How bout this trade?

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What are you smoking? Why on earth would NJ give away the young corner stone of the Franchise in Harris for what amounts to a good player and cap space....when NJ already has enough cap space in the free agent year of 2010 to go after a big name (about 35 mil under the cap) and that's with Vince Carter's 17mil on the books!!! So to put it quite bluntly....there is no way in hell NJ would trade away Harris for cap space they don't need when they have Carter whom they would trade first.....wow...sometimes people only use the trade checker just to see if the contracts match, but never even stop to think about if it's something a team would to make it better.....obviously this was an off the wall pipe-dream trade that was only intended to benefit a dillusional Portland fan.

I'm not ranting as NJ fan (I'm a T-Wolves fan...:sigh: ) I'm just tired of people coming up with trade ideas that aren't even remotely in the realm of a decent trade....ugh....why bother...:dunno:
 
NattaNerNuttaMan said:
What are you smoking? Why on earth would NJ give away the young corner stone of the Franchise in Harris for what amounts to a good player and cap space....when NJ already has enough cap space in the free agent year of 2010 to go after a big name (about 35 mil under the cap) and that's with Vince Carter's 17mil on the books!!! So to put it quite bluntly....there is no way in hell NJ would trade away Harris for cap space they don't need when they have Carter whom they would trade first.....wow...sometimes people only use the trade checker just to see if the contracts match, but never even stop to think about if it's something a team would to make it better.....obviously this was an off the wall pipe-dream trade that was only intended to benefit a dillusional Portland fan.

I'm not ranting as NJ fan (I'm a T-Wolves fan...:sigh: ) I'm just tired of people coming up with trade ideas that aren't even remotely in the realm of a decent trade....ugh....why bother...:dunno:
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well how about this one then.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...77&teams=19~5~28~5~19~28~5~22~22~22&te=&cash=
 
How about NOTHING??? Jesus, the Blazers are firing on all cylinders, the Future is NOW, and you people still want to make blockbuster trades? INSANE IN THE MEMBRAINE!!!!!!!!!
 
Seriously, why?

How bout no more random trade ideas for like a week?
 
yeah, we're firing on all cylinders, all right.

I counted 3 losses in the last 10 games, and a win against SAC that we should have lost. We lost ground to the L*kers. Perhaps you're content with "making the playoffs as a 7 seed", but I am (and I'm pretty sure KP and the team are) not. KP has always said he'll look to make the team better any way he can.

Blockbuster? Maybe not. But since there's a limited time when we can make a blockbuster, and KP's only been planning for this time for 18 months, maybe there's something to it that you're not seeing.
 
*cough* nice covert plot to get nets fans to post in this forum *cough*
 
Harris is playing like a superstar there is no way in holy hell the Nets are trading Harris unless we included Greg Oden and Brandon Roy.
 
BrianFromWA said:
yeah, we're firing on all cylinders, all right.

I counted 3 losses in the last 10 games, and a win against SAC that we should have lost. We lost ground to the L*kers. Perhaps you're content with "making the playoffs as a 7 seed", but I am (and I'm pretty sure KP and the team are) not. KP has always said he'll look to make the team better any way he can.

Blockbuster? Maybe not. But since there's a limited time when we can make a blockbuster, and KP's only been planning for this time for 18 months, maybe there's something to it that you're not seeing.
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Man, are you EVER happy??? I mean, besides going 82-0 PLUS sweeping every series in the playoffs that is.

In the predictions thread, you had the team at something like 9-9 after the first 18 games and they're well ahead of schedule (and exceeding most everybody's expectations . . . except your now revised prediction/expectations).

It's OK to enjoy the team's success sometimes.
 
Nope. I had us at 13-5. Haven't revised it once, and kind of take it as an insult that you drop the "now revised prediction" thing when what I've been saying all along is being borne out. I guess I can't win for losing.

I'm quite happy when the team's playing well, even if we're not getting wins. I'm not of the opinion that we're the favorites to win with the team as currently constructed this year. I'm not of the opinion that it's wise to just sit on your youth and let valuable pieces walk for nothing. I'm not of the opinion that we're firing on all cylinders...but then I'm called alternately a "homer", a "Hater", and a "basher".

Is it because I'm not sycophantically agreeing in jubilation that we've "arrived?" that
THE FUTURE IS NOW
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and that anyone who has the audacity to disagree (maybe b/c, like, we got crushed by the L*kers, we're heading for a minutes crunch, and we have potentially 5 "expiring contract"-type contracts. Oh yeah, and our starting PG is universally acknowledged to be a great backup going forward--not a great starter on a championship team.) is
INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE
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Why do I have to be unhappy to disagree that we don't need to trade anyone?

I think this team should win 58. I think this team should've gone 13-5. I think this team has played better overall than it has in 7 years. I don't think we're the mid-90's Bulls by any stretch of the imagination. And if we're not 82-0, then by definition there's room for improvement, right?
 
Brian,

My bad - I read (from your prediction post): "I'm much more in the 10-8 club than the 6-12 club. But if we're .500 after 18 games, watch out league." and took that to mean you were predicting 9-9 . . . I didn't see your 13-5 prediction below. No insult was intended; merely bad reading skills on my part.

Look, before I started posting a lot more, I lurked and read a lot and always did enjoy your posts. But come to find out, posting "against" (for a lack of a better word) you is like beating my head against a wall sometimes so we'll just have to agree to disagree on these points.

You're expecting 58 wins and a WCF appearance/win? To me, that's great but that's just setting yourself up for a whole lot of anxiety and frustration given this young team. I expect them to make the playoffs and just gain the experience from it because I feel that's a more realistic expectation. If they do BETTER than that, that's awesome and I'll be ectastic.

Other things like hanging onto the notion that the SACTO game (and even the Spurs game) should've been a loss just doesn't fly because EVERY team gets good breaks and bad ones throughout the year. NOTHING says that Finley and what's his name on the Kings were guaranteed to make the shot. Just because they had a look, it doesn't mean it's a given that they make the shot - no matter how open, no matter how point-blank it was! They didn't make the shot and their team lost - and that's how it goes down in the record books.

Somewhere down the line this season, a team will make a miracle shot (a la Roy v. Houston) AGAINST us that they have no right making to win the game, unfortunately, that STILL goes down as a loss for us no matter how much we all bitch about it the following morning! And what of the GSW game? I was AT that game and I saw Rudy GET fouled, not fouling the Warrior player - but you know what, still a loss for us no matter what I say from here to eternity. So we can't say we shouldn't have won the Spurs or Kings game - because thems is the breaks and it more or less evens out over time.

Anyways, here's to 58 wins. I'm not holding my breath for it but will join you in jumping for joy if/when it happens.

As for the trades notions - I said it in DPC's other trade idea thread . . . I'm just going to ignore all new ones from here on out to save myself the aggrevation.
 
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In order to lure LeBron, the nets will

a) have ownership LeBron likes
b) have $ under the cap to make him an offer
c) have some semblence of a team Bron might want to join

Without their PG, they don't have the third critical piece.

The only way they trade Harris, is if they get a player who is just as talented and young.

We don't want to make any trades for equal talent, we want to use our expiring contracts/youth/draft picks to get a young star player without giving up equal basketball talent.

We're searching for a desperate team. Washington, are you there?

So, if you want to make a random trade idea, include someone like Caron Butler.
 
chris_in_pdx said:
How about NOTHING??? Jesus, the Blazers are firing on all cylinders, the Future is NOW, and you people still want to make blockbuster trades? INSANE IN THE MEMBRAINE!!!!!!!!!
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Do you really think that this team is SO unique that we, as the second-youngest team in the NBA, will challenge for an NBA title this year?

Do you really think that this team will be so lucky and SO well-constructed that, perhaps for the first time in modern NBA basketball, it will grow into a contender without making any additional player acquisitions or trades?

I don't understand why some fans are so adamant that, since the team is doing well, we should not look to improve.

On the original trade idea: hah. :)

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
Do you really think that this team is SO unique that we, as the second-youngest team in the NBA, will challenge for an NBA title this year?
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I do. What makes you think that they won't? Because of inexperience? If this was a factor, they wouldn't have started off the year the way they have. They wouldn't have found ways to win games that most believe they shouldn't. They wouldn't be winning on the road. This team is young, but they're damn good.

Do you really think that this team will be so lucky and SO well-constructed that, perhaps for the first time in modern NBA basketball, it will grow into a contender without making any additional player acquisitions or trades?
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This team is different than others of the past. We were fortunate to draft very very good players that fit within the coach's system and have different skill sets. Other teams haven't had that luxury or the wherewithal to manage this way. This is why Portland may not have to make a big deal to get over the hump. They may already have all the necessary pieces now. It just took time for those pieces to gain the required experience to compete against the league's best.
 
Crimson the Cat said:
I do. What makes you think that they won't? Because of inexperience? If this was a factor, they wouldn't have started off the year the way they have. They wouldn't have found ways to win games that most believe they shouldn't. They wouldn't be winning on the road. This team is young, but they're damn good.



This team is different than others of the past. We were fortunate to draft very very good players that fit within the coach's system and have different skill sets. Other teams haven't had that luxury or the wherewithal to manage this way. This is why Portland may not have to make a big deal to get over the hump. They may already have all the necessary pieces now. It just took time for those pieces to gain the required experience to compete against the league's best.
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crimson didnt you just suggest moving serg toward heinrich in the other thread???
 
Crimson the Cat said:
I do. What makes you think that they won't? Because of inexperience? If this was a factor, they wouldn't have started off the year the way they have. They wouldn't have found ways to win games that most believe they shouldn't. They wouldn't be winning on the road. This team is young, but they're damn good.
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Uh... I don't think that early season success indicates that a team is going to be a championship contender. Sorry.

Historically, young teams almost never challenge for championships. They just don't. A young team getting off to a start like the Blazers have is much more common.

This team is different than others of the past. We were fortunate to draft very very good players that fit within the coach's system and have different skill sets. Other teams haven't had that luxury or the wherewithal to manage this way. This is why Portland may not have to make a big deal to get over the hump. They may already have all the necessary pieces now. It just took time for those pieces to gain the required experience to compete against the league's best.
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You think that this team is unique in the history of modern NBA, and will succeed where innumerable other teams have failed.

I can't argue against that... and I hope you're right, of course.

I just seriously doubt that you are.

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
Do you really think that this team is SO unique that we, as the second-youngest team in the NBA, will challenge for an NBA title this year?

Do you really think that this team will be so lucky and SO well-constructed that, perhaps for the first time in modern NBA basketball, it will grow into a contender without making any additional player acquisitions or trades?

I don't understand why some fans are so adamant that, since the team is doing well, we should not look to improve.

On the original trade idea: hah. :)

Ed O.
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I think this is a real interesting point. I have said in recent past, "let's not trade anyone". I don't know about the others who have stated so much, but what I really meant was that I hope that KP still continues to scour the NBA for a substantial upgrade at one or more of our positions, but I just don't believe that we will find that upgrade, especially at PG, which is where we need the upgrade most. I don't think that it is worth risking personallity clashes or upset the chemistry to make a slight upgrade, so that leaves only big upgrades.

At the PG position there are not many upgrades possible. Parker, Paul, Harris, Billups, Calderon, D Williams are all big upgrades, but all are near impossible to trade for without giving up either Oden, Aldridge or Roy, and some may be off limits no matter who we offer.

Other possible upgrades all seem to have major problems, Bibby, Nash, Kidd and Terry are all on the down side of their career. Rondo, Robinson, Rose, Hill, Davis, Farmar and others all are either slight upgrades at best, or they have big flaws in their game, or are unobtainable, young, or some other issue.

If there is some way to get an elite PG, we of course need to do it. But, I don't see it being worth it to trade just to trade, or even to trade for a slight upgrade given that there are always unknowns when bringing in a new player.

I am not totally against making a trade, I am just against making a lateral trade or even one that is just a small upgrade. I think so much of the success of this team right now is that everyone seems to be buying into the system and are good hard workers. Any trade will put that at risk. Any trade that gets rid of our youth (most of the team) also risks us losing out in the trade even if we are slightly better now. So, when I say, let's not trade, I mean, let's not make any trades that seem obvious, because those trades suck. let's not make trades that don't give us a substantial boost. I may say, no trades, but if Bron became available, there is no Blazer I would not use to make that trade happen.
 
yenniedn said:
crimson didnt you just suggest moving serg toward heinrich in the other thread???
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I did. While I really like what we have and would be completely content in going the distance this year with this group, I do believe there are ways for this team to improve through trades. But I'm more for minor tweaks or bringing in more young, developing talent than jaw dropping blockbuster deals at this point. I don't want to bring in anyone that's going to take minutes away from Greg, Joel, Lamarcus, Nic, Brandon, and Rudy. An argument could be made for an upgrade at the reserve PF, reserve SF, starting PG, or reserve PG spot. I'm down with that as long as it's not going rock the boat.

Again, I'm real happy with the team we have. I understand though that when an advantageous deal presents itself, management may have to pounce. If I had to point to our weakest link, the reserve PG or PF spots are places where we can improve.

Just because I feel the team can win it all this year, doesn't mean we should always be looking for ways to improve.
 
yenniedn said:
Brian,

My bad - I read (from your prediction post): "I'm much more in the 10-8 club than the 6-12 club. But if we're .500 after 18 games, watch out league." and took that to mean you were predicting 9-9 . . . I didn't see your 13-5 prediction below. No insult was intended; merely bad reading skills on my part.

Look, before I started posting a lot more, I lurked and read a lot and always did enjoy your posts. But come to find out, posting "against" (for a lack of a better word) you is like beating my head against a wall sometimes so we'll just have to agree to disagree on these points.

You're expecting 58 wins and a WCF appearance/win? To me, that's great but that's just setting yourself up for a whole lot of anxiety and frustration given this young team. I expect them to make the playoffs and just gain the experience from it because I feel that's a more realistic expectation. If they do BETTER than that, that's awesome and I'll be ectastic.

Other things like hanging onto the notion that the SACTO game (and even the Spurs game) should've been a loss just doesn't fly because EVERY team gets good breaks and bad ones throughout the year. NOTHING says that Finley and what's his name on the Kings were guaranteed to make the shot. Just because they had a look, it doesn't mean it's a given that they make the shot - no matter how open, no matter how point-blank it was! They didn't make the shot and their team lost - and that's how it goes down in the record books.

Somewhere down the line this season, a team will make a miracle shot (a la Roy v. Houston) AGAINST us that they have no right making to win the game, unfortunately, that STILL goes down as a loss for us no matter how much we all bitch about it the following morning! And what of the GSW game? I was AT that game and I saw Rudy GET fouled, not fouling the Warrior player - but you know what, still a loss for us no matter what I say from here to eternity. So we can't say we shouldn't have won the Spurs or Kings game - because thems is the breaks and it more or less evens out over time.

Anyways, here's to 58 wins. I'm not holding my breath for it but will join you in jumping for joy if/when it happens.

As for the trades notions - I said it in DPC's other trade idea thread . . . I'm just going to ignore all new ones from here on out to save myself the aggrevation.
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No worries. Good discussion. And I don't have problems "agreeing to disagree". I dofeel that I have a valid, though minority, viewpoint on a lot of the topics on here and generally like to contribute towards getting away from groupthink. Not to say that everyone who disagrees with me is dumb or wrong or not a fan.

I've said a few different places on here that the game result at the end of the night isn't the end-all-be-all of my fandom. If we had played well against the Pistons and just ran into a buzzsaw, I wouldn't be unconsolable. In fact, I think I've been pretty good about pointing out both positive and negative observations I see from the game--win or lose. I keep bringing up the Kings and Spurs (and to a lesser extent, Houston), b/c we played those games poorly. Certain players played poorly in those games, or were exposed for something, and I was just pointing that out. For the GSW game, I didn't make too much of a stink about it b/c it was mostly on the refs. I think (iirc) I called LMA out some for not being able to deal with Maggette, and for the team as a whole who kept shooting bricks from 3, but I had much more to say about the Kings game, and anyone who says we played well b/c we won. It's just observation and discussion for me when I come on after games, not really results. Anyone can say "We won, we rule" or "you lost, you suck". I try to get a little deeper than that.

I admit that I'm by nature a problem-solver, and the Trade Machine puzzles to me are fun, even if I think most aren't realistic (for myriad reasons). I totally understand if they don't float your (or anyone else's) boat, and am not offended if you ignore threads like that.

My predictions came from watching the team the last couple of years, and seeing some of the good things I was seeing in preseason. I know it's not popular, but I really think this team can at least perform to the level of the Hornets last year. That's not because I have money riding on 58 wins in Vegas, or I took the 30-to-1 odds...it's b/c, based on my own personal observations of the last 20 years I've watched/played/coached basketball, I think our team is really, really good. And I think people are starting to come around (2 months later than me) that we're a really talented team that should be playing well almost every night.
 
Ed O said:
Uh... I don't think that early season success indicates that a team is going to be a championship contender. Sorry.
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It is an indicator though, right. If you were to say, before the season, what Portland would need to do in order to convince you that they were ready to compete for a championship, would you say the following:

- Win against the perceived top-tier teams in the league
- Pummel inferior teams
- Weather adversity
- Need to have superstar play from at least one starter
- Have one of the best half-court offenses in the league
- Win your division
- Play excellent team defense
- Don't let teams get back into the game
- Be well coached
- Have a deep bench
- Win at home
- Win on the road

We're more than 20% done with the season. They're not just winning but winning convincingly, even on the road. They're doing all of the above things that NBA champions do. This team is for real IMO.

Historically, young teams almost never challenge for championships. They just don't. A young team getting off to a start like the Blazers have is much more common.
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The Dodgers were a young team. Yes, Manny was having an unbelievable year and Lowe was their ace (both vets), but no one was giving them a lot respect heading into the Playoffs. The rest of their roster was filled with inexperienced, yet very talented, young ball players. They were contenders.

Portland doesn't have the equivalent to a ManRam in this scenario, so my argument isn't as strong as I was hoping, but still, the perception was, just as it is here, that the Dodgers were too young to compete.

A better example would have been the Devil Rays, but I'm a Dodger fan.

I know that there aren't many examples of young teams becoming contenders overnight, but then, there aren't many teams that have been assembled like this before. This team is unique in the history of today's NBA.

Here's what Pritchard and company have compiled through the draft (seems silly to list this as you're already well aware)

- Brandon Roy (Superstar shooting guard)
- Greg Oden (Already a top-10 center and showing improvement every week)
- LaMarcus Aldridge (fringe All-Star PF that's also becoming one of the best defending PF in the league IMO)
- Nic Batum (one of the leagues best perimeter defending SFs)
- Rudy Fernandez (one of the league's top long ball shooters)
- Sergio Rodriguez (one of the league's top playmakers)
- On top of this, adding in the sure hands of Steve and the defensive skills of Joel

What other NBA team has been able to compile these levels of NBA talent, all with different, yet complimenting skill sets. KP doesn't do redundant. He's listened to what Nate's needed and methodically brought players in that can make the team stronger.

What no one expected, even KP, was that it would all come together this fast.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I counted 3 losses in the last 10 games, and a win against SAC that we should have lost.
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yenniedn said:
Other things like hanging onto the notion that the SACTO game (and even the Spurs game) should've been a loss just doesn't fly because EVERY team gets good breaks and bad ones throughout the year. NOTHING says that Finley and what's his name on the Kings were guaranteed to make the shot. Just because they had a look, it doesn't mean it's a given that they make the shot - no matter how open, no matter how point-blank it was! They didn't make the shot and their team lost - and that's how it goes down in the record books.

Somewhere down the line this season, a team will make a miracle shot (a la Roy v. Houston) AGAINST us that they have no right making to win the game, unfortunately, that STILL goes down as a loss for us no matter how much we all bitch about it the following morning! And what of the GSW game? I was AT that game and I saw Rudy GET fouled, not fouling the Warrior player - but you know what, still a loss for us no matter what I say from here to eternity. So we can't say we shouldn't have won the Spurs or Kings game - because thems is the breaks and it more or less evens out over time.
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I'm going to borrow one from Brian's playbook and consider this loss against Orlando tonight a "WIN" for the rest of the season . . . Hedo had no business making that shot!!! ;)
 
LOL good call, Yennie.

Honestly, if you notice, I'm not spewing a ton of "hate" tonight. We played pretty well against a team that was hot from deep. We had single-digit turnovers, and out-rebounded the other team. Our defense wasn't good, but it was a team effort. I'm a little confused about the 1-2-2 zone. I'm also confused about the last 2 minutes.

If I HAD to say who didn't play well, it'd be 1) Oden, 2) Blake, 3) Travis, 4) Batum. Batum was a little more involved in the offense than he has been, but keeps getting tick-tack fouls and doesn't get much burn. Travis's defense was not good--to the point that Homer Rice was calling him out for not staying with his assignment (hm...haven't I said that before? COUGH--Mike Miller and McGrady). Taking a 3 with time left on the shot clock up 5 with a minute to go isn't good either. Blake shouldn't have been on the floor at the end--no fault of his own. But he shouldn't be jacking 3's, and he shouldn't be attempting one-on-two drives, and he should understand that if Roy's being held, he can pass to someone else instead of burning his last timeout. Oden's been discussed...he was active on the boards, but got gypped by having a couple of quick fouls called on him and not on the other end. That's how the game goes, though.
 
=) OK, I'll let this loss go if we can agree to let go of the would-be losses in Sacto, San Antonio and Houston??? ;)
 
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