How great is Tiger Woods?

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cpawfan

cpawfan

Monsters do exist
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I love sports history and am struck by how amazing Tiger Woods has been from a historical perspective. It seems like he is going to completely rewrite the record books by the time his career is over and our grandchildren will be asking us what it was like to be able to watch him.

How great of a golfer is Tiger Woods? Do we even have a grasp of what we are witnessing?
 
Most dominant athlete in all sports combined. Simply amazing.
 
He's the greatest and most dominant athlete in an individual sport in history.

He's also better at golf than anyone I can name is at anything.

If you've never played golf, you have no idea how hard it is or how impossible it is to do what Tiger is doing.

Usually, when someone dominates on this level (Mikan, Wilt, Schumacher) they start changing the rules to even the playing field. No matter what anyone has done, it's only made Tiger more dominant. He's incredible.
 
Jordan, Gretzky, Bill Russell, Lance Armstrong, Cassius Clay, Pele

Babe Ruth?? Jerry Rice ??
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Feb 25 2008, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jordan, Gretzky, Bill Russell, Lance Armstrong, Cassius Clay, Pele

Babe Ruth?? Jerry Rice ??</div>


None of them, besides Lance, dominated their sport like Tiger.

Tiger and Lance, IMO, are the two most dominant athletes to ever grace sports.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Feb 25 2008, 03:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Feb 25 2008, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jordan, Gretzky, Bill Russell, Lance Armstrong, Cassius Clay, Pele

Babe Ruth“ Jerry Rice “</div>


None of them, besides Lance, dominated their sport like Tiger.

Tiger and Lance, IMO, are the two most dominant athletes to ever grace sports.
</div>

Bill Russell was the champion 11 of 13 years. That is a nuts percentage of winning the championship. That is winning the championship 85% of the time you played.

He has been in the PGA for 11 years, going on 12. There are 4 majors per year. Golfers of top calibre always try to play the majors.

So at this point he has won 13 majors of 44 possible ones, which is incredible for golf.

Another person to throw in is Roger Federer. He is 26, and has won 12 Grand Slams, the current record holder for most Grand Slam victories is Pete Sampras who has won 14.

Ricardo Lopez 51 wins - 1 draw - 0 losses
 
I completely forgot about Federer.

Just because Russell's got so many championships doesn't mean he was dominant. He's one of the G.O.A.T, but not the actual g.o.a.t
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Feb 25 2008, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I completely forgot about Lopez.

Just because Russell's got so many championships doesn't mean he was dominant. He's one of the G.O.A.T, but not the actual g.o.a.t</div>
Well in terms of domination, while he was on the Cs they dominated the championships for 11 of 13 years.

Also Federer seems to be doing to tennis what Tiger is doing to golf.
 
If you're gonna say Ricardo Lopez, might as well throw Rocky Marciano into the discussion.
 
The boxers and Federer are nowhere near Tiger's level. Beating one person at a time is not the same as beating a whole field of golfers.

Comparing Woods to Ricardo Lopez is silly and insulting.

I have trouble comparing him to team sports athletes, since their dominance relies at least in part on their teammates. If you pressed me, though, I would put him in the top three with Gretzky and Jordan. If I had to choose one, it would probably be Woods.

Lance Armstrong basically competed once a year, with teammates, and in a sport with a playing field that is more than questionable and definitely not level.

Tiger Woods in 2008 is at a level I don't think has ever been reached by any athlete. What he is doing is almost indescribable.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 25 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The boxers and Federer are nowhere near Tiger's level. Beating one person at a time is not the same as beating a whole field of golfers.</div>

So you are saying that Tiger's match play performance pales in comparison to his stroke play performance.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 25 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The boxers and Federer are nowhere near Tiger's level. Beating one person at a time is not the same as beating a whole field of golfers.

Comparing Woods to Ricardo Lopez is silly and insulting.

I have trouble comparing him to team sports athletes, since their dominance relies at least in part on their teammates. If you pressed me, though, I would put him in the top three with Gretzky and Jordan. If I had to choose one, it would probably be Woods.

Lance Armstrong basically competed once a year, with teammates, and in a sport with a playing field that is more than questionable and definitely not level.

Tiger Woods in 2008 is at a level I don't think has ever been reached by any athlete. What he is doing is almost indescribable.</div>

Tiger is definitely dominant, but his competition is not in the best physical shape (fatties!), which detracts from his accomplishments when compared to the NBA/NFL. Golf is hard, but not the hardest professional sport.

I also think people don't understand how hard it is to be a Quarterback in the NFL, so I am much more impressed by them (including QBs I detest). They have only a couple of seconds to make pin-point passes, if they had all the time in the world like Tiger you'd see them with monster seasons. Being the most dominant QB is not enough to win a championship in team sports either.

Same thing applies with Jordan.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 25 2008, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 25 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The boxers and Federer are nowhere near Tiger's level. Beating one person at a time is not the same as beating a whole field of golfers.</div>

So you are saying that Tiger's match play performance pales in comparison to his stroke play performance.

</div>

Definitely.

The advantage an opponent has in match play is that he only has to play at a higher level than Tiger for 18 holes. In that condensed time, Tiger might make some mistakes or have one disasterous hole and there's not enough time for him to make up the ground.

Tiger's advantage in match play is much larger. He only has to best one opponent. His opponent is never as good as he is. The odds are in his favor every time.

In stroke play, Tiger has to be better than an entire field of elite golfers. Maybe none of them are consistently on his level, but all of them are capable of playing as well as Tiger if they are playing their best. With so many opponents, the odds are good that some of them will do that.

Tiger's advantage is that the tournaments are four rounds long. It's difficult for any one opponent to play better than Tiger for that many rounds. Even if you outplay him three of the four days, he's good enough to crush you during the one round when you were off your game.

That's what makes Tiger incalcuably great. No matter what the format, no matter what the odds, no matter who the opponent is or how many of them there are, he is just plain good enough to win every time. To have that big an advantage over others that are the best in the world is almost impossible. He's accomplishing the impossible.
 
I didn't mean to say Lopez, I meant to type Federer...I changed that.
 
Tiger is the most dominant person in any sport. You can't even talk about golf today without mentioning Tiger at least once. He is even more synonymous with golf than Jordan is with basketball.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MagicFan12 @ Mar 10 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tiger is the most dominant person in any sport. You can't even talk about golf today without mentioning Tiger at least once. He is even more synonymous with golf than Jordan is with basketball.</div>

If more black people were synonymous with Golf, that wouldn't be the case. Golf is low on the totem poll of sports people want to join, Fox even had a recent report on it's declining interest. Jordan had more athletic freaks to deal with.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 11 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MagicFan12 @ Mar 10 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tiger is the most dominant person in any sport. You can't even talk about golf today without mentioning Tiger at least once. He is even more synonymous with golf than Jordan is with basketball.</div>

If more black people were synonymous with Golf, that wouldn't be the case. Golf is low on the totem poll of sports people want to join, Fox even had a recent report on it's declining interest. Jordan had more athletic freaks to deal with.
</div>

Many NBA and NFL players play golf and take it seriously. They can't touch the PGA pros. Athleticism has very little to do with it, although obviously coordination is a huge help.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 11 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 11 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MagicFan12 @ Mar 10 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tiger is the most dominant person in any sport. You can't even talk about golf today without mentioning Tiger at least once. He is even more synonymous with golf than Jordan is with basketball.</div>

If more black people were synonymous with Golf, that wouldn't be the case. Golf is low on the totem poll of sports people want to join, Fox even had a recent report on it's declining interest. Jordan had more athletic freaks to deal with.
</div>

Many NBA and NFL players play golf and take it seriously. They can't touch the PGA pros. Athleticism has very little to do with it, although obviously coordination is a huge help.
</div>

Could Tiger play in basketball or football? Don't a bunch of non-NBA/NFL players make it to the pros? Pointless to bring up, it doesn't prove anything other than Golf is a very one-dimensional and static sport since athleticism is neutralized to a large extent.

NFL/NBA people also can't dedicate all their time to Golf either. Even "unathletic" professional QBs have to get rid of the ball quickly and evade a pass rush.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 11 2008, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 11 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 11 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MagicFan12 @ Mar 10 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tiger is the most dominant person in any sport. You can't even talk about golf today without mentioning Tiger at least once. He is even more synonymous with golf than Jordan is with basketball.</div>

If more black people were synonymous with Golf, that wouldn't be the case. Golf is low on the totem poll of sports people want to join, Fox even had a recent report on it's declining interest. Jordan had more athletic freaks to deal with.
</div>

Many NBA and NFL players play golf and take it seriously. They can't touch the PGA pros. Athleticism has very little to do with it, although obviously coordination is a huge help.
</div>


They can't dedicate all their time to that sport either. Being athletic obviously helps Tiger, so it does matter. He started a trend in that sport of being in great physical shape.

People with the right "coordination" also become Quarterbacks or what not. That's where kids with those physical gifts are at these days.
</div>
Sure it may help, but there are obviously other more important things in golf when you have guys in this kind of shape.

Phil Mickelson is considered the 2nd best golfer:
mickelson_phil.jpg


Ernie Els at #3:
Els%204a.jpg



Els is in ok shape physically, but really in golf you need very very little cardiovascular ability. Some muscular strength, a lot of technique and coordination.

I would guess that if you went to a gym at a local university/college and grabbed an average person playing pick up basketball, that they could beat the average professional golfer in a footrace.

And I would also guess that the average say plumber is stronger than the average golfer, I wouldn't say that about football, hocker, or nba players.

Sidenote: of course, this arguement doesn't detract from Tigers' accomplishments. It just emphasizes how important the technique and skill part of golf is.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Mar 11 2008, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 11 2008, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 11 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 11 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MagicFan12 @ Mar 10 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tiger is the most dominant person in any sport. You can't even talk about golf today without mentioning Tiger at least once. He is even more synonymous with golf than Jordan is with basketball.</div>

If more black people were synonymous with Golf, that wouldn't be the case. Golf is low on the totem poll of sports people want to join, Fox even had a recent report on it's declining interest. Jordan had more athletic freaks to deal with.
</div>

Many NBA and NFL players play golf and take it seriously. They can't touch the PGA pros. Athleticism has very little to do with it, although obviously coordination is a huge help.
</div>


They can't dedicate all their time to that sport either. Being athletic obviously helps Tiger, so it does matter. He started a trend in that sport of being in great physical shape.

People with the right "coordination" also become Quarterbacks or what not. That's where kids with those physical gifts are at these days.
</div>
Sure it may help, but there are obviously other more important things in golf when you have guys in this kind of shape.

Phil Mickelson is considered the 2nd best golfer:
mickelson_phil.jpg


Ernie Els at #3:
Els%204a.jpg



Els is in ok shape physically, but really in golf you need very very little cardiovascular ability. Some muscular strength, a lot of technique and coordination.

I would guess that if you went to a gym at a local university/college and grabbed an average person playing pick up basketball, that they could beat the average professional golfer in a footrace.

And I would also guess that the average say plumber is stronger than the average golfer, I wouldn't say that about football, hocker, or nba players.
</div>

Look at my post again, I edited it to make a completely different point since I originally made a typo.
 
While golf doesn't necessarily take athleticism, it does take skill, and Tiger Woods is perhaps the most skilled "athlete" at his particular sport.
 
I always think the true measure of an athlete or a team is the ability to produce results when playing below your best, and golf is a sport that can absolutely crucify you if you're even slightly off your game. For all his clutch putting, long hitting, short game and freak iron shots, Tiger is also by far the best scrambler. A lot has been made of the two eagle putts in the third round, but for the majority of that tournament he played very poorly, missing fairways and greens. But his ability to hang in there and make good scores from poor positions is absolutely unbelievable. Mentally, the only athlete I've seen who compares is Michael Jordan.
 
the thing is.... when under pressure, he makes the shots he needs to. Look at the shot at 15. In the bunker on the 9th hole, Rocco is on the green in 2, Tiger hits an amazing shot to within 15'.

And he makes the putts in clutch situations.

He is the greatest golfer I have ever seen; and probably is the most dominant golfer ever.
 
I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir Desmond @ Jun 17 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.</div>
I agree with you dear.

You guys are comparing individual players to sports that are very different. Golf is obviously a different type of game than basketball or football and therefore irrevelant to compare in difficulty. The same way some of you guys say these golfers can't play basketball is the same as golf. I'd love to see Kobe or someone elite in their sport play against Tiger Woods. Simply put, there is no matchup.

But like Vintage and Desmond said its more of a matter of opinion. And a lot of you guys don't respect the game of golf like you do basketball. Jesus called them all 'Fatties' so that clearly shows his point of view.
 
ABC used to have a show about athletes from different sports competing in various events to determine who was the best athlete. Believe it or not, golfers and race car drivers were at or near the top every time.

It is a mistake to assume that golfers aren't physically gifted athletes. Golf may seem like an easy sport, but it isn't. The guys walk a couple of miles, minimum. It's one thing to come off the first tee strong, but a very different one to be mentally and physically sharp at the 18th hole, four hours later. Physical conditioning is extremely important.

A 2 foot putt on the municipal golf course is one thing, but a 2 foot putt for $500K and a championship is intense pressure.

There are 50,000+ scratch golfers in the USA. Few are good enough to make the tour, let alone dominate it. Just making the tour makes you an elite golfer. Tiger is the elite of the elite.

I'd add Mike Tyson as a guy who dominated until his brain imploded. I have seen a lot of the great boxers over the years, including Ali and Foreman and Frazier and so on. Foreman was an incredible puncher who could end a fight out-of-the-blue. On numerous occasions, Tyson would land his first punch of the fight and you could see it in his opponent's eyes that he didn't want to get hit again. I'm talking about a punch to the ribs or arms or whatever. He simply scared the shit out of people who got in the ring with him.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice @ Jun 17 2008, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir Desmond @ Jun 17 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.</div>
I agree with you dear.

You guys are comparing individual players to sports that are very different. Golf is obviously a different type of game than basketball or football and therefore irrevelant to compare in difficulty. The same way some of you guys say these golfers can't play basketball is the same as golf. I'd love to see Kobe or someone elite in their sport play against Tiger Woods. Simply put, there is no matchup.

But like Vintage and Desmond said its more of a matter of opinion. And a lot of you guys don't respect the game of golf like you do basketball. Jesus called them all 'Fatties' so that clearly shows his point of view.

</div>


To add to this: Phil has dedicated himself to working out more so he can compete with Tiger. Physical fitness isn't necessarily required in golf, but like any sport, it does go a long way...


OT: Is this Ice from JBB way back when?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jun 17 2008, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To add to this: Phil has dedicated himself to working out more so he can compete with Tiger. Physical fitness isn't necessarily required in golf, but like any sport, it does go a long way...


OT: Is this Ice from JBB way back when?</div>
Yes sir. How have you been? I miss old school JBB.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>ABC used to have a show about athletes from different sports competing in various events to determine who was the best athlete. Believe it or not, golfers and race car drivers were at or near the top every time.</div>
That doesn't surprise me at all. Discipline goes a long way, and those sports require a lot of it.

I don't follow boxing one bit and personally hate it, but all my guy friends always have those fights on. Tyson always put fear in every guy he matched up against.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir Desmond @ Jun 17 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd go one step further and say he's the best athlete I've ever seen, but that's just a matter of opinion.</div>


Yeah, I can't really argue against it...

Its just incredible how he plays under pressure. Especially the putting. Rocco said that on the 18th playoff hole, his nerves got to him and he yanked the putter a little bit. Tiger needed birdie to win the hole and force the playoff....and he did.

The putt on 18 on Sunday? That's stuff legends are made from. And everytime he needs a putt, he goes to the well, and delivers.
 
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