this as some noble return to his passion, and tell the truth. His ego could never stay in the background and let Stan Van Gundy get the shot at bringing that championship parade to the shores of Biscayne Bay.

Suddenly, coaching the Heat is a glamour job again, and Riley's ego would never let him sit that out. If Riley will want to insist this was a hard choice based purely on the best chance for a championship, or finding the best coach for the job, ancient NBA history backs him. It's just that modern history doesn't. Across the past two seasons, almost no one in the league has coached better than Van Gundy."

And BTW, the season before he was "shit canned", Van Gundy led the Heat to a game seven in the Eastern Conference Finals against the defending champion Pistons - and the Heat might have won that series in six games had Dwyane Wade not been injured and missed game six (the Heat were up 3 games to 2 at that point).



Stan Van Gundy may, or may not be the right guy for the job, but he's infinitely better, and has a far superior track record, especially in the post season than the guy we just fired - your man crush Nate McMillan. It's laughable to even compare the two. Van Gundy's teams almost always make it past the first round (one exception), McMillian's teams almost never do (again one exception).

BNM

there you go. PapaG just got owned. No two ways about it.
 
Tince, why would you object so strongly to D'Antoni?
 
What does a player getting injured have with his coach's idea of how to play defense? If that's the case, I guess we should blame all of Oden's injuries on Nate's defensive strategy.

This is a ridiculous strawman, even for you, the king of the strawman argument.

OK, you win. Ryan Anderson got hurt, therefore Stan Van Gundy is a horrible coach in spite of his regular and post season winning percentages. What tremendous insight!

BNM

Switching Ryan Anderson onto Ty Lawson is just brilliant coaching. If Nate did that, you'd be writing yet another Hate Nate book on how shitty a coach he is and how he can't defend the pick and roll. SVG has been called out by Shaq as being not up to the task, Dwight Howard apparently will stay if Orlando only if the Magic get rid of him, yet that's the guy who the Blazers should hire.

Classic.
 
Last edited:
Got Wade out of the first round his rookie year. Got Dwight Howard to the NBA Finals. His teams also traditionally play very well om the road though I'm not sure about this year. Anyway, he's hardly done "nothing."

Got shit-canned because he lost his team, and the team went on to win the title that year.

I'll keep saying it until the day I die. It's the players, not the coach, although the only empirical data says that changing coaches in Miami brought them a title.
 
SVG has coached an MVP-level player every season as a HC, and he's made two conference finals and one NBA Finals.

Hire him! He's the guy that gets you a title after you fire him during the season.
 
Whoever we hire won't be good enough for a lot of people here. SVG would be an ok hire considering. D'Antonio would be the only "big name" hire I would be way against.

If Deron Williams signs in Portland and the Blazers get lucky in the lottery, whoever coaches the team will have a huge advantage over most other coaches in the league. Two All-NBA players and perhaps an impact rookie, along with some decent role players.

Conversely, if NJ keeps their pick, the Blazers pick 12th or so, and no other star player signs during the summer, it won't matter if Red Auerbach's ghost comes back to coach the team. It takes a certain level of incompetence to mess up elite talent; for an example, Mike D'Antoni this year in New York is probably the best example of the last few years.
 
papa - if it's the players and not the coach then why do you care so much?
 
FWIW,
I would be absolutely thrilled if we got SVG,
terribly disappointed if we got Mike D'Antoni,
OK if we just kept KC.
 
SVG has coached an MVP-level player every season as a HC, and he's made two conference finals and one NBA Finals.

What MVP-level player did he have in 2003-04? Lamar Odom and his team leading 18.5 PER????? Bwa ha ha!!! Not a single player on that roster received any MVP votes. Not a single all star, no All-NBA players. Yet, Van Gundy got that team to the second round. Nate had a top-10 MVP candidate in Brandon Roy, and a stacked roster, in 2008-09, but couldn't get past the first round. You're argument isn't just flat out wrong, it's also inconsistent. But, I guess that is to be expected...

Hire him! He's the guy that gets you a title after you fire him during the season.

Again, you choose to ignore that Shaq was injured for 19 of the 21 games Van Gundy coached that season. Sure, Pat Riley looked great when he took over - the very day Shaq came back from his injury? Who wouldn't?

How many titles has Nate won? How many times did he get past the first round. Given Nate's near complete failure in the post season (one time past the first round in 11 seasons, 0.412 winning percentage), I would think you'd be all for a guy who took his teams past the first round five times in six seasons and has a .573 playoff winning percentage. But then logic and reason were never your strong suits.

BNM
 
Got shit-canned because he lost his team, and the team went on to win the title that year.

Yeah, he lost his team to injury! Shaq missed 19 of the 21 games Van Gundy coached with a sprained ankle.

They also had a legitimate shot at winning the title the previous season when they took the defending champ Pistons to 7 games - and may have won that series if Wade hadn't goteen injured.

I can't believe you're actually trashing a guy with a MUCH better playoff record than your favorite man crush, Nate McMillan, who is the poster boy for post season ineptitude. Van Gundy made it past the first round more times in his first two seasons than Nate did in his first 11.

BNM
 
papa - if it's the players and not the coach then why do you care so much?

Because I don't think it's necessary to pay big bucks for a Stan Van Gundy. The Blazers tried that with McMillan; Nate's biggest problem ended up being 2/3 of the franchise players got injured, not that he was bringing the team down with bad coaching.
 
Last edited:
Because I don't think it's necessary to pay big bucks for a Stan Van Gundy. The Blazers tried that with McMillan; Nate's biggest problem ended up being the franchise players got injured, not that he was bringing the team down with bad coaching.

What franchise player was injured in the 2008-09 post season? He had a stacked, healthy roster and home court advantage and couldn't get past the first round.

BNM
 
Yeah, he lost his team to injury! Shaq missed 19 of the 21 games Van Gundy coached with a sprained ankle.

They also had a legitimate shot at winning the title the previous season when they took the defending champ Pistons to 7 games - and may have won that series if Wade hadn't goteen injured.

I can't believe you're actually trashing a guy with a MUCH better playoff record than your favorite man crush, Nate McMillan, who is the poster boy for post season ineptitude. Van Gundy made it past the first round more times in his first two seasons than Nate did in his first 11.

BNM

Players get injured. Shaq didn't respect SVG, and saw him choke in big moments. If making it out of the first round with a first-team All-NBA player is the goal, than I guess SVG would be OK. If you want to win titles, I don't think he's the guy, and he's been called out by one of the ten best players in NBA history as losing his composure when the pressure is on. That's why he was fired, not because Shaq was injured. Riley saw that SVG didn't have the players' respect due to the previous year's playoff meltdown, so Pat moved in, and the rest is NBA history.
 
What franchise player was injured in the 2008-09 post season? He had a stacked, healthy roster and home court advantage and couldn't get past the first round.

BNM

12-man playoff roster, and the 12 players who played the most during the season.

Steve Blake
Brandon Roy
Nic Batum (rookie)
LMA
Przy

Bench:

Outlaw (6th man)
Oden (rookie who disappeared in the playoffs)
Rudy (rookie)
Sergio (back-up PG)
Channing Frye
Michael Ruffin (Shavlik Randolph at times early in the season)
Jerryd Bayless

How is that "stacked"? Roy had a great season, everybody else was below a 20 PER (LMA 19, next best Przy at 15.5), and even Roy wasn't playing at an MVP level.

That team winning 54 games is one of the best regular season coaching jobs of the past decade. LOL at that team being "stacked" with 3 rookies playing in the 9-man rotation. Four out of 11, if you want to count Bayless as the 11th man.

Nate doesn't play rookies? His team won 54 games with 4 rookies in the top 11 players.
 
Anyhow BNM, the point I was trying to make is that I just don't see how throwing big money at SVG really accomplishes anything if the team can't upgrade its talent. I didn't really want to make it a Nate vs. SVG thing; it was more about the impact of SVG, and how I don't think it really means all that much.
 
12-man playoff roster, and the 12 players who played the most during the season.

I already addressed this, but if you prefer a different format:

Steve Blake - PER = 14.4

Brandon Roy - PER = 24.0, 7th best in the entire league, 6th best in both WS and WS/48, all-star, 2nd team All-NBA, 9th in MVP voting

Nic Batum (rookie)

LMA - PER = 19.1
Przy - PER = 15.4

Bench:

Outlaw (6th man) - PER = 15.1
Oden (rookie who disappeared in the playoffs) - PER = 18.1
Rudy (rookie) - PER = 15.5
Sergio (back-up PG)
Channing Frye
Michael Ruffin (Shavlik Randolph at times early in the season)
Jerryd Bayless

How is that "stacked"?

You're kidding, right???? Roy was a legitmate top 10 player in the league that season (you could argue top 6 or 7). That alone should be enough to get you past the first round. Six of the top nine players had PER > 15.0. Both the starting and backup centers were above average. Aldridge had a PER = 19.1 as the second option. Rudy set a rookie record for 3-poionters made and was damn effective off the banch that year (his only full season before the back injury suffered at the hands of Trevor Ariza). Blake, the 7th best player on the team had a PER of 14.4.

Compare that to the 2003-04 Heat team Van Gundy took to the second round. Lamar Odom was the best player in that team with a PER of 18.5 (compared to Roy's 24.0 and Aldridge's 19.1). Wade was a rookie with a 17.6 PER that missed 20 games. And Eddie Jones, who's natural position was the same as Wade's was the only other player with PER >14.0. They had no all-stars (not even close), not one 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA, no one that even received a single MVP vote. But, they managed to get to the second round.

The Blazers best players, were far, far better than their best players, and our role players and bench players were also far, far better than theirs. We had several bench players better than 2 or 3 of their starters. Yet, the Heat made the second round and the Blazers were sent home in six games, in spite of having home court advantage.

Is Stan Van Gundy "the" answer? I don't know. Is he an upgrade over Nate McMillan? His record, especially in the post season, says he is - by a very large margin.

Nate doesn't play rookies? His team won 54 games with 4 rookies in the top 11 players.

Ah yes, the obligatory PapaG strawman. Where have I ever said Nate doesn't play rookies? I don't believe I ever have, certainly not in this thread. Any other unrelated, tangential factors you'd like to include to draw attention away from the fact the Stan Van Gundy accomplised more, with less, in the post season than Nate McMillan.

BNM
 
Tince, why would you object so strongly to D'Antoni?

I'm not a fan of his for a view reasons:

1) From everything I've heard he's one of those annoying coaches that players tune out quicker than most if things aren't going right. I believe Steve Nash and Grant Hills professionalism kept D'Antoni afloat much longer than he would most places.

2) I'm not a believer in his style working in the playoffs when the game slows down.

3) I feel not only is defense not a strength of his, it is something he doesn't care about and I think you have to have a balanced team to win.

I could be wrong, but I personally think D'Antoni is overrated.
 
SVG has coached an MVP-level player every season as a HC, and he's made two conference finals and one NBA Finals.

Hire him! He's the guy that gets you a title after you fire him during the season.

Rep-worthy!
 
Thanks for your clear reply, Tince. A reasoned and polite answer is a rara avis.
 
Don't know why but the more I think about it, the more I think SVG is a good candidate
 
Thanks for your clear reply, Tince. A reasoned and polite answer is a rara avis.

I'd love to have more exchanges like this on the board! If we got D'Antoni I would be rooting like heck to be wrong and have the Blazers go on to win multiple titles!
 
I'd love to have more exchanges like this on the board! If we got D'Antoni I would be rooting like heck to be wrong and have the Blazers go on to win multiple titles!

I can also guess that you wouldn't be whining about D'Antoni every game, too. Neither would I. If you're the coach of the team I cheer for, I support you through thick and thin. I don't claim to know better than the coach of an NBA team.
 
I can also guess that you wouldn't be whining about D'Antoni every game, too. Neither would I. If you're the coach of the team I cheer for, I support you through thick and thin. I don't claim to know better than the coach of an NBA team.

That's how I feel too. I know I don't know near as much as any assistant coach in the league, let along and head coach.

Even as much as I hate Felton, I want him to score every time he puts a shot up, it's just how I'm wired!
 
What about Calipari? I saw on TV that the Knicks might go after him with a lot of money. Should Portland try to outbid them?
 
Yeah, let's hire Van Gundy. First Shaq calls him out, and now Howard knows he's a flaming shitbag as well. I wonder how long it would take LMA to tune him out?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bask...irms-Dwight-Howard-wants-him-fired/54041976/1

Magic chaos: Van Gundy acknowledges Howard wants him fired

In the latest twist to the Dwight Howard saga, his relationship with Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy appears to have taken a major downturn and puts their ability to co-exist for the rest of this season in doubt.


By David Santiago, AP

After a report on Wednesday from a local TV station said Howard had asked Magic management to fire Van Gundy, the coach said after Thursday's morning shootaround that he knows that to be true.

The Magic play host to the New York Knicks tonight.

"I know he has," Van Gundy told reporters. "That's just the way it is. Again, I've been dealing with that all year. It's not anything real bothersome. You go out and do your job."

Howard walked up to Van Gundy and gave him a hug, not realizing the coach had just confirmed a report that Howard had previously denied.
"Why would I want Stan fired with 12 games to go?" said Howard, questioning the source of the information and not realizing it was Van Gundy.

Van Gundy is in his fifth season with Orlando (32-22) and has his team as the fifth seed in the Eastern Conference going into Thursday's games. He led the Magic to the 2009 NBA Finals where they fell to the Los Angeles Lakers in five games. Last season, the Magic made a first-round exit from the playoffs.

"It's not a matter of being committed to me. It's a matter of being committed to the team and trying to do everything you can to help the team win games. That's all I'm concerned with," said Van Gundy, who owns a 336-201 career record that includes two-plus seasons with the Miami Heat. "As far as the other stuff, I don't think that matters. I don't need love and support here at my job. I'll turn to my family for that. I don't need these guys giving me hugs and pats on the back."
 
What about Calipari? I saw on TV that the Knicks might go after him with a lot of money. Should Portland try to outbid them?

College coaches outside of Larry Brown, don't have a good history as NBA coaches.
 
College coaches outside of Larry Brown, don't have a good history as NBA coaches.

Yeah I agree. The nba pace is much faster. There is way more talent and games go by quickly. It's a tough transition, IMO.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top