Trade Idea How do we get Jimmy Butler

[Denny Crane]

Butler is nba all-defense 2nd team, 3 years in a row. His man to man defense is elite.

He guards LeBron.

DBPM is meaningless. If he's on the court with 4 awful defenders, his DBPM would be hugely negative.

 

[BonesJones]

Butler is nba all-defense 2nd team, 3 years in a row. His man to man defense is elite.

He guards LeBron.

DBPM is meaningless. If he's on the court with 4 awful defenders, his DBPM would be hugely negative.

He been on the floor Rondo, Wade, Gibson, and Lopez, which are all good, or solid defenders.

 

[Sarni]

He been on the floor Rondo, Wade, Gibson, and Lopez, which are all good, or solid defenders.

Rondo has not been on the floor that much, has he? Carter-Williams is a decent defender too, though.

 

[noknobs]

People also think DMC is a great defender. People also thought McMuffin was a good defensive coach. People also think Tater Totts is an offensive genius. People also think a border wall will improve national security. Facts mean nothing - if you say anything enough times it becomes an alternative fact.

You don't consistently get voted as one of the top 10 defensive players in the NBA if you're not good. That's actually a fact, not an alternative fact. Cousins has never been on an all-defense team.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

For all this talk about Butler being a great defender, his DBPM has been continuously under 0.5 for years. So basically, average.

Why do people think he's such a great defender? I don't really understand.

Nicola Vucevic's DBPM this year is 2.4. His career average DBPM is 1.1. Greg Monroe's career average is 0.9. Avery Bradley is a career -0.5.

I don't think DBPM is necessarily a reliable indicator of an individual's defensive prowess.

 

[Denny Crane]

He been on the floor Rondo, Wade, Gibson, and Lopez, which are all good, or solid defenders.

The team is top 1/3 on defense. 10th.

Again, he's been 2nd team all nba defense 3 straight years.

 

[blue9]

You don't consistently get voted as one of the top 10 defensive players in the NBA if you're not good. That's actually a fact, not an alternative fact. Cousins has never been on an all-defense team.

I wasn't actually saying Butler's not a good defender - just showing that people often believe things that aren't true due to repetition of falsehoods. I suspect that not many of us have watched Butler enough to have a well informed opinion on just how good he is, and are therefore relying on his reputation (which may or may not be undeserved) to guide our opinions/beliefs. But I agree that All Defense is usually a decent metric.

 

[Denny Crane]

Butler may well be in the talk for MVP and DPOY.

At least he would be if the team were winning and not subject to the dysfunctional organization ego problems.

 

[Minstrel]

Butler is a very good defender, but even on a successful team he wouldn't be in DPOY talk. He's not that good. He's not on the level of Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green and Kawhai Leonard.

 

[chzbrgr]

Butler is a very good defender, but even on a successful team he wouldn't be in DPOY talk. He's not that good. He's not on the level of Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green and Kawhai Leonard.

Sure he would, winning puts you in all sorts of discussions. He would especially be considered if he came here and all but single handedly turned around the teams entire defense and made us respectable. (which he would do IMO).

 

[Denny Crane]

“I love going against Jimmy,” LeBron to reporters after a win in Game 5. “I think it brings out the best in myself. And I try to reciprocate back to him.”
-- LeBron James

 

[Minstrel]

Sure he would, winning puts you in all sorts of discussions.

Not when there are significantly better defenders who are also on winning teams.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not when there are significantly better defenders who are also on winning teams.

Au contraire, mon frere.

 

[riverman]

Jimmy Butler is an elite defender...he's the real deal...any team would love to have him start for them...I'd love to have him in Portland

 

[chzbrgr]

Not when there are significantly better defenders who are also on winning teams.

Not saying he'd win but he'd be in the discussion. Players from Portland dont win awards, dont be silly

 

[GDiama]

The guy is 12th in PER, 3rd in WS. Lillard is 20th in PER, nowhere to be found in WS and CJ nowhere to be found in any elite category.

We also have this stat tracker:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi


What is the debate here?
Give Jimmy the keys.