How much stock do you put in "veteran leadership?"

[The Professional Fan]

With the signing of Miller and Howard I have to wonder how much their "veteran leadership" will positively affect the Blazers. What does it mean? It's something we've been "lacking" for years, so the pundits say. And I would agree to some degree, especially game #1 vs the Rockets in the playoffs last year.

With Miller, Howard, and now Roy to some extent providing "veteran leadership," are we set? Can we put that "weakness" to bed? And how many more wins do we think this leadership can deliver? Or are games won the true measurable? Perhaps the measurable is how many more BIG games won?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'd put a fair amount of stock in it ... as long as those veterans still have some game left; which I'm sure Miller does and think Juwan might (in limited stretches at least). Every team needs guys on the floor who know how to make defensive rotations and how to anticipate and communicate that to their teammates. Plus, as we saw what can happen last year in the playoffs, a squad full of rookie scale contracts and post-season virgins can struggle to adapt to the change in physicality of the game.

Miller and Howard coming onto the team are not the same as adding Raef and other semi-retired pros.

EDIT: I just wanted to add one more thing. There probably aren't a whole lot more regular season wins to be added -- 54 wins is the mark of a very good playoff team and getting to sixty from that point is whole other animal than getting from 40 to 50. What you hope is that their presence adds wins where it counts and that means in the post-season. Regular season records mean fuck all, except for seeding purposes.

 

[oldmangrouch]

"Big" games and the play-offs. That is where it will show up.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

With the signing of Miller and Howard I have to wonder how much their "veteran leadership" will positively affect the Blazers. What does it mean? It's something we've been "lacking" for years, so the pundits say. And I would agree to some degree, especially game #1 vs the Rockets in the playoffs last year.

With Miller, Howard, and now Roy to some extent providing "veteran leadership," are we set? Can we put that "weakness" to bed? And how many more wins do we think this leadership can deliver? Or are games won the true measurable? Perhaps the measurable is how many more BIG games won?

I think it's overrated unless they are making a significant impact on the floor which Andre will be. Juwan, not so much.

Does Juwan make us tougher?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Juwan doesn't make us tougher. I suspect he gives us a warm body during practice, or someone to get in there when Greg is down with 5 fouls and Nate insists on taking Joel out...

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Juwan doesn't make us tougher. I suspect he gives us a warm body during practice, or someone to get in there when Greg is down with 5 fouls and Nate insists on taking Joel out...

Agree which brings me to this point.

Kevin Pritchard stated right after the blazers were ousted out of the playoffs that there was one area that he wanted to improve on the team. Toughness. I don't know, is this team tougher now than what they were in late April?

I don't feel they are.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Agree which brings me to this point.

Kevin Pritchard stated right after the blazers were ousted out of the playoffs that there was one area that he wanted to improve on the team. Toughness. I don't know, is this team tougher now than what they were in late April?

I don't feel they are.

Well, I feel like he tried to address toughness, but toughness' address unfortunately stayed in Utah.

At this point I think he's hoping that Greg will eat his wheaties and Nic will blow up. Both of which I'm praying for every night.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Well, I feel like he tried to address toughness, but toughness' address unfortunately stayed in Utah.

At this point I think he's hoping that Greg will eat his wheaties and Nic will blow up. Both of which I'm praying for every night.

I think he in a sense has settled and you are right that he is hoping some of these other guys will step up and be men.

I don't know, I personally felt you could have taken some of this talent, thinned it out and brought in some one with a lil more toughness. And then again, maybe not. I'm not Kp and trying to structure and negotiate deals.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I think he in a sense has settled and you are right that he is hoping some of these other guys will step up and be men.

I don't know, I personally felt you could have taken some of this talent, thinned it out and brought in some one with a lil more toughness. And then again, maybe not. I'm not Kp and trying to structure and negotiate deals.

Amen to thinning out the talent.

If he would have traded Outlaw and someone else for some toughness at the 4, that would have been a much better option than signing Howard and letting Outlaw, Martell and Nic battle it out for SF minutes.

That is, of course, dependent upon there being a good trade out there.

 

[rocketeer]

absolutely none.

i'll take better players over more experienced players every time.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Amen to thinning out the talent.

If he would have traded Outlaw and someone else for some toughness at the 4, that would have been a much better option than signing Howard and letting Outlaw, Martell and Nic battle it out for SF minutes.

That is, of course, dependent upon there being a good trade out there.

Let's face it, Outlaw is not a power forward. There is no "power" in his game.

 

[Entity]

I think they need the outside influence. The players are good, but they are still young and they need some pointers. I think a lot of that gets passed down, and for the last couple of seasons there hasn't been much opportunity for that. I'm not terribly bothered either way about the Howard signing, but I think there are definitely some ways both him and Miller will impact these players in practice and in the locker room.

 

[mook]

"More toughness" seems to be interpreted in this thread as adding brawniness at backup PF. I don't think that's the only way to add toughness.

Portland definitely got tougher at the PG position. The weakest, softest player on the team (Sergio) is gone. Our starting PG, who basically just camps at the three point line and launches threes, is almost certainly moving to the bench. In his place we've added a PG who (get this) LOVES to post up people. You know, shove smaller guards around, bully them. He also loves drawing contact and driving down the middle. He WILL finish in traffic. He will force you to foul him. He will rebound better than any PG we've had in a long time. And he will show up in the playoffs and put up nice numbers if other guys start to choke. He's a proven veteran point guard, and he may be quiet and a little slow and he can't hit a three, but he most definitely is tough.

We're going to have a point guard who loves to post up and rebound, Brandon Roy, and two huge physical centers. I'm really not that worried about toughness.

Truth is that Houston was tougher than us, but they were probably the toughest team in the playoffs (although certainly not the most talented). But we could've beat them if we'd just got some offensive production out of Outlaw. Or we'd had Miller on our team.

 

[oldmangrouch]

absolutely none.

i'll take better players over more experienced players every time.

Odd comment coming from a Rocket's fan.

McGrady
Artest
Battier

Which of those 3 has the least talent? Which is the most valuable to the team? *HINT* It's the same guy.

"Veteran Leadership" implies more than just "experience".......and Battier is the kind of veteran leader any smart coach loves to have. Hell - if you don't appreciate him, send him our way!

 

[rocketeer]

Odd comment coming from a Rocket's fan.

McGrady
Artest
Battier

Which of those 3 has the least talent? Which is the most valuable to the team? *HINT* It's the same guy.

"Veteran Leadership" implies more than just "experience".......and Battier is the kind of veteran leader any smart coach loves to have. Hell - if you don't appreciate him, send him our way!

healthy tmac was much more valuable to the rockets than battier.

"veteran leadership" is something that is incredibly overrated. roy is the blazers' leader. unless the blazers acquire a player better than roy(and there are only 5 or 6 of those in the league), roy is going to remain the blazers' leader. bring in veteran leaders isn't important. adding more talent(that fits with the team) is important.

 

[KingSpeed]

absolutely none.

i'll take better players over more experienced players every time.

Look at an experienced player like Derek Fisher did for the Lakers though. He hit the big shots to put the Magic away in Game 4. And I think some of that was because he'd been there before. It was his fifth Finals (and he hit clutch shots in the playoffs for Utah too) and he was probably more comfortable than some of the players on the Magic.

 

[rocketeer]

Look at an experienced player like Derek Fisher did for the Lakers though. He hit the big shots to put the Magic away in Game 4. And I think some of that was because he'd been there before. It was his fifth Finals (and he hit clutch shots in the playoffs for Utah too) and he was probably more comfortable than some of the players on the Magic.

for the playoffs he shot under 40% and under 30% from 3. he showed up in the finals but his "veteran leadership" wasn't doing shit until then.

 

[Pontius]

a lot.

 

[Mediocre Man]

A ton. Maybe not so much on a game by game situation, but more as a whole season type of thing. Veteran leadership can help right a team quicker if they get into a funk, help a team pace itself for the bigger picture, and help show some of our younger guys little tricks with the refs.

 

[The Professional Fan]

A ton. Maybe not so much on a game by game situation, but more as a whole season type of thing. Veteran leadership can help right a team quicker if they get into a funk, help a team pace itself for the bigger picture, and help show some of our younger guys little tricks with the refs.

This. Well said.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Quick, yesterday on the Game, told a story of his first practice with Portland. This should speak loudly of the importance of veteran leadership.

Quick reported that a few players wanted to be done, and Howard pushed them to keep playing. He also yelled at some of the players to feed Greg the ball in the post because he was hot. What's funny about that, is that Howard was the one guarding him LOL. At least Greg is playing against someone taller than 6'6".

 

[Foulzilla]

Quick, yesterday on the Game, told a story of his first practice with Portland. This should speak loudly of the importance of veteran leadership.

Quick reported that a few players wanted to be done, and Howard pushed them to keep playing. He also yelled at some of the players to feed Greg the ball in the post because he was hot. What's funny about that, is that Howard was the one guarding him LOL. At least Greg is playing against someone taller than 6'6".

That's interesting. How many guys would seriously yell at the opposing team (even though it's just practice) to keep taking advantage of him? That takes some real confidence and awareness.

 

[ant]

Isn't Howard the one who took out Derek Andersen?

 

[Foulzilla]

Isn't Howard the one who took out Derek Andersen?

Who didn't? DA could be taken out by a stiff breeze.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Look at an experienced player like Derek Fisher did for the Lakers though. He hit the big shots to put the Magic away in Game 4. And I think some of that was because he'd been there before. It was his fifth Finals (and he hit clutch shots in the playoffs for Utah too) and he was probably more comfortable than some of the players on the Magic.

Difference is Fisher had a significant role on that team on the floor. Not so sure Juwan will even have one on the floor.

 

[Cake]

I put a little stock in it, but not much.

It's interesting that we've added exactly 50 games of playoff experience with Miller and Howard. And only once has either guy gotten out of the first round. Howard with Dallas nearly 10 years ago. So they're not adding loads of experience like, for example, Allen Iverson. (Not that I would want him, he's the most overrated player in NBA history.)

All in all, I guess experience can't hurt, but I think some people put too much stock in it.

 

[Loyalty4Life]

I wrote this email to MB a couple months ago on Courtside. I still stand by my viewpoint.

MB,

How much do you value the idea of a veteran leader being brought onboard to help lead the team? You mentioned the bad trade of the Bulls. Fair point. But remember what we did before the 99-00 season. We landed Pippen, Steve Smith and Schrempf and went all the way to the WCF.

There is value in veteran leadership, and I'd like to see a vet being brought onboard onboard without losing the core of the team (Roy, LMA, Oden).

Give us your thoughts, please.

 

[mook]

But remember what we did before the 99-00 season. We landed Pippen, Steve Smith and Schrempf and went all the way to the WCF.

Of course, we also made it to the WCF the year before without veteran leaders like Pippen, Smith and Schrempf....

 

[Natebishop3]

Of course, we also made it to the WCF the year before without veteran leaders like Pippen, Smith and Schrempf....

And gave up. We could have beaten that Spurs team, and we lost a couple of heart breakers in the first two games of the series, but we gave up in the last two. I think Pip and Smitty would have helped get us over that. Sure, they weren't much help in game 7 of the WCF, but that game was just a meltdown.

With that said, I'm really glad to hear about Howard in his first practice. This team has desperately needed someone to knock some sense into our guards about feeding greg the ball.

 

[Boob-No-More]

There's physical toughness and there's mental toughness. Greg and Joel are both physically tough players, but what this team lacked during last year's play-offs was mental toughness. They were a very young team that were collectively mentally unprepared for the toughness of the NBA post season.

Howard and Miller are both very tough, physical players. But even more importantly, they have both been around long enough to have played against some of the greatest players in the history of the game. Last year in the play-offs the Blazers were intimidated by the Rockets and in awe of the whole play-off intensity/atmosphere. Having gone toe-to-toe for many years with guys like Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Shaq, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd in his prime, etc. Howard and Miller aren't going to be intimidated by, or in awe of anyone. You can't win in the post season if you are intimidated or awe struck. After a tough loss, you won't see Juwan Howard or Andre Miller chasing after Kobe like a little school girl seeking an autograph. With them around, I doubt you'll see any of our young players doing it either.

I expect Miller to make big contributions on the court. At this point, I don't expect much from Howard on the court. As a 13th or 14th man, any on-court production he provides is a bonus. Howard's real contributions will be in the locker room, in practice and on the bench. He will help keep the young guys focused, but will also keep them loose so they aren't scared or nervous in the post season. Even if he just takes one of our young players under his wing and mentors them and accelerates their learning curve, it will be well worth a roster spot and a 1-year veteran's minimum contract - especially if that one player is Greg Oden.

While Juwan is far from a superstar, back when most of our young players were just getting into basketball (8 - 10 years old), Juwan Howard was playing in the Final Four for Michigan and eventually making the NBA All-Star team and 3rd team All NBA. I guarantee every young player on our roster knows who Juwan Howard is. He is a veteran with great practice habits and a wealth of knowledge to share with our young players. I doubt is he averages even 10 MPG this year, but I'd much rather have him sitting on the bench and practicing with our young guys than Michael Ruffin (who is bascially the guy he replaces on our roster).

This is a great signing that has nothing to do with how much, or how little, Juwan Howard has left in the tank. His presence, experience and knowledge will benefit all of our young players and help them learn what they need to do to become successful in the NBA. Not many guys can say they've played 15 years in the NBA. If all Howard does is help teach the young guys how to take care of themselves and stay healthy during a long NBA season and in shape during the off season, he will be worth his contract.

BNM