House defeats bailout bill

[ucatchtrout]

you've got to give Bush a bit of credit in actually working with democrats on this

I do.

I also blame him for spending us into this mess in the first place.

 

[ucatchtrout]

maybe if Obama joined with him in solidarity to get this done, it would have. But Obama drew a line in the sand and dared McCain to cross it.

actually it was the republicans who didn't vote for the bailout.... not the demos,
and it was McCain who shot his mouth off about how he was gonna fix things
and broker a deal....AND FAILED TO DELIVER

 

[PapaG]

Maybe you should be wondering why McCain, who suspended his campaign to engineer the big bailout, and was claiming credit for it before the vote this morning, FAILED TO DELIVER.

Perhaps you are misunderstanding my position, because as I see it, McCain just did deliver.

Plus, this turd failed because there were Dems who didn't vote for their own plan. McCain is a Senator, FWIW, but what is clear is that Pelosi can't even control her own party.

 

[PapaG]

I do.

I also blame him for spending us into this mess in the first place.

What are you talking about? The banking/mortgage troubles have nothing to do with federal spending.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

actually it was the republicans who didn't vote for the bailout.... not the demos,
and it was McCain who shot his mouth off about how he was gonna fix things
and broker a deal....AND FAILED TO DELIVER

Why should they vote for the bailout? Remember, the Democrats could have passed this without ANY support from the republicans.

McCain wanted to try to fix things, but Obama just wanted to continue on, distract the country with a debate that really didn't mean much compared to these negotiations.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Perhaps you are misunderstanding my position, because as I see it, McCain just did deliver.

Plus, this turd failed because there were Dems who didn't vote for their own plan. McCain is a Senator, FWIW, but what is clear is that Pelosi can't even control her own party.

well, she's quite good at making speeches to piss off people ready to vote for something she wants!

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/29/house-republicans-blame-pelosis-speech/?mod=googlenews_wsj

House Republicans blamed the failure of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue plan Monday on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.), saying that Pelosi had been too partisan in a floor speech prior to the vote. (See the speech here, via CSPAN.)

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R., Ohio) said that Pelosi’s speech “poisoned” the Republican caucus and “caused a number of members we thought we could get to go south.”

Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R., Mo.) said he had 12 Republicans who would have voted for the bill but changed their minds, while Rep. Eric Cantor (R., Va.) holding up a copy of what he said was Pelosi’s floor remarks - said the speaker “frankly struck the tone of partisanship.” A senior aide to Pelosi rejected the Republican claims against the speaker, saying the suggestion that her speech motivated House Republicans to vote against the bailout plan was “absurd.”

 

[e_blazer]

Just in case you're interested, here's how Oregon's congressional delegation voted today:

Hooley (D): Aye
Walden (R): Aye
Blumenauer (D): No
DeFazio (D): No
Wu (D): No

 

[BlazerWookee]

It has less to do with President Bush and more to do with the position in the arc of the presidency.

Is that anything like the Ark of the Covenant?

Trouble Report

 

[PapaG]

Just in case you're interested, here's how Oregon's congressional delegation voted today:

Hooley (D): Aye
Walden (R): Aye
Blumenauer (D): No
DeFazio (D): No
Wu (D): No

Interesting that 3 out of the 4 Oregon Dems voted against the bill.

 

[Ed O]

Interesting that 3 out of the 4 Oregon Dems voted against the bill.

Clearly McCain's fault.

Or Bush's.

Maybe Ronald Reagan had a hand in it?

Ed O.

 

[barfo]

Clearly McCain's fault.

Or Bush's.

Maybe Ronald Reagan had a hand in it?

Ed O.

What I wanna know, Ed, is why you and that woman are so happy about it?

barfo

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm no fan of government bailouts of markets, but this is a special case. Considering that there is the very real possibility of a collapse of our credit markets if something doesn't get done, the fact that so many Democrats and Republicans voted "no" tells me less about the merits of the bill and more about the fears they probably have of an opponent being able to run an ad along the lines of, "My opponent [fill in the blank] voted to bail out the greedy wall-street fat cats, [He/She] doesn't care about the problems of main street, yada, yada, yada" To me this is more about the fact that members of the House are up for reelection every two years and could face the possibility of being jobless if they pass this through (regardless of whether or not it's the right thing to do).

In my opinion, doing nothing in this particular instance isn't just stupid, but near criminal in negligence; these representatives need stop trying to play CYA and do their god damned jobs for a change.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

yes, we should just rush and sign the second draft of a rushed bill that will affect us all for 10 years.


I say a freeze on all bonuses and raises on companies that are getting assisted with bailouts. executive compensation is readjusted!

If we have to pay for their bailouts, all those fuckers get a 50% pay cut.

 

[Nikolokolus]

yes, we should just rush and sign the second draft of a rushed bill that will affect us all for 10 years.


I say a freeze on all bonuses and raises on companies that are getting assisted with bailouts. executive compensation is readjusted!

If we have to pay for their bailouts, all those fuckers get a 50% pay cut.

I have no problem with that.

 

[maxiep]

yes, we should just rush and sign the second draft of a rushed bill that will affect us all for 10 years.


I say a freeze on all bonuses and raises on companies that are getting assisted with bailouts. executive compensation is readjusted!

If we have to pay for their bailouts, all those fuckers get a 50% pay cut.

So, you want the Government to dictate what people can make?

 

[ucatchtrout]

Perhaps you are misunderstanding my position, because as I see it, McCain just did deliver.

Plus, this turd failed because there were Dems who didn't vote for their own plan. McCain is a Senator, FWIW, but what is clear is that Pelosi can't even control her own party.

No

It failed because there is no one in charge in the Republican party.

The party leaders were all in favor of the plan

McCain was in favor of the plan
Bush was in favor of the plan
John Boehner was in favor of the plan

They couldn't deliver.


All the republican representatives from Arizona voted against the plan.
McCain couldn't deliver votes from his own state

Most of the republican representatives from Texas voted against the plan.
Bush couldn't deliver the votes from his own state.

 

[maxiep]

No

It failed because there is no one in charge in the Republican party.[/quote[

Question: If all the Democrats voted for the bill, would it have passed?

The party leaders were all in favor of the plan

McCain was in favor of the plan
Bush was in favor of the plan
John Boehner was in favor of the plan

They couldn't deliver.

Maybe McCain isn't the only Republican maverick in the House.

All the republican representatives from Arizona voted against the plan.
McCain couldn't deliver votes from his own state

Most of the republican representatives from Texas voted against the plan.
Bush couldn't deliver the votes from his own state.

How many votes did Barack Obama deliver?

 

[Ed O]

What I wanna know, Ed, is why you and that woman are so happy about it?

Well, I'm happy because the bill failed.

She's happy because... well. You can't see my right hand in the picture, can you?

Ed o.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

OK I've been taking a bit of a beating for blaming Bush on this. And maybe it was an extreme statement as I will admit you can't put this whole thing on Bush.

But I was just watching CNN (I know consider the source) and they (panel of 3) were basically saying Bush has no cred, no one is listening to him and because of that the general public doesn't get how big this is. They cited stats about how many are against bailout (50-1) and blame it on the fact Bush can't get anyone (public or congress) to listen and it puts the house reps in a tough spot when the public isn't behind them.

Not exactly my take, but elements that there is some blame or at least lack of Bush credibility that factors into this ugly mess.

 

[ucatchtrout]

No

It failed because there is no one in charge in the Republican party.[/quote[

Question: If all the Democrats voted for the bill, would it have passed?



Maybe McCain isn't the only Republican maverick in the House.




How many votes did Barack Obama deliver?

He didn't shoot his mouth off and grandstand.

McCain did.

And the republican leaders FAILED to get what THEY were on record as wanting.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

well, i guess they're taking off until Thursday due to jewish holidays?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

OK I've been taking a bit of a beating for blaming Bush on this. And maybe it was an extreme statement as I will admit you can't put this whole thing on Bush.

But I was just watching CNN (I know consider the source) and they (panel of 3) were basically saying Bush has no cred, no one is listening to him and because of that the general public doesn't get how big this is. They cited stats about how many are against bailout (50-1) and blame it on the fact Bush can't get anyone (public or congress) to listen and it puts the house reps in a tough spot when the public isn't behind them.

Not exactly my take, but elements that there is some blame or at least lack of Bush credibility that factors into this ugly mess.

Uhhh..maybe its because the bailout is a totally offensive idea to many republicans and americans? I don't think it has to do that much with Bush that the public and republicans don't like it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Uhhh..maybe its because the bailout is a totally offensive idea to many republicans and americans? I don't think it has to do that much with Bush that the public and republicans don't like it.

Uhhh maybe . . . or maybe Bush just hasn't gotten across how important this bailout is to the future of our country.

The secretary of state has calls the sitaution dire. Buffett has said this is like the 9/11 for the financial sector. Obama and McCain both say there needs to be swift action instead of inaction.

But maybe it's all a big bluff game. Fuck the bailout, let's roll the dice and see what happens. Besides, not many seem to be buying Bush's address to the nation about this issue.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Uhhh maybe . . . or maybe Bush just hasn't gotten across how important this bailout is to the future of our country.

The secretary of state has calls the sitaution dire. Buffett has said this is like the 9/11 for the financial sector. Obama and McCain both say there needs to be swift action instead of inaction.

But maybe it's all a big bluff game. Fuck the bailout, let's roll the dice and see what happens. Besides, not many seem to be buying Bush's address to the nation about this issue.

People know what the consequences are. They just don't feel like its appropriate to bail out wall street. That's at least how I am. Probably others too, including many of the congressmen. Partisan politics aside, this is a very serious issue....but the process has to be run through the checks and ballances of the United States system of government...the executive branch of the government is not the end-all of what happens, despite what you may think.

I, for one, am proud of those that voted against this bill and with their conscious instead of fear mongering and partisan bickering. This issue trumps that, and if further modifications HAVE to be made in order to make this thing go through, so be it.

Look, they're taking the next two days off to vote again....they are continuing "as usual" with their campaigns even though this action can decide the next DECADE of the US Economy....to me, it seemed extremely "rushed" and "pushed" and whenever you do that, there are a bunch of little items they slip in there.

 

[maxiep]

He didn't shoot his mouth off and grandstand.

McCain did.

And the republican leaders FAILED to get what THEY were on record as wanting.

No, he put his campaign above his job as a Senator. In fact today he said Democrats and Republicans need to get together and get this thing done--as if he wasn't part of Congress.

Bottom line, the Democrats defered to Obama to speak for them in Thursday's meeting, and he blew it. He did shoot his mouth off and grandstand, and as a result the guy that crowns himself a uniter killed the first draft of the bill. Now he's pretending he has nothing to do with this mess at all.

 

[barfo]

No, he put his campaign above his job as a Senator. In fact today he said Democrats and Republicans need to get together and get this thing done--as if he wasn't part of Congress.

Bottom line, the Democrats defered to Obama to speak for them in Thursday's meeting, and he blew it. He did shoot his mouth off and grandstand, and as a result the guy that crowns himself a uniter killed the first draft of the bill. Now he's pretending he has nothing to do with this mess at all.

Seriously, maxiep, you are claiming that Obama torpedoed the bailout?

I think that is as ridiculously partisan as claiming McCain torpedoed the bailout.

barfo

 

[Nikolokolus]

No, he put his campaign above his job as a Senator. In fact today he said Democrats and Republicans need to get together and get this thing done--as if he wasn't part of Congress.

Bottom line, the Democrats defered to Obama to speak for them in Thursday's meeting, and he blew it. He did shoot his mouth off and grandstand, and as a result the guy that crowns himself a uniter killed the first draft of the bill. Now he's pretending he has nothing to do with this mess at all.

If the voting split had broken more along party lines you might be able to claim this, but fact of the matter is, this is a wildly unpopular bill, and with the election some 30+ days away I'm sure it gave many the heebiejeebies ... and I also have no doubt that a good many representatives object to the whole notion on general principle.

one member of congress seems to think voting this Bill through could cost him his seat:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/marshall.economy/index.html

If anything, I think Obama and McCain have been mostly irrelevant to the process.

 

[Nikolokolus]

David Gergen has a few things to say:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/29/recovering-from-todays-disgrace/

 

[maxiep]

Seriously, maxiep, you are claiming that Obama torpedoed the bailout?

I think that is as ridiculously partisan as claiming McCain torpedoed the bailout.

barfo

Of course not. I was merely highlighting to those who want to paint the Republican candidate as the root of all that's evil on Capitol Hill that the other side isn't clean in this issue.