Forum Game How much longer do you think Olshey deserves?

[Reep]

I don't remember anyone clamoring for Nurk, or even really being excited about getting him. From what I remember the reaction to the trade was relief that we'd get the 1st round pick back that we spent to get Plumlee. Nurk was going to be a big body that wasn't Meyers Leonard. Whoever was clamoring for him should get an award.

There were several of us who saw Denvers depth at center and wondered about how to get one of them in trade. Nurkic was the most common want because he came off the bench and usually destroyed us when he did.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Olshey deserves extra time if Zach Collins turns out good. But having said that, if anyone better was available, I would shed no tears if he were fired. Trouble is, it's very hard to judge GM talent. We all thought the sun shone out of Pritchard's arse but he's done nothing good in Indiana.

I don't know why Paul Allen doesn't use his obscene wealth where it counts to get front office staff. There's no salary cap there. Just throw ridiculous money at someone like Sam Presti, or hell, even Pat Riley. Or both. Why not?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Just to stir the pot: what is it with Olshey and white players? The players he always seems to decide he "has" to have in a draft ("I identify the player I want and then I go get him") are, often as not, white. Meyers, Pat, Layman, Collins. The other three aren't making me too hopeful about the latest in the line.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Just to stir the pot: what is it with Olshey and white players? The players he always seems to decide he "has" to have in a draft ("I identify the player I want and then I go get him") are, often as not, white. Meyers, Pat, Layman, Collins. The other three aren't making me too hopeful about the latest in the line.

CJ is pretty white...

I don't remember Neil "going after" Pat, and definitely not Meyers. He went after Crabbe, and Lillard.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

CJ is pretty white...

I don't remember Neil "going after" Pat, and definitely not Meyers. He went after Crabbe, and Lillard.

Okay, I should say "disproportionately". I don't really know the deal with Pat - was he a throw in or did we ask in advance to get him? Certainly he fell in love with Lillard, sure, and to some extent he coasted on that until getting Nurkic.

(CJ is great, but we still would be better off with Antetokounmpo or Gobert. You know that neither the Bucks nor the Jazz would trade either for CJ.)

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Okay, I should say "disproportionately". I don't really know the deal with Pat - was he a throw in or did we ask in advance to get him? Certainly he fell in love with Lillard, sure, and to some extent he coasted on that until getting Nurkic.

(CJ is great, but we still would be better off with Antetokounmpo or Gobert. You know that neither the Bucks nor the Jazz would trade either for CJ.)

I like your posts a lot, but revisionist drafting is tiresome.
Freak couldn't play or shoot. Very few similar players make it into the league at all. Gobert had legendary measurements, but most Euro bigs have failed in the past. CJ was an awesome pick which NO nailed.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I like your posts a lot,

Thanks!

but revisionist drafting is tiresome.
Freak couldn't play or shoot. Very few similar players make it into the league at all. Gobert had legendary measurements, but most Euro bigs have failed in the past. CJ was an awesome pick which NO nailed.

But look: THIS IS WHAT FRONT OFFICES ARE PAID TO DO. They have enormous resources that we don't have. And some of them are incredibly good at it. CJ was a "safe" pick. We should hold FOs to higher standards than us idiots.

Yes, none of US knew what Antetokounmpo could become, and maybe nobody. And yet the Bucks took him with a first rounder. So somebody must've thought something, and they were right. Gobert was no fluke, though. He was rated really highly as some point in the previous year. People got scared by something, a la Batum, and they fucked up.

No, most "Euro bigs" have not failed in the past any more than most American bigs. It's not like there hadn't been the Gasols, Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki before that. Sure there's "Big Jake" as a costly failure, but there are a million US college bigs who've failed too.

 

[dviss1]

I don't remember anyone clamoring for Nurk, or even really being excited about getting him. From what I remember the reaction to the trade was relief that we'd get the 1st round pick back that we spent to get Plumlee. Nurk was going to be a big body that wasn't Meyers Leonard. Whoever was clamoring for him should get an award.

This is not correct. There were several posters in here who were talking about Nurkić before the season started. And when he was acquired most in here were jubilant. What are you talking about.

 

[dviss1]

Just to stir the pot: what is it with Olshey and white players? The players he always seems to decide he "has" to have in a draft ("I identify the player I want and then I go get him") are, often as not, white. Meyers, Pat, Layman, Collins. The other three aren't making me too hopeful about the latest in the line.

Jesus...

Al-farouq aminu is probably as black as you can get.

Just stop.

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

Thanks!


But look: THIS IS WHAT FRONT OFFICES ARE PAID TO DO. They have enormous resources that we don't have. And some of them are incredibly good at it. CJ was a "safe" pick. We should hold FOs to higher standards than us idiots.

Yes, none of US knew what Antetokounmpo could become, and maybe nobody. And yet the Bucks took him with a first rounder. So somebody must've thought something, and they were right. Gobert was no fluke, though. He was rated really highly as some point in the previous year. People got scared by something, a la Batum, and they fucked up.

No, most "Euro bigs" have not failed in the past any more than most American bigs. It's not like there hadn't been the Gasols, Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki before that. Sure there's "Big Jake" as a costly failure, but there are a million US college bigs who've failed too.

I think most people (righfully, I'd say - but personally I thought he'd be ok but no where near he is now) questioned Gobert's lateral quickness.

Disagree with CJ( or Lillard for that matter) being safe picks. Foot problems are notorious for lingering on. I would wager a good amount that they both 'slipped' or were rated poorly for medical concerns by other teams. Also, I recall people saying neither of them would be able to translate their game as well to better competition.

And I think Lillard kind of lobbied for Meyers, because I recall him saying at some point that Olshey asked him about other players in the draft and he said he and Leonard hit it off well or something like that.

 

[dviss1]

Thanks!


But look: THIS IS WHAT FRONT OFFICES ARE PAID TO DO. They have enormous resources that we don't have. And some of them are incredibly good at it. CJ was a "safe" pick. We should hold FOs to higher standards than us idiots.

Yes, none of US knew what Antetokounmpo could become, and maybe nobody. And yet the Bucks took him with a first rounder. So somebody must've thought something, and they were right. Gobert was no fluke, though. He was rated really highly as some point in the previous year. People got scared by something, a la Batum, and they fucked up.

No, most "Euro bigs" have not failed in the past any more than most American bigs. It's not like there hadn't been the Gasols, Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki before that. Sure there's "Big Jake" as a costly failure, but there are a million US college bigs who've failed too.

Nurk is gonna treat Gobert like a child next season. LOL.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Nurk is gonna treat Gobert like a child next season. LOL.

That could still be true and yet Gobert could still be better for his team.

Deron Williams always used to outplay Chris Paul...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think most people (righfully, I'd say - but personally I thought he'd be ok but no where near he is now) questioned Gobert's lateral quickness.

He certainly tested poorly at the combine. But I heard he was sick.

Disagree with CJ( or Lillard for that matter) being safe picks. Foot problems are notorious for lingering on. I would wager a good amount that they both 'slipped' or were rated poorly for medical concerns by other teams. Also, I recall people saying neither of them would be able to translate their game as well to better competition.

Two good points. But still, in both cases there was a body of video that you could point to and say "see? See how great he is?" That's the sense in which they were less of a gamble than somebody from Spain's B-league.

And I think Lillard kind of lobbied for Meyers, because I recall him saying at some point that Olshey asked him about other players in the draft and he said he and Leonard hit it off well or something like that.

Okay, but who's the GM here?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Jesus...

Al-farouq aminu is probably as black as you can get.

Just stop.

So you're going by skin tone? That's the Brazilian way.

 

[e_blazer]

One thing I think is certain: if Olshey had known he was going to be able to get Nurkic, he wouldn't have spent so much money last summer.

 

[kjironman1]

Just to stir the pot: what is it with Olshey and white players? The players he always seems to decide he "has" to have in a draft ("I identify the player I want and then I go get him") are, often as not, white. Meyers, Pat, Layman, Collins. The other three aren't making me too hopeful about the latest in the line.

Yeah.... You sure stirred the pot on that one.
Go back and really look at Olshey's draft history (His entire career) and get back to us.

 

[kjironman1]

One thing I think is certain: if Olshey had known he was going to be able to get Nurkic, he wouldn't have spent so much money last summer.

That might be true but who ever really knows? Nurkic's situation became toxic in Denver because of playing time and as i understand "Locker room" issues involving other players. Nurkic wanted out as well as the Blazers had a player that would fit into their system. People also forget Plumlee developed quite a bit in Portland. His motor was always there but his free throw shooting improved and he also gained a few post moves and passing ability. Plumlee became a better asset that was movable.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Thanks!


But look: THIS IS WHAT FRONT OFFICES ARE PAID TO DO. They have enormous resources that we don't have. And some of them are incredibly good at it. CJ was a "safe" pick. We should hold FOs to higher standards than us idiots.

Yes, none of US knew what Antetokounmpo could become, and maybe nobody. And yet the Bucks took him with a first rounder. So somebody must've thought something, and they were right. Gobert was no fluke, though. He was rated really highly as some point in the previous year. People got scared by something, a la Batum, and they fucked up.

No, most "Euro bigs" have not failed in the past any more than most American bigs. It's not like there hadn't been the Gasols, Divac, Sabonis, Nowitzki before that. Sure there's "Big Jake" as a costly failure, but there are a million US college bigs who've failed too.

People who win lotteries aren't "right" regardless of how much information they have. GF was a superhigh variance pick - it was rolling a dice. The dice landing boxcars doesn't mean the Bucks were "smart" and NO should have rolled that same dice with the 10th pick. The Cavs did that with a certain Canadian player with the #1 pick, and they have appropriately received criticism.

 

[e_blazer]

That might be true but who ever really knows? Nurkic's situation became toxic in Denver because of playing time and as i understand "Locker room" issues involving other players. Nurkic wanted out as well as the Blazers had a player that would fit into their system. People also forget Plumlee developed quite a bit in Portland. His motor was always there but his free throw shooting improved and he also gained a few post moves and passing ability. Plumlee became a better asset that was movable.

The only reason I say that is because in hindsight, Olshey has a much tougher time managing his cap now that he's going to have to re-sign Nurk next summer. I think one of the main reasons for spending the cap space last summer was so he'd have assets to move when he found a trade for a star who might eventually become available. He got his future star without having to move a high-priced asset.

 

[Driew]

The only reason I say that is because in hindsight, Olshey has a much tougher time managing his cap now that he's going to have to re-sign Nurk next summer. I think one of the main reasons for spending the cap space last summer was so he'd have assets to move when he found a trade for a star who might eventually become available. He got his future star without having to move a high-priced asset.

Absolutely correct.

 

[kjironman1]

The only reason I say that is because in hindsight, Olshey has a much tougher time managing his cap now that he's going to have to re-sign Nurk next summer. I think one of the main reasons for spending the cap space last summer was so he'd have assets to move when he found a trade for a star who might eventually become available. He got his future star without having to move a high-priced asset.

I just had this conversation on another site. There are people here talking like Olshey should be run out of town. That is just crazy talk. He paid some guys. Now i am not making any excuses for Meyers Leonard. I think he should be moved. But he started last year straight out of Shoulder surgery and then got injured again mid season. He was never healthy until the very end of the season and his play did in fact improve. If he has marked improvement again this year a 7 footer for 10 mill is very valuable and a good asset to trade. Next you have Turner who now looks better with the contract Hill just got from the Kings. If Turner goes without injury and meshes with Nurkic well this year Olshey starts to look like a genius. Then we have Crabbe? I did not want to match Crabbe last year but again the contracts they are handing out right now are starting to even that money out. Crabbe shot 44% from three point last year. He was almost 50% from the field. He was injured also most of the second half of the season and his mobility was definitely hampered. If Crabbe goes healthy and continues to improve. Neil Olshey will be in the conversation for GM of the year AGAIN!

 

[Sinobas]

Just to stir the pot: what is it with Olshey and white players? The players he always seems to decide he "has" to have in a draft ("I identify the player I want and then I go get him") are, often as not, white. Meyers, Pat, Layman, Collins. The other three aren't making me too hopeful about the latest in the line.

He must be a white supremist.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Neil's record seems quite good:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/olshene99x.html

 

[dviss1]

That could still be true and yet Gobert could still be better for his team.

Deron Williams always used to outplay Chris Paul...

Maybe, but I disagree. Nurk's style of play could survive on any team IMO. He does everything a center is needed to do. Gobert is almost an offensive liability.

 

[dviss1]

So you're going by skin tone? That's the Brazilian way.

Not at all. He's African. That's as black as you can get.

 

[Sinobas]

Look through Prichard's moves in Portland as GM. Most of them are not good. The only good ones were trading for Batum and Camby. He got a lot of the credit for drafting Roy and Aldridge, but he wasn't really the GM at that point. He also gets some cred for supposedly urging Nash to draft Chris Paul rather than trade down for Webster.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/pritcke01x.html

 

[Minstrel]

He got a lot of the credit for drafting Roy and Aldridge, but he wasn't really the GM at that point.

Yeah, but my recollection was that he was running the draft that year, as the GM-in-waiting. I could be mistaken, but that's why I remember him getting credit.

Honestly, I think Pritchard would be remembered as perhaps Portland's best GM had Oden been healthy. Oden/Roy/Aldridge/Batum would have been a homegrown powerhouse. Especially if he had been able to add Andre Miller to that, in this alternate reality.

But yeah, shit happens. Oden wasn't healthy and Pritchard didn't really do much good after that beyond signing Miller.

 

[Schilly]

Really simple answer to this question is to ask the real question at hand. Is the team better today than it was on July 4th 2015... some of you are so focused on the contracts but you are forgetting one thing the contracts are simply a side note it's all about the team on the floor. Ignoring the contracts is this team a "fire worthy" roster?

Would the team have been better by letting Crabbe walk, again ignore the contract. Would the team have been better without Turner? Harkless?

What is your focus the talent on the floor or the salary situation? Which is the more important of the 2? IMO fixing salary issues is easier than adding talent.

Youngest team in the league oversized contracts will expire while our oldest guys are still in their prime and our younger guys are just starting to enter prime.

 

[kjironman1]

Really simple answer to this question is to ask the real question at hand. Is the team better today than it was on July 4th 2015... some of you are so focused on the contracts but you are forgetting one thing the contracts are simply a side note it's all about the team on the floor. Ignoring the contracts is this team a "fire worthy" roster?

Would the team have been better by letting Crabbe walk, again ignore the contract. Would the team have been better without Turner? Harkless?

What is your focus the talent on the floor or the salary situation? Which is the more important of the 2? IMO fixing salary issues is easier than adding talent.

Youngest team in the league oversized contracts will expire while our oldest guys are still in their prime and our younger guys are just starting to enter prime.

Good points.

 

[H.C.]

I'm still wondering who people want instead of Olshey?

Anyone wanna take a stab at that one?

I want me instead of NO.
However I most certainly would stop coming to this forum. Due to the mass hysteria that exists when the GM doesn't move half the roster every year like this forum wants.

I however think NO is doing a fine job. I agree with MM he jumped the gun on signing a player like Turner last off-season. However it was a case of use the space or lose it. So can't hate on him for really anything he's done.
I just wish he could have got Nurk & Okafor.