How do you prefer we guard the pick n roll? (1 Viewer)

[BonesJones]

I think that we need to try to change up some of our defensive philosophies, just to see if something works better. Here's some options we could look at:

Pick n' Roll Coverage
SAGGING BIG MAN (ICE)- This is what we currently employ, with the big man sagging in the paint, and the guard forcing the ball-handler towards the big.


Pros - Takes away 3s, and is supposed to take away the rim while contesting mid-range jumpers.
Cons - Mid-Range shots have a tendency to be wide open, especially with shorter, less athletic big men. Gives ball handlers a lot of space to manipulate the defense (Which is what CP3 does to us so well.) This coverage ends up with a lot of switches.


HEDGE
This is what we employed a couple year ago. The big man cuts off the ball-handler, forcing him to slow down or change course allowing the guard to get back in front. Then, the big man runs back to his man, taking away the passing lane from the guard in the process. The helpside defense is ready to play the passing lane and cut off passes to the big as well.


Pros - Can completely shut down all pick n roll options when effective. Rarely results in switches and it stops penetration without open looks from 3.
Cons - Leaves a lot off space in the middle. If the ball-handler gets around the hedger without the defensive guard recovering, then theirs a clear lane to the basket.

DOUBLE (BLITZ)
Teams do this to Damian a lot. It forces the ball out of the playmakers hands and make other plays beat you. Designed to put pressure on the other team and get turnovers for easy buckets. This is basically like hedging the pick n roll but the big man stays on the ball to double. The other 3 defenders play in helpside in case the pass gets through. If the pass does get through, recover accordingly.

Pros - Can slow down other teams top players. Can result in turnovers and easy buckets against less-skilled players. If the team is already hedging, it can be random with the big just deciding to stay to double with the rest of the defense reacting accordingly.
Cons - Leaves the defense at a 3-on-4 disadvantage once the pass gets out of the double. Helpside has to account for the roll man.

SWITCHING
This is what we do when we put Harkless on Chris Paul and Aminu on Griffin. Simply switch defensive assignments, with the guy guarding the big taking the ball-handler, and the guy guarding the ball-handler taking the big.

Pros - Easiest way to stay in front and stop penetration and the roll man. Takes the least amount of effort.
Cons - Only advisable in very specific situations. Can lead to bad mismatches which almost always lead to easy scores if done at the wrong times.



I believe we need to employ all 4 of these teams according to the opposing teams personnel and the game situation. I like hedging on Chris Paul, while employing a sagging big man and the guard going under the screen on Westbrook. I would likely double Harden, and switch up coverage for other players to keep them off-balance and uncomfortable not knowing what to expect. If down in a game, I would like to double more, hopefully forcing turnovers to quick scores to get us back in the game.

What do you guys think? How would you prefer we guard the pick n roll?

 

[Blazer4ever]

I think sagging is a bad philosophy, if you're going backwards you're not playing good defense. I think the big man needs to go out on the guard aggressively and interrupt his passing lane to the rolling screener and I think we need to switch, Dame (for example) guarding a big isn't ideal but if our big does a good job of interrupting the passing lane there's enough time for the defense to adjust

 

[BonesJones]

I think sagging is a bad philosophy, if you're going backwards you're not playing good defense. I think the big man needs to go out on the guard aggressively and interrupt his passing lane to the rolling screener and I think we need to switch, Dame (for example) guarding a big isn't ideal but if our big does a good job of interrupting the passing lane there's enough time for the defense to adjust

What you're describing is a hedge not a switch. I think we need to do more of that.

 

[Sinobas]

I think sagging is a bad philosophy, if you're going backwards you're not playing good defense. I think the big man needs to go out on the guard aggressively and interrupt his passing lane to the rolling screener and I think we need to switch, Dame (for example) guarding a big isn't ideal but if our big does a good job of interrupting the passing lane there's enough time for the defense to adjust

I thought they employed the sagging technique specifically for Robin Lopez, who was relatively slow footed but a very good rim protector. But that doesn't suite Mason Plumlee.

 

[Blazer4ever]

I thought they employed the sagging technique specifically for Robin Lopez, who was relatively slow footed but a very good rim protector. But that doesn't suite Mason Plumlee.

Yes RoLo kinda did that as he was often guarding both the guard and the big after the screen. But we need to play team defense, we no longer have RoLo or Batum who are both super team defenders. We need to reach better cooperation and communication on defense

 

[Mediocre Man]

The key to pick and roll defense is to only have it be able to beat you one way. Because teams have different strengths, you can't play it one way for everyone. You always want to make the offense make decisions they aren't used to making. Playing Portland, for example, you'd want someone like Plumlee or Aminu to be making decisions low, because that's not what they normally do. Basically destroying the foundation of the offense. My teams used to blitz and zone up. I don't think any other strategy is worth teaching. Blitzing is great for a team like Portland, with long wings and mobile bigs. Basically trapping, making the offense make decisions out of their fundamental offense. Blitzing gives up mid paint shots. Second best shot you want a team taking, and and rushed elbow 3s. Zone pick and roll defense only gives up a mid range jump shot, which is the best shot to give up in basketball. Taking your big and having him play zone at the elbow.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I'm not a basketball expert at all, never having had a coach even when I was playing. But it does seem we are very predictable. and passive. And we don't ever seem to anticipate what is about to happen next. This could be a result of the system, which seems very rigid, actually designed to relieve the players from making decisions, which to me means they stop thinking and anticipating .

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Id be happy if we just played defense at all

 

[Kaydow]

You've got to vary pick and roll coverages to be effectively disruptive. But it doesn't matter whether you hedge, show, blitz, switch, etc. if you don't have the horses. I was hoping Ezili would make our pick and roll defense more dynamic. He's Athletic enough to defend perimeter, but can also protect the rim when healthy. Our other bigs aren't shot blockers and struggle on the perimeter, and our perimeter defenders (for the most part) aren't physical enough to fight through screens consistently. Not a good combo.

I think it would be a lot better with a rim protector. How many times in the last few years in games vs Clips has DJ swatted a Dame or CJ shot at/near the rim when he's trailing the play? The play works, we get the switch we want, Dame blows by him to the rack . . . then SWAT. A rim protector covers a multitude of sins defensively.

 

[TBpup]

I'm not a basketball expert at all, never having had a coach even when I was playing. But it does seem we are very predictable. and passive. And we don't ever seem to anticipate what is about to happen next. This could be a result of the system, which seems very rigid, actually designed to relieve the players from making decisions, which to me means they stop thinking and anticipating .

You may not feel you are an expert but you have very deftly described what Portland does. The defense KNOWS what is coming so it is much easier to game plan for. Also, that identity is extremely passive instead of being aggressive which to me sets a poor tone for the defense as a whole.

Sadly, we have to accept that Stotts is an offensive coach and not a defensive oriented one. He is also a players coach who no one would consider tough like Pops or Thibs. He is quite good at perimeter offense but I don't see him developing anything inside of 20' over the years and the defense (outside of a couple of good individual players) has almost always been poor.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think that we need to try to change up some of our defensive philosophies, just to see if something works better. Here's some options we could look at:

Pick n' Roll Coverage
SAGGING BIG MAN (ICE)- This is what we currently employ, with the big man sagging in the paint, and the guard forcing the ball-handler towards the big.

View attachment 10926
Pros - Takes away 3s, and is supposed to take away the rim while contesting mid-range jumpers.
Cons - Mid-Range shots have a tendency to be wide open, especially with shorter, less athletic big men. Gives ball handlers a lot of space to manipulate the defense (Which is what CP3 does to us so well.) This coverage ends up with a lot of switches.


HEDGE
This is what we employed a couple year ago. The big man cuts off the ball-handler, forcing him to slow down or change course allowing the guard to get back in front. Then, the big man runs back to his man, taking away the passing lane from the guard in the process. The helpside defense is ready to play the passing lane and cut off passes to the big as well.
View attachment 10927

Pros - Can completely shut down all pick n roll options when effective. Rarely results in switches and it stops penetration without open looks from 3.
Cons - Leaves a lot off space in the middle. If the ball-handler gets around the hedger without the defensive guard recovering, then theirs a clear lane to the basket.

DOUBLE (BLITZ)
Teams do this to Damian a lot. It forces the ball out of the playmakers hands and make other plays beat you. Designed to put pressure on the other team and get turnovers for easy buckets. This is basically like hedging the pick n roll but the big man stays on the ball to double. The other 3 defenders play in helpside in case the pass gets through. If the pass does get through, recover accordingly.

Pros - Can slow down other teams top players. Can result in turnovers and easy buckets against less-skilled players. If the team is already hedging, it can be random with the big just deciding to stay to double with the rest of the defense reacting accordingly.
Cons - Leaves the defense at a 3-on-4 disadvantage once the pass gets out of the double. Helpside has to account for the roll man.

SWITCHING
This is what we do when we put Harkless on Chris Paul and Aminu on Griffin. Simply switch defensive assignments, with the guy guarding the big taking the ball-handler, and the guy guarding the ball-handler taking the big.

Pros - Easiest way to stay in front and stop penetration and the roll man. Takes the least amount of effort.
Cons - Only advisable in very specific situations. Can lead to bad mismatches which almost always lead to easy scores if done at the wrong times.



I believe we need to employ all 4 of these teams according to the opposing teams personnel and the game situation. I like hedging on Chris Paul, while employing a sagging big man and the guard going under the screen on Westbrook. I would likely double Harden, and switch up coverage for other players to keep them off-balance and uncomfortable not knowing what to expect. If down in a game, I would like to double more, hopefully forcing turnovers to quick scores to get us back in the game.

What do you guys think? How would you prefer we guard the pick n roll?

I'm posting this on Blazers Edge!

 

[riverman]

We foul too much...then sag because of foul trouble ....especially our bigger defenders like Mason...that doesn't help the defense...even our guards foul too much...how many times do we score and immediately send the first guy to touch the ball to the free throw line stopping chances at making a run? CJ and Mo do that quite a bit. After they score...they give up freebies erasing their buckets

 

[BonesJones]

Blitzing gives up mid paint shots. Second best shot you want a team taking, and and rushed elbow 3s. Zone pick and roll defense only gives up a mid range jump shot, which is the best shot to give up in basketball. Taking your big and having him play zone at the elbow.

Blitzing gives up mid paint shots but the help should have time to rotate to contest or steal the pass, of it even gets out of the trap in the first place.

I just hate giving up mid range shots to guys who prefer shooting them. They know they'll have that shot before the pick n roll even takes place, which means they are very comfortable against our defense.

 

[jlprk]

Sadly, we have to accept that Stotts is an offensive coach and not a defensive oriented one.

The radical Stotts offense sucks, too. Every time a Blazer takes the ball near the hoop and meets minimum opposition (like, seeing his shadow), he makes a wild pass back out to 25 feet so that someone can take a random 3-point shot.

Back when men were men, drooling from the terror of being called sissies, players were belittled if they had the ball near the hoop and didn't push through the opposition to at least try to get a foul called. I'm starting a GoFundYourself campaign to hire Byron Scott, at least as our offensive coach. Are we men, or are we mice?

 

[WillG]

Vonleh, with his long arms and defensive instincts would be particularly good at hedging.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

With new players around Dame.

 

[H.C.]

Depends on the team your facing. & the situation.
I saw on the last two games of the road trip Portland trying to change their defensive philosophy.
Communication defensively is off. It has been all year.
Have to hope Aminu can help with this. We'll see.

 

[blue9]

Our defense (and all defenses) should be built primarily on the hedge. With that said, you can't throw the same defense out every time down the floor (like we do with our shitty defense right now). You gotta be able to implement all the various P/R coverages, but the hedge should be used the majority of the time.

 

[riverman]

I'm starting a GoFundYourself campaign to hire Byron Scott

Clearly a sleep deprived post

 

[BonesJones]

So turns out the big men went to Stotts and asked if they could start blitzing pick n rolls in certain situations, which is something I've been calling for for the past couple years.

When they did so, they were very effective. Would love to see more.

 

[tester551]

So turns out the big men went to Stotts and asked if they could start blitzing pick n rolls in certain situations, which is something I've been calling for for the past couple years.

When they did so, they were very effective. Would love to see more.

Where did you see this reported?

 

[BonesJones]

Where did you see this reported?

The post-game show.

 

[HailBlazers]

So turns out the big men went to Stotts and asked if they could start blitzing pick n rolls in certain situations, which is something I've been calling for for the past couple years.

When they did so, they were very effective. Would love to see more.

Neil, get this man a job.

 

[blue9]

Kinda sad the players know better than the coach...

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Kinda sad the players know better than the coach...

but it's good that he listens.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Blitzing is what I coach.

 

[Trackjack]

You have to change thing up on D during the game. Giving different looks makes the offense to react instead knowing this what we going to do because they only play this type of D. Guards knowing there a screen instead automatic running into the screen force that player father out away from the screen. Every player that was taught right knows how to step around a screen something you learn in high school.

 

[chzbrgr]

So turns out the big men went to Stotts and asked if they could start blitzing pick n rolls in certain situations, which is something I've been calling for for the past couple years.

When they did so, they were very effective. Would love to see more.

It was great to watch cause our bigs are active and athletic perfect to play the blitz. I couldnt agree more that we need more blitzing from the bigs it was my biggest takeaway from the chicago game.

We should see some blitzing on Giannis tonight to make him a shooter rather than a playmaker.

 

[BonesJones]

It was great to watch cause our bigs are active and athletic perfect to play the blitz. I couldnt agree more that we need more blitzing from the bigs it was my biggest takeaway from the chicago game.

We should see some blitzing on Giannis tonight to make him a shooter rather than a playmaker.

Honestly whoever's gaurding him better go under the screen every single time.

Problem with Gianni's is that he's so tall I'm he'll just be able to pinpoint passes over-the-top when blitzed, which could lead to some very easy buckets. I suggest hedging the big with the guard going under.

 

[chzbrgr]

Honestly whoever's gaurding him better go under the screen every single time.

Problem with Gianni's is that he's so tall I'm he'll just be able to pinpoint passes over-the-top when blitzed, which could lead to some very easy buckets. I suggest hedging the big with the guard going under.

We'll see tonight I think if he tries to throw passes over plums and davis tonight it might lead to deflections and turnovers. Thats why they play the games. I think without question tho you gotta make Giannis beat you with his jumper.