Hornets @ Blazers 1/25/2010 Game Thread

[Natebishop3]

When was the last time the Lakers lost a game they were winning by 8 points with less than 4 minutes left by scoring only a single point for the rest of the game? When was the last time they did it twice, at home, in a span of less than 3 weeks to teams that lose twice as many road games as they win?

I spite of all the rah rah feel good vibes about this team overachieving in the face of all the injuries, it's still inexcusable to piss away games you have won, at home, because your coach can't or won't call anything but ISO plays over the last three minutes of the game. Not only is it stupid to not learn from your failures, it also does a great disservice to the players who worked their asses off to have a lead, and the game won, only to see it all pissed away by the same stupid, moronic play calling that cost you a win the last time you were in the same situation.

Sorry, as hard as this team has worked, they don't deserve to lose games like this - and they wouldn't if they had a coach who knew how to call plays that involve more than one player. Nate doesn't get a free pass on this. This loss and the Memphis loss rest squarely on his shoulders. I'm sure he'll blame it on "poor execution" down the stretch, but it's hard to execute a play when the other team and everyone in the gym knows exactly what play you're going to run and how to stop it.

BNM

Tince will defend McMillan until he's blue in the face, so there's really no point in arguing with him.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Sorry, as hard as this team has worked, they don't deserve to lose games like this - and they wouldn't if they had a coach who knew how to call plays that involve more than one player. Nate doesn't get a free pass on this. This loss and the Memphis loss rest squarely on his shoulders. I'm sure he'll blame it on "poor execution" down the stretch, but it's hard to execute a play when the other team and everyone in the gym knows exactly what play you're going to run and how to stop it.

BNM

[video=youtube;ySIkXF19fbo]

 

[Tince]

Tince will defend McMillan until he's blue in the face, so there's really no point in arguing with him.

Only against the people who bash him until they are blue in the face

I'll defend a good percentage of NBA coaches, not just Nate. I have a hard time believing that we have 10+ people who post here who know more about coaching basketball than Nate. Every forum has their know-it-all posters who know more than Coach K, Tommy Lasorda, and Bill Walsh combined...

 

[rocketeer]

Tince will defend McMillan until he's blue in the face, so there's really no point in arguing with him.

and you'll do the opposite.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm not sure the answer to your question, but you could look it up as easily as I could. When you look it up, make sure that you are doing it in games where Kobe is out, along with Bynum, and two other significant rotation players.

If you think running ISO plays over and over down the stretch of close games is uncommon from the top teams in the NBA, you are mistaken. In fact, it's is quite the norm. Watch what Cleveland, Denver, LA, and Dallas run down the stretch. P&R for Lebron, ISO for Kobe, P&R for Dirk, ISO for Carmello or Billiups. Over and over, they beat it like a dead horse deep into the playoffs.

Try watching another NBA team for an entire season and you would be shocked at how much smarter you think you are than that head coach as well. The game is really really easy to coach sitting in front of your TV. Trust me, I'm the best ref to never call and NBA game and I do it from my couch on a nightly basis!

We don't even run the pick and roll. That's a two man play where you have two scoring options. We either run straight ISO or high pick for the player with the ball with no rolling to the basket.

Do those same teams keep running it over and over and over when it isn't working? I'm guessing not. At least I've never seen any other coach stubbornly run the same failed play repeatedly when it isn't working. It makes sense to run a play repeatedly when it's working. Running it repeatedly when it's not working is the definition of insanity.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Only against the people who bash him until they are blue in the face

I'll defend a good percentage of NBA coaches, not just Nate. I have a hard time believing that we have 10+ people who post here who know more about coaching basketball than Nate. Every forum has their know-it-all posters who know more than Coach K, Tommy Lasorda, and Bill Walsh combined...

I have never in my entire life said I'd be a better coach than Nate McMillan, or any other NBA coach.

However, I do believe Nate gets out coached on a regular basis by other coaches when it comes to in game play calling and that there are better coaches in this league than him. I want one of those coaches. We have the richest owner in sports. We should also have the best coach. We do not. I want better.

BNM

 

[Tince]

We don't even run the pick and roll. That's a two man play where you have two scoring options. We either run straight ISO or high pick for the player with the ball with no rolling to the basket.

Do those same teams keep running it over and over and over when it isn't working? I'm guessing not. At least I've never seen any other coach stubbornly run the same failed play repeatedly when it isn't working. It makes sense to run a play repeatedly when it's working. Running it repeatedly when it's not working is the definition of insanity.

BNM

We run the Pick and Roll all the time when Roy is healthy. We run it with Bayless and Miller as well, I'd be willing to bet we ran it 10+ times tonight.

And to answer your second question: Yes, I see it all the time. I logged a Heat game about two weeks ago where they kept running a high pick and roll with Wade and Haslem and I bet it only worked 1 out of 7 times, but they kept going back to it. This happens a lot more than people think...

Just like if Roy has missed his last 4 shots, but there is 15 seconds left on the clock and we are down 1, the majority of coaches in the league would go back to Roy.

 

[Tince]

I have never in my entire life said I'd be a better coach than Nate McMillan, or any other NBA coach.

However, I do believe Nate gets out coached on a regular basis by other coaches when it comes to in game play calling and that there are better coaches in this league than him. I want one of those coaches. We have the richest owner in sports. We should also have the best coach. We do not. I want better.

BNM

If you could name 15 coaches in the NBA that out coach Nate I would be shocked and I now for a fact I would have a major argument with at least half of them. Like I said earlier in the thread, I think Nate ranks somewhere between 5-7 in the league when it comes to NBA coaches. I don't think the Phil Jackson and Jerry Salons of the world are going to be coming to Portland anytime soon.

I remember everyone bashing Dunleavy 10 years ago saying some of the same things about his predictability and how we need to make a change, and we got Mo Cheeks.

 

[Boob-No-More]

We run the Pick and Roll all the time when Roy is healthy. We run it with Bayless and Miller as well, I'd be willing to bet we ran it 10+ times tonight.

Tonight, a pick and roll? How many times did the ball get passed to the player rolling to the basket? It sure as hell didn't happen once in the last 3:26 when the game was pissed away by Nate's predicable, ineffective play calling.

BNM

 

[Tince]

Tonight, a pick and roll? How many times did the ball get passed to the player rolling to the basket? It sure as hell didn't happen once in the last 3:26 when the game was pissed away by Nate's predicable, ineffective play calling.

BNM

I didn't know Nate passed the ball on the Pick and Roll, I think that falls on the PG. And yes it happened, I recall Pendergraph getting a dunk on one of the very first possession in fact.

You did notice NOH packing the paint on defense didn't you? They were mainly facing the ball and daring us to shoot. Unless you know of a powerful and explosive 7'0" center we have sitting on our bench, I'm not sure who would be qualified to roll to the hoop and clog up the lane.

You won't see guys like Howard or LMA roll down the key a lot because they typically don't finish well in traffic. Now guys like Joel roll almost 100% of the time because they can't shoot. It makes sense to me that these guys roll or slip according to their skill set.

 

[Tince]

I'm off to bed. Too bad we didn't get the win tonight, hopefully we can take Utah down on Wednesday!

Rip City fellas

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't think the Phil Jackson and Jerry Salons of the world are going to be coming to Portland anytime soon.

Why not? Stop thinking small. Phil's contract is up at the end of the season. So, coincidentally is Nate's. How convenient. Phil is PISSED at Jerry Buss because his main squeeze, Jeanie Buss, who deserved the job, was passed over to run the team in favor of her much less qualified brother, Jim.

Paul Allen is the richest owner in sports. He wants to win a championship badly. There is no salary cap for coaches. The second Phil's contract with the Lakers expires, Paul Allen should be with him on the phone with him personally offering whatever it would take to get Phil in Portland. Paul just signed LaMarcus Aldridge to a $65 million contract (that will cost Paul Allen significantly more when we are over the luxury tax threshold). Why not offer Phil that much over 3 years? That's a big raise over the $12 million the Lakers are paying him. If that's not enough, try $75 million over three years. There is no salary cap or luxury tax on coaches salaries. Paul has no kids. He can't take his billions with him when he goes. Why not spend it on someone who will increase the odds of getting what he really wants - an NBA championship?

BNM

 

[Tince]

Why not? Stop thinking small. Phil's contract is up at the end of the season. So, coincidentally is Nate's. How convenient. Phil is PISSED at Jerry Buss because his main squeeze, Jeanie Buss, who deserved the job, was passed over to run the team in favor of her much less qualified brother, Jim.

Paul Allen is the richest owner in sports. He wants to win a championship badly. There is no salary cap for coaches. The second Phil's contract with the Lakers expires, Paul Allen should be with him on the phone with him personally offering whatever it would take to get Phil in Portland. Paul just signed LaMarcus Aldridge to a $65 million contract (that will cost Paul Allen significantly more when we are over the luxury tax threshold). Why not offer Phil that much over 3 years? That's a big raise over the $12 million the Lakers are paying him. If that's not enough, try $75 million over three years. There is no salary cap or luxury tax on coaches salaries. Paul has no kids. He can't take his billions with him when he goes. Why not spend it on someone who will increase the odds of getting what he really wants - an NBA championship?

BNM

1) I'd be shocked if he'd leave

2) You don't put the triangle offense in over night

3) I'd rather the $75M go to resigning our players and going into the luxury tax.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I didn't know Nate passed the ball on the Pick and Roll, I think that falls on the PG. And yes it happened, I recall Pendergraph getting a dunk on one of the very first possession in fact.

The entire content of my post game comments were based on the critical last 3:26 of the game - that's where Nate's predictable, repetitive play calling cost us another game we should have won (just like the Memphis game on the 5th).

It's great that Pendergraph got a dunk off the pick and roll for our first basket of the game. That's what happens when Nate gives the players a little freedom and let's Andre call some plays. It's when Nate takes over the play calling late in the game that everything becomes predictable and grinds to a halt.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

1) I'd be shocked if he'd leave

2) You don't put the triangle offense in over night

So, you don't put any system in overnight. If you're going to put in a new system, why not go with a coach and a system that has proven results (ten titles). How many NBA championships has Nate McMillan's system won? How many years do we stick with it before we try something new?

3) I'd rather the $75M go to resigning our players and going into the luxury tax.

Why not both? It's not an either-or situation. Paul has plenty of money to resign his players AND pay Phil. The money spent on Phil would be money well spent. It doesn't count against the salary cap or the luxury tax. If you're going to be investing heavily in your players, doesn't it make sense to pay what it takes to get a coach who can guide them to a championship?

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

and you'll do the opposite.

Where was the argument in my post? I was simply saying that Tince believes that McMillan is a good coach, and there are those of us on this forum who feel otherwise. Tince can show evidence, as can we. It isn't changing anyone's minds.

The fact that McMillan waited as long as he did to take Steve Blake out of the starting lineup and put Andre Miller in his place, is all the evidence I will ever need. Refute that Rocketeer.

 

[rocketeer]

Where was the argument in my post? I was simply saying that Tince believes that McMillan is a good coach, and there are those of us on this forum who feel otherwise. Tince can show evidence, as can we. It isn't changing anyone's minds.

change "tince" to "natebishop" and you have exactly what i'm saying. you're willing to argue that nate is a terrible coach regardless of what happens.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If you could name 15 coaches in the NBA that out coach Nate I would be shocked and I now for a fact I would have a major argument with at least half of them. Like I said earlier in the thread, I think Nate ranks somewhere between 5-7 in the league when it comes to NBA coaches. I don't think the Phil Jackson and Jerry Salons of the world are going to be coming to Portland anytime soon.

I remember everyone bashing Dunleavy 10 years ago saying some of the same things about his predictability and how we need to make a change, and we got Mo Cheeks.

If we are talking pure X's and O's, I could name 28. I think Nate is better than Mike Brown.

 

[MIXUM]

the only problem with the grizz.... no depth at all. one of those starters go down and they are all but screwed.

 

[LittleAlex]

I looked through a bunch of posts here but haven't seen one that mentions the obvious fact that the Hornets shoot WAY more free throws then Portland.

Another interesting stat: Bayless only played 13 minutes.



Why in the name of all that is unholy was Blake in the game for the last 7 minutes instead of Bayless? Why did Blake play 22 minutes in a game when Portland needed someone to be aggressive and make Paul play defense?



Nate may very well be doing a good job in a whole bunch of other areas but his handling of Blake versus Bayless is a fucking sad joke. Actually, Nate's over use of Blake is my number one biggest complaint.

There have been games where Blake has it going and is effective. Last night wasn't one of them and it was obvious after the first 8 minutes of the game.

 

[Kaydow]

I looked through a bunch of posts here but haven't seen one that mentions the obvious fact that the Hornets shoot WAY more free throws then Portland.

Another interesting stat: Bayless only played 13 minutes.



Why in the name of all that is unholy was Blake in the game for the last 7 minutes instead of Bayless? Why did Blake play 22 minutes in a game when Portland needed someone to be aggressive and make Paul play defense?



Nate may very well be doing a good job in a whole bunch of other areas but his handling of Blake versus Bayless is a fucking sad joke. Actually, Nate's over use of Blake is my number one biggest complaint.

There have been games where Blake has it going and is effective. Last night wasn't one of them and it was obvious after the first 8 minutes of the game.

Inexplicable. There are some games when dribble penetration by our playmakers allows Blakey to sit out at the 3 point line and shoot darts - last night wasn't one of them. No Roy, Miller couldn't get by anybody last night, and Bayless wasn't out there with Blake. When there are no open 3's for Blake to shoot, he shouldn't be in there. He doesn't do anything else well enough to justify it. Just incredibly poor substitutions by Nate (and I'm not a Nate basher, but last night was awful)

 

[Tince]

I looked through a bunch of posts here but haven't seen one that mentions the obvious fact that the Hornets shoot WAY more free throws then Portland.

Another interesting stat: Bayless only played 13 minutes.



Why in the name of all that is unholy was Blake in the game for the last 7 minutes instead of Bayless? Why did Blake play 22 minutes in a game when Portland needed someone to be aggressive and make Paul play defense?



Nate may very well be doing a good job in a whole bunch of other areas but his handling of Blake versus Bayless is a fucking sad joke. Actually, Nate's over use of Blake is my number one biggest complaint.

There have been games where Blake has it going and is effective. Last night wasn't one of them and it was obvious after the first 8 minutes of the game.

Do you think it's possible his minutes were limited considering he is playing with a sprained ankle? I know that would really throw a wrench in the point you are trying to get across, but I would be shocked if Jensen didn't limit his minutes just like he limited Batums. Barrett said in pregame that Bayless was unsure if he'd even be able to go.

 

[e_blazer]

Do you think it's possible his minutes were limited considering he is playing with a sprained ankle? I know that would really throw a wrench in the point you are trying to get across, but I would be shocked if Jensen didn't limit his minutes just like he limited Batums. Barrett said in pregame that Bayless was unsure if he'd even be able to go.

There you go, using logic again.

 

[hasoos]

Do you think it's possible his minutes were limited considering he is playing with a sprained ankle? I know that would really throw a wrench in the point you are trying to get across, but I would be shocked if Jensen didn't limit his minutes just like he limited Batums. Barrett said in pregame that Bayless was unsure if he'd even be able to go.

I believe the coach makes the decisions as to who should have been in. When Bayless was in there, Paul was getting "No Bueno" on th pentration. As soon as he swapped him out for Blake, he went off on us like no tomorrow. This is the bullshit I was talking about before with Nate. I have been extremely worried that as soon as players started coming back, he would start cutting Bayless numbers, and sure enough it has happened. IMO it shows that Nate really hasn't done anything special coaching. He did what he had to do, and it just happened it got player playing time who really deserve it, and now he has gone back to screwing them again for the sake of Blake, a guy who will never improve anymore and is lacking a complete game, when we could be developing guys who are already better than him, to make their game a complete game. Infuriating. But reality.

Andre Miller looked like he was dog ass tired last night. I can believe it with the number of games the Blazers have played the last 4 days.

Is it a problem when Rudy out rebounds your starting PF?

 

[EGame]

I believe the coach makes the decisions as to who should have been in. When Bayless was in there, Paul was getting "No Bueno" on th pentration. As soon as he swapped him out for Blake, he went off on us like no tomorrow. This is the bullshit I was talking about before with Nate. I have been extremely worried that as soon as players started coming back, he would start cutting Bayless numbers, and sure enough it has happened. IMO it shows that Nate really hasn't done anything special coaching. He did what he had to do, and it just happened it got player playing time who really deserve it, and now he has gone back to screwing them again for the sake of Blake, a guy who will never improve anymore and is lacking a complete game, when we could be developing guys who are already better than him, to make their game a complete game. Infuriating. But reality.

Andre Miller looked like he was dog ass tired last night. I can believe it with the number of games the Blazers have played the last 4 days.

Is it a problem when Rudy out rebounds your starting PF?

I'm glad I was not the only one who thought Bayless was playing excellent defense on Paul. I was beginning to think I was a bit biased (since Bayless is my favorite current player on the team and I think he deserves more playing time) with that assessment, but it did look like he was containing Paul for the most part. Oh well, that makes two of us.

 

[hasoos]

I'm glad I was not the only one who thought Bayless was playing excellent defense on Paul. I was beginning to think I was a bit biased (since Bayless is my favorite current player on the team and I think he deserves more playing time) with that assessment, but it did look like he was containing Paul for the most part. Oh well, that makes two of us.

I would challenge anybody who didn't think that was the case to sit down and watch a recording of the game again so we could isolate on it. Bayless had him shut down hard. He was fighting through screens, and several times Paul literally tried to body up on him and bounced off of him. Then Blake and Rudy are in, Rudy held his own for a few by scoring some, and then Rudy, and followed by Blake, both got owned.

That last posession was the topper, where Blake, with the decision to run between Paul(who actually had the ball) and Peja, chose to run and cover Peja, leaving Paul to take the jumper. For all the folks who talk about how savvy Blake is, how savvy is he now?

 

[LittleAlex]

Do you think it's possible his minutes were limited considering he is playing with a sprained ankle? I know that would really throw a wrench in the point you are trying to get across, but I would be shocked if Jensen didn't limit his minutes just like he limited Batums. Barrett said in pregame that Bayless was unsure if he'd even be able to go.

He sure didn't look gimpy nor did he look like he wanted to come out of the game.


So yes I considered his injury and no I don't think it should have prevented Nate from putting Bayless back in the game for the final 3 minutes.


I don't understand why in the world you would defend this. I get that Nate is a good coach and all. Far better then I would ever be.

But this isn't some obscure concept. Portland couldn't get points at the line because the one guy available to play who could do so was played as few minutes as a guy who has been out for the last 4 months.



And frankly, if Bayless was so fucking gimpy why the hell was he in the game for the last shot. Nate sure felt he could go then. Why not 180 seconds earlier?

 

[EGame]

If his gimp ankle can shut down Paul, I wonder what he can do fully healthy? Obviously this was a bit sarcastic, but my point stands the same: Him doing a tremendous job on Paul should have let him play most of the 4th anyway, let alone one of our only guys who can drive and put pressure on both Paul (making him work on D) and the interior defenders. Makes no sense.

 

[Tince]

He sure didn't look gimpy nor did he look like he wanted to come out of the game.


So yes I considered his injury and no I don't think it should have prevented Nate from putting Bayless back in the game for the final 3 minutes.


I don't understand why in the world you would defend this. I get that Nate is a good coach and all. Far better then I would ever be.

But this isn't some obscure concept. Portland couldn't get points at the line because the one guy available to play who could do so was played as few minutes as a guy who has been out for the last 4 months.



And frankly, if Bayless was so fucking gimpy why the hell was he in the game for the last shot. Nate sure felt he could go then. Why not 180 seconds earlier?

I apologize for mist interpreting your point. I thought you were upset he only played 15 minutes and wanted him to play significantly more. I didn't know you were just talking about three minutes.

I'm also confident Batum could have played more, but stupid Jensen limited him to 7 minutes a half. Oh well...

 

[BBert]

My point is if you want him in at the end, don't bring him off the bench cold.

Bayless forced that jumper, and he shot it early with just over a second left. If you look at the replay, he could have driven into traffic, taken that contested jumper, or dished to a wide open Martell Webster.

The correct answer is 'dish to a wide open Martell.' We also had only ONE player in any kind of rebound position and four players on the three-point line. That was a sad ending to a very good game.