House defeats bailout bill

[PapaG]

Market is now in a freefall.

Holy Crap...

 

[PapaG]

Recovering somewhat but Dow still down over 400 points.

 

[PapaG]

So who are the Dems who voted against the Pelosi plan?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

noice!

fuck communism.

 

[Tortimer]

Market is now in a freefall.

Holy Crap...

I don't want this bail out bill but now from what I have read and some of the people I trust I think it is needed or we will go into a depression with the whole world. I think they need to pass the bill that Bush wanted to with the only thing added that CEO's don't get rich off this buyout. The problem is the Democrats love to add to many things to these type of emergency bills. I also think the Republicans are almost as bad in this bill because it runs against what they usually stand for. I just have a feeling this isn't going to end with what the country and world needs to get past this problem. It could get really bad for the next 5-8 years IMO. I pity Obama or McCain trying to straighten out this mess. It probably will take their complete 4-8 years in office without doing anything else good.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I don't trust either McCain or Obama to lead this.

Jindal 2012!!!!

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I blame Bush, he has about as much credibility on the hill right now as Palin. : )

I mean really, he tells the American people and congrss how much a bailout plan is needed and we need bipartisianship on this issue . . . and he can't even get his own party to stand behind him.

What the heck did this guy do to the presidency . . . he is the Rodger Dangerfield president.

 

[SodaPopinski]

So who are the Dems who voted against the Pelosi plan?

Sorry PapaG - can't blame the Democrats for this one. 60% of them backed this plan. Less than 1/3 of Republicans backed it.

-Pop

 

[Ed O]

This is not shocking, and I think it's difficult to pin the blame on this not passing on Bush.

This sort of bailout is a potentially paradigm-shifting governmental action. There's a logical knee-jerk reaction by a portion of the US population to this kind of spending the same way there was/is to going to war. It's a big deal.

Hopefully failing to act now will not be a catastropic decision.

Ed O.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I blame Bush, he has about as much credibility on the hill right now as Palin. : )

I mean really, he tells the American people and congrss how much a bailout plan is needed and we need bipartisianship on this issue . . . and he can't even get his own party to stand behind him.

What the heck did this guy do to the presidency . . . he is the Rodger Dangerfield president.

The republicans don't stand behind this plan because they do not agree with it, nor do their constituents. I don't see why you blame bush on this not passing, kind of a weak argument you have there.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Sorry PapaG - can't blame the Democrats for this one. 60% of them backed this plan. Less than 1/3 of Republicans backed it.

-Pop

I hope this doesn't pass. corporate Bail-outs = not american.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I am god-damned proud for those that took a stand for what they believed in. most of the people FOR the bailout plan are like "I don't agree with this but I guess we have to". Fucking shit, come up with a better solution rather than be a bitch about it.

 

[maxiep]

Don't worry too much about the ups and downs of this drama. This deal will get done in some way, shape or form. There will be banks that collapse while waiting for it to arrive, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

There will probably be a more insurance-based version that gets passed. This bill is precisely why "compassionate conservatism" is a joke. It's liberalism with religion sticking its nose in--the worst of both worlds. President Bush and the House Democrats were in full agreement on this bill. It was only until John McCain gave the House Republicans the political cover to take a stand was there enough opposition to stop the ridiculous initial bill.

Hank Paulson is doing what he can right now, but with both sides trying to cover their asses for the upcoming election, it's a tough environment. My opinion is that he has too much trust in his former colleagues on Wall Street, but I'm an investment banking charlatan compared to him. Other than Bob Rubin, there isn't anyone else I feel more comfortable with in terms of handling this crisis.

 

[mook]

It's hard to imagine a worse time for a bill like this to come along. Even if this is absolutely the very best bill we could hope for (I don't really know), there's a huge short term risk that every congressman who approves it will get slaughtered by the competition in their race on this issue. Remember, every member of the House's job is up for grabs this fall.

Of course, if they don't vote for it they could get slaughtered too. "Congressman Jones stood by while our economy fell apart...."

But IMO there's more risk in sticking your neck out on this package. If the economy does tank, in conservative areas congressmen can at least say, "It's not like Big Gubmint was gonna help anyway." For them there's a built-in backlish for federalizing so much of the economy.

Anyway, I don't put this failing at the feet of Bush or anyone more than I just chalk it up to bad timing. One problem with our current system is that every failure has to have a villain. Sometimes crap just happens.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

The republicans don't stand behind this plan because they do not agree with it, nor do their constituents. I don't see why you blame bush on this not passing, kind of a weak argument you have there.

If Bush, in labeling this a financial crisis that could lead to a great depression, doesn't have the pull, as president of the United States, to rally his own party into passing a bill . . . well I think someone with greated leadership skills could pursuade their own party to pass a bill that will save the country from going into a depression.

I mean really, doesn't anyone care what Bush has to say anymore?

Remember it was Bush who talked about how urgent it was to get this passed quickly . . . whatever Bush is what congress is saying . . .

 

[BlazerWookee]

Sorry PapaG - can't blame the Democrats for this one. 60% of them backed this plan. Less than 1/3 of Republicans backed it.

-Pop

The Democrats could have passed this bill without a single Republican vote. Just sayin'.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

If Bush, in labeling this a financial crisis that could lead to a great depression, doesn't have the pull, as president of the United States, to rally his own party into passing a bill . . . well I think someone with greated leadership skills could pursuade their own party to pass a bill that will save the country from going into a depression.

I mean really, doesn't anyone care what Bush has to say anymore?

Remember it was Bush who talked about how urgent it was to get this passed quickly . . . whatever Bush is what congress is saying . . .

So they should just vote "yes" because the President tells them to? Abandon all checks and balances from this country's system of government?

Utterly ridiculous. If you believe that is how the country should be run, I really can't help you with this one.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

So they should just vote "yes" because the President tells them to? Abandon all checks and balances from this country's system of government?

Utterly ridiculous. If you believe that is how the country should be run, I really can't help you with this one.

No I don't think they should just vote yes. My point is giving the president very little credibility and respect.

I beleive we should have a strong leader in place that can get things done. The way I look at this is if it is so important, it shouldn't be that hard to get congress to pass a bill (apparently the financial sector could collapse if nothing is done and done qucikly). This wasn't just the president telling them to vote for the bill, this was the president saying the economy is on the brink of collapse unless qucik action is taken.

The president is saying this is about as big as it gets and congress (his own party) is saying whatever, we don't buy it. I agree that is why we have congress, to check the president and in this case they checked and trumped the president . . . apprently not that presssing of an issue as you say it is W.

 

[e_blazer]

The Democrats could have passed this bill without a single Republican vote. Just sayin'.

Not only that, but they only needed to change 13 votes in order to pass it. Pelosi knew what the status was before the vote was called, so why on earth would she let it come to a vote instead of spending a bit more time negotiating and twisting arms?

Couldn't be that the Dems were playing politics, figuring that a run on the market and pointing fingers at the Republicans would be good for Obama? Naw...they'd never do that. Of course, that little Republican-bashing press conference they just held does make one wonder.

 

[e_blazer]

No I don't think they should just vote yes. My point is giving the president very little credibility and respect.

I beleive we should have a strong leader in place that can get things done. The way I look at this is if it is so important, it shouldn't be that hard to get congress to pass a bill (apparently the financial sector could collapse if nothing is done and done qucikly). This wasn't just the president telling them to vote for the bill, this was the president saying the economy is on the brink of collapse unless qucik action is taken.

The president is saying this is about as big as it gets and congress (his own party) is saying whatever, we don't buy it. I agree that is why we have congress, to check the president and in this case they checked and trumped the president . . . apprently not that presssing of an issue as you say it is W.

Bush is a lame duck and we're right in the middle of a hotly contested presidential election. This thing couldn't have come at a worse time.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

No I don't think they should just vote yes. My point is giving the president very little credibility and respect.

I beleive we should have a strong leader in place that can get things done. The way I look at this is if it is so important, it shouldn't be that hard to get congress to pass a bill (apparently the financial sector could collapse if nothing is done and done qucikly). This wasn't just the president telling them to vote for the bill, this was the president saying the economy is on the brink of collapse unless qucik action is taken.

The president is saying this is about as big as it gets and congress (his own party) is saying whatever, we don't buy it. I agree that is why we have congress, to check the president and in this case they checked and trumped the president . . . apprently not that presssing of an issue as you say it is W.

I find that argument rather weak still. Bush pushed for this bill which actually is against most of the tenets of his party. He reached out to the democrats for a bi-partisan solution and urged his party to vote for the bill. However, you can't change how you view the world or your own ethics just because Bush tells you to.

To the members who voted no, this bill wasn't for them. Back to the drawing board. Its not indicative of Bush's power and influence whatsoever.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I find that argument rather weak still. Bush pushed for this bill which actually is against most of the tenets of his party. He reached out to the democrats for a bi-partisan solution and urged his party to vote for the bill. However, you can't change how you view the world or your own ethics just because Bush tells you to.

To the members who voted no, this bill wasn't for them. Back to the drawing board. Its not indicative of Bush's power and influence whatsoever.

I disagree. It is a tough time with the election and all, but if this is as big as they say, a respected president would have got this done.

Bush has no power or influence at this point . .. he is not invovled in any real way with the republican campaign and his policies and handling of the country is getting beat up by both Obama and McCain.

No one want to have anything to with Bush and it is sad when the leader of our country goes on primetime TV with a special address to the nation, trying to convince the people this bill is necessary and urging congress to act in this state of emergency . . . and he can't even convince his own party. I'm starting to wonder if this bailout is necessary . . .

 

[maxiep]

I disagree. It is a tough time with the election and all, but if this is as big as they say, a respected president would have got this done.

Name one. Presidents are neutered at this point.

Bush has no power or influence at this point . .. he is not invovled in any real way with the republican campaign and his policies and handling of the country is getting beat up by both Obama and McCain.

Check out the 2000 election.

No one want to have anything to with Bush and it is sad when the leader of our country goes on primetime TV with a special address to the nation, trying to convince the people this bill is necessary and urging congress to act in this state of emergency . . . and he can't even convince his own party. I'm starting to wonder if this bailout is necessary . . .

President Bush's power over the Congress eminates from his ability to punish those who oppose him and to embrace those who want his reflected glory. President Bush is out of office January 29th, so he can't really punish anyone. He's immensely unpopular, so there's no reflective glory.

In other words, he has no real power at this stage of his presidency.

As for whether or not a bailout is necessary, it is. Perhaps not in the this form, but the credit markets need a floor put under them or they will stop functioning.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Name one. Presidents are neutered at this point.



Check out the 2000 election.



President Bush's power over the Congress eminates from his ability to punish those who oppose him and to embrace those who want his reflected glory. President Bush is out of office January 29th, so he can't really punish anyone. He's immensely unpopular, so there's no reflective glory.

In other words, he has no real power at this stage of his presidency.

As for whether or not a bailout is necessary, it is. Perhaps not in the this form, but the credit markets need a floor put under them or they will stop functioning.

I agree . . . Bush has no pull to get things done.

Equivalent to a potted plant? : )

 

[maxiep]

I agree . . . Bush has no pull to get things done.

Equivalent to a potted plant? : )

It has less to do with President Bush and more to do with the position in the arc of the presidency.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I agree . . . Bush has no pull to get things done.

Equivalent to a potted plant? : )

you've got to give Bush a bit of credit in actually working with democrats on this, i think he has the best interests of the country in mind, however, this bill is not one that most of the party supports whatsoever.

there's chatter that Pelosi gave a speech which was basically a bitch session on republicans which turned a lot of them off.

 

[PapaG]

Sorry PapaG - can't blame the Democrats for this one. 60% of them backed this plan. Less than 1/3 of Republicans backed it.
-Pop

I am against the plan. It's pork-filled BS and it actually will increase the foreclosure rate while only rewarding the fat cats in the banking industry.

I am wondering which Dems voted against their own plan.

 

[ucatchtrout]

I am against the plan. It's pork-filled BS and it actually will increase the foreclosure rate while only rewarding the fat cats in the banking industry.

I am wondering which Dems voted against their own plan.

Maybe you should be wondering why McCain, who suspended his campaign to engineer the big bailout, and was claiming credit for it before the vote this morning, FAILED TO DELIVER.

 

[ucatchtrout]

there's chatter that Pelosi gave a speech which was basically a bitch session on republicans which turned a lot of them off.

guess they decided their fragile egos were more important than the good of the country.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Maybe you should be wondering why McCain, who suspended his campaign to engineer the big bailout, and was claiming credit for it before the vote this morning, FAILED TO DELIVER.

maybe if Obama joined with him in solidarity to get this done, it would have. But Obama drew a line in the sand and dared McCain to cross it.