How Valuable Is Kevin Pritchard To The Blazers? (Dime Mag)

[ABM]

FWIW............

http://dimemag.com/2010/06/how-valuable-is-kevin-pritchard-to-the-blazers/

Over the weekend, rumors surfaced suggesting Trail Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard’s days with the team are numbered. This would have seemed crazy not too long ago, when Pritchard was treated like a rock star in Portland and credited with building one of the League’s hottest up-and-coming young contenders. So what’s the problem now? Two Dime writers debate just how important (or expendable) Pritchard is to the Blazers:..................

 

[maxiep]

The Keep KP side won.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The Keep KP side won.

LOL. Yeah the other guy did not exactly win me over. Not sure he even believed what he wrote. Reminded me of a High School debate class when you are forced to take the side no one wants.

 

[mook]

The Keep KP side won.

Fuckin' A.

KP maybe a fucking prick for all I know. He may be a 100% bona fide douche. But guess what? It's pro-fucking-sports! 90% of anyone earning over a million bucks are douches. (50% earning under that are pricks too.) He may have hung his bosses out to dry on the Penn fiasco. Whatever. Fuck it. You live with all the crappy stupid dumbass things these pampered idiots do because finding elite performers is pretty goddamned hard.

And it's goddamned impossible to argue that Pritchard isn't an elite performer among GM's. Don't agree? Try replacing Roy, Aldridge and Batum with fucking Randy Foye, Tyrus Thomas and Joey Fucking Dorsey. "Oh, poor us, we're stuck at 50 wins." Guess what, fuckers? With those three wastes of oxygen we'd have a 25 GODDAMNED WIN TEAM this year! Yeeha! We're the Clippers Northwest! (Oh wait--the Clips won 29 games this year. I guess we'd be hoping to become the Clippers Northwest.)

It's utterly asinine that firing Pritchard is even a rumor.

Jesus.

Fuck.

 

[Entity]

Pundits saying firing Pritchard would be crazy, fans give him a 94% approval rating after this season. Why are they dragging this out? Keep him or cut him. Preferably, keep him. But Jesus, this kind of suspense is sadistic.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Fuckin' A.

KP maybe a fucking prick for all I know. He may be a 100% bona fide douche. But guess what? It's pro-fucking-sports! 90% of anyone earning over a million bucks are douches. (50% earning under that are pricks too.) He may have hung his bosses out to dry on the Penn fiasco. Whatever. Fuck it. You live with all the crappy stupid dumbass things these pampered idiots do because finding elite performers is pretty goddamned hard.

And it's goddamned impossible to argue that Pritchard isn't an elite performer among GM's. Don't agree? Try replacing Roy, Aldridge and Batum with fucking Randy Foye, Tyrus Thomas and Joey Fucking Dorsey. "Oh, poor us, we're stuck at 50 wins." Guess what, fuckers? With those three wastes of oxygen we'd have a 25 GODDAMNED WIN TEAM this year! Yeeha! We're the Clippers Northwest! (Oh wait--the Clips won 29 games this year. I guess we'd be hoping to become the Clippers Northwest.)

It's utterly asinine that firing Pritchard is even a rumor.

Jesus.

Fuck.

Fuck KP

 

[mook]

Fuck KP

Fuck that!

 

[Entity]

The Keep KP side won.

I think in the end, whether or not he's here, Pritchard will have won. Because if he stays, he wins. If he goes, someone is going to give him a nice contract, and he wins.

 

[Masbee]

The let KP go side of the argument was TERRIBLE.

Cracking lame jokes. Blaming KP for picking Oden. Complaining that the Andre Miller contract is too much, when it is in-fact an excellent value per year, and only a 2 year committment.

Garbage.

If you want a better dump KP argument (that still pulls its punches) see my posts in the Presti thread.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Fuck that!

I was just pulling your chain. But don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

 

[mook]

I was just pulling your chain. But don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

lol. Yeah, I know.

Still, fuck that!

 

[Masbee]

Fuckin' A.

KP maybe a fucking prick for all I know. He may be a 100% bona fide douche. But guess what? It's pro-fucking-sports! 90% of anyone earning over a million bucks are douches.

Who are you arguing against? This is mostly a strawman.

I guess it comes up from time to time, but KP being a prick is not a central issue in any argument as to why he is on the outs, and maybe shouldn't be considered a Golden Boy. It is based on his performance. Or lack thereof.

He may have hung his bosses out to dry on the Penn fiasco. Whatever. Fuck it.

Not if this was a "last straw" type action, which I think it may have been. Paul Allen was in a trial separation with KP at the time of the Penn situation. Either the marriage gets repaired or you head to Divorce Court. What does KP do? Let's a pitbull run loose (his agent) and takes no responsibility for the crap everywhere. Bad move if you ask me. Not a "fuck it" and move on situation.

You live with all the crappy stupid dumbass things these pampered idiots do because finding elite performers is pretty goddamned hard.

True. Which is why the trial separation. Which is why the Blazers tried to make this a smooth transition.

And it's goddamned impossible to argue that Pritchard isn't an elite performer among GM's. Don't agree? Try replacing Roy, Aldridge and Batum with fucking Randy Foye, Tyrus Thomas and Joey Fucking Dorsey. "Oh, poor us, we're stuck at 50 wins." Guess what, fuckers? With those three wastes of oxygen we'd have a 25 GODDAMNED WIN TEAM this year! Yeeha! We're the Clippers Northwest! (Oh wait--the Clips won 29 games this year. I guess we'd be hoping to become the Clippers Northwest.)

Sure, if we still had Nash we might have that roster. But, otherwise a pretty silly argument.

Another way to look at it: KP was ASSISTANT GM during the 2006 draft. So we already have Roy and Aldridge by the time KP at a very young age got promoted to GM. What has he done as GM? Based on his poor performance during the Roy and Aldridge contract negotiations, and during the Miles disaster and during the wooing of David Lee and then Hedo, I can see pretty clearly that this very young GM, is in fact, very young and needs more experience. He was in over his head.

Jesus.

He can't help now.

Fuck.

This may be all you have.

 

[e_blazer]

Fuckin' A.

KP maybe a fucking prick for all I know. He may be a 100% bona fide douche. But guess what? It's pro-fucking-sports! 90% of anyone earning over a million bucks are douches. (50% earning under that are pricks too.) He may have hung his bosses out to dry on the Penn fiasco. Whatever. Fuck it. You live with all the crappy stupid dumbass things these pampered idiots do because finding elite performers is pretty goddamned hard.

And it's goddamned impossible to argue that Pritchard isn't an elite performer among GM's. Don't agree? Try replacing Roy, Aldridge and Batum with fucking Randy Foye, Tyrus Thomas and Joey Fucking Dorsey. "Oh, poor us, we're stuck at 50 wins." Guess what, fuckers? With those three wastes of oxygen we'd have a 25 GODDAMNED WIN TEAM this year! Yeeha! We're the Clippers Northwest! (Oh wait--the Clips won 29 games this year. I guess we'd be hoping to become the Clippers Northwest.)

It's utterly asinine that firing Pritchard is even a rumor.

Jesus.

Fuck.

Having a tourettes day? Not that I disagree with the sentiment.

 

[ebott]

I think in the end, whether or not he's here, Pritchard will have won. Because if he stays, he wins. If he goes, someone is going to give him a nice contract, and he wins.

I don't know about that. If the big deal with him is that he doesn't get along with other NBA types he might have a rough go of it. After all, it is other NBA types that hire GMs.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I don't consider KP an "elite" GM.....but how many of those are there, and which of them is available?

Why dump a competent employee unless you know someone better is available?

 

[barfo]

Maybe it's all a con. Maybe TP wasn't really fired and this whole thing is scripted by blazers marketing. This summer KP will be fired and not replaced. And then on opening day Blaze will run out on the court, do a trampoline dunk, and rip off his head, and it will be KP inside. And the team will be so inspired that it will go 82-0 in the regular season, and then lose 4-2 in the first round of the playoffs.

barfo

 

[BBert]

Fuckin' A.

KP maybe a fucking prick for all I know. He may be a 100% bona fide douche. But guess what? It's pro-fucking-sports! 90% of anyone earning over a million bucks are douches. (50% earning under that are pricks too.) He may have hung his bosses out to dry on the Penn fiasco. Whatever. Fuck it. You live with all the crappy stupid dumbass things these pampered idiots do because finding elite performers is pretty goddamned hard.

And it's goddamned impossible to argue that Pritchard isn't an elite performer among GM's. Don't agree? Try replacing Roy, Aldridge and Batum with fucking Randy Foye, Tyrus Thomas and Joey Fucking Dorsey. "Oh, poor us, we're stuck at 50 wins." Guess what, fuckers? With those three wastes of oxygen we'd have a 25 GODDAMNED WIN TEAM this year! Yeeha! We're the Clippers Northwest! (Oh wait--the Clips won 29 games this year. I guess we'd be hoping to become the Clippers Northwest.)

It's utterly asinine that firing Pritchard is even a rumor.

Jesus.

Fuck.

Ex-ac-a-lack-ally.

 

[BBert]

Maybe it's all a con. Maybe TP wasn't really fired and this whole thing is scripted by blazers marketing. This summer KP will be fired and not replaced. And then on opening day Blaze will run out on the court, do a trampoline dunk, and rip off his head, and it will be KP inside. And the team will be so inspired that it will go 82-0 in the regular season, and then lose 4-2 in the first round of the playoffs.

barfo

LOL. Time to cut back on the late night pro wraslin' Mr. Barfo.

 

[barfo]

LOL. Time to cut back on the late night pro wraslin' Mr. Barfo.

But I need to feed my family.

barfo

 

[mook]

Who are you arguing against? This is mostly a strawman.

I guess it comes up from time to time, but KP being a prick is not a central issue in any argument as to why he is on the outs, and maybe shouldn't be considered a Golden Boy. It is based on his performance. Or lack thereof.

Not if this was a "last straw" type action, which I think it may have been. Paul Allen was in a trial separation with KP at the time of the Penn situation. Either the marriage gets repaired or you head to Divorce Court. What does KP do? Let's a pitbull run loose (his agent) and takes no responsibility for the crap everywhere. Bad move if you ask me. Not a "fuck it" and move on situation.True. Which is why the trial separation. Which is why the Blazers tried to make this a smooth transition.

Sure, if we still had Nash we might have that roster. But, otherwise a pretty silly argument.

Another way to look at it: KP was ASSISTANT GM during the 2006 draft. So we already have Roy and Aldridge by the time KP at a very young age got promoted to GM. What has he done as GM? Based on his poor performance during the Roy and Aldridge contract negotiations, and during the Miles disaster and during the wooing of David Lee and then Hedo, I can see pretty clearly that this very young GM, is in fact, very young and needs more experience. He was in over his head.

He can't help now.

This may be all you have.

I think we just fundamentally disagree on this. Yes, a myriad of people are involved in the current Blazers roster. Just like a lot of people were involved in the Bush administration, Google or the Dharma Initiative. But at some point you have to buy into the idea that leadership matters most.

You are the only person I can remember reading who minimizes Pritchard's impact on the signature draft of the current Blazers (going through all sorts of contortions to pluck Roy and Aldridge out of all the crappy other options). Yes, he was the "assistant GM". But I've never heard the "real GM" (who was fired soon after) claim it was really his draft. Pretty much everybody besides you (as far as I know) thinks of that draft as Pritchard's finest hour. Show me some links that demonstrate it wasn't. I really think the burden of proof (beyond pointing at Pritchard's title at that time) is on you on that one.

Now let's talk about Batum. I noticed you didn't mention him. Is he the sort of typical random chance good luck that happens to all teams with a 25th pick? Because it seems like a ton of teams whiff on that kind of a pick every year.

Or what about Bayless. Do you think we should take a time machine and go back to the glory days of Jarret Jack instead? Because Jack is 26, and Bayless is 21, and they are basically the same caliber of player. Except that Bayless is 2 years into the NBA, getting quality minutes on a 50 win team, nearly doubling his PER from year 1 to 2, and Jack is 5 years into the league, seen small incremental growth in PER, and still has never seen a playoff game.

Are Batum and Bayless the sort of acquisitions that are no-brainers for practically any team? If so, how did we get them? Because when I look at both deals, I see heists.

Pritchard has had his failings. I thought his pursuit of Turkoglu was idiocy at the time, and I was delighted to see him screw that up. I still can't begin to understand why we gave up Zach Randolph for essentially nothing.

But those guys really aren't the core. GM's are remembered for signature moves. That's Roy, Aldridge and Batum. You seem to think it'd be some monumentally ridiculous bad luck to have Foye, Thomas and Dorsey instead of Roy, Aldridge and Batum. But when I look at the maneuvers we actually had to do to make those guys our guys, it looks to me like the odds were much more likely that FTD was our future instead of RAB.

 

[mook]

Having a tourettes day? Not that I disagree with the sentiment.

I think I might've had an unforeseen interaction between the Ritalin, double mocha and the eight ball of crank. It didn't seem that FUCK bad at SHIT the time, but PISS-SUCKER it did seem to leave me out of COCK sorts in retrospect. I'm feeling much better now, though. BARFO **** Thanks for humoring me. HCP FUCKER

 

[ABM]

And the team will be so inspired that it will go 82-0 in the regular season................... and then lose 4-2 in the first round of the playoffs.

barfo

I'm only willing to venture 18-0. The final outcome would be the same, though.

 

[ABM]

Now let's talk about Batum. I noticed you didn't mention him. Is he the sort of typical random chance good luck that happens to all teams with a 25th pick? Because it seems like a ton of teams whiff on that kind of a pick every year.....

Not mention, KP had to swing a deal with Houston to nab him. Apparently, word got out that SA was gonna take him (next) with their pick. KP would have none of that!

 

[jlprk]

I don't consider KP an "elite" GM.....but how many of those are there, and which of them is available? Why dump a competent employee unless you know someone better is available?

Because he's incompetent at negotiating salaries, and anyone could have drafted 1 star (Roy) and 2 good players (Aldridge, Batum) in 4 years of mostly early picks and Allen's money greasing trades.

P.S. Dime Magazine's articles are usually just as bad as this one.

 

[crandc]

Because he's incompetent at negotiating salaries, and anyone could have drafted 1 star (Roy) and 2 good players (Aldridge, Batum) in 4 years of mostly early picks and Allen's money greasing trades.

P.S. Dime Magazine's articles are usually just as bad as this one.

Not knowing the inside scoop (none of us do) it's hard for me to say yes or no to keeping KP.

But jlprk, if "anyone" could have done what KP did, why haven't they? Why haven't the Clippers, Warriors, Raptors, et all drafted "one" star and "two" good players? Why haven't they had back to back 50 win seasons, even with a ridiculous amount of injuries, if "any" GM could do that?

If the difference maker is Paul Allen's money, well, then, it doesn't matter who the GM is, right? So any Portland GM should be able to draft stars and talent? Well, why didn't they?

 

[BBert]

Pritchard has had his failings...I still can't begin to understand why we gave up Zach Randolph for essentially nothing.

I think that was the last vestiges of the team's tearing down/image overhaul. I'd bet he was told to get rid of Zach at all costs -- and he may even have agreed. At that point Zach had date raped, raced, punched, strip clubbed, drugged and gunned himself out of town -- at least as far as the press and most of the public was concerned. He was viewed as a public menace.

 

[Masbee]

I think we just fundamentally disagree on this. Yes, a myriad of people are involved in the current Blazers roster. Just like a lot of people were involved in the Bush administration, Google or the Dharma Initiative. But at some point you have to buy into the idea that leadership matters most.

You are the only person I can remember reading who minimizes Pritchard's impact on the signature draft of the current Blazers (going through all sorts of contortions to pluck Roy and Aldridge out of all the crappy other options). Yes, he was the "assistant GM". But I've never heard the "real GM" (who was fired soon after) claim it was really his draft. Pretty much everybody besides you (as far as I know) thinks of that draft as Pritchard's finest hour. Show me some links that demonstrate it wasn't. I really think the burden of proof (beyond pointing at Pritchard's title at that time) is on you on that one.

Yes leadership does matter. And part of being a good leader is spreading around at least some of the glory to the other people that were involved. In this aspect KP was a poor leader.

Also, why is the burden of proof on me to show that KP WAS NOT mostly responsible? I don't get that at all. I already concede he was heavily involved and that draft likely doesn't turn out as well without his involvement. I am only questioning the concept that KP was mostly responsible. I think that is a reasonable question, and without some support - I reject it.

Again, I will request a link to a quoted interview from a reputable news site from a high level Blazer that was involved in the 2006 draft that claims that KP was mostly responsible for the Blazers targeting and obtaining Roy and Aldridge.

Now let's talk about Batum. I noticed you didn't mention him. Is he the sort of typical random chance good luck that happens to all teams with a 25th pick? Because it seems like a ton of teams whiff on that kind of a pick every year.

It seems you haven't read my posts in the Presti thread. I have previously covered Batum.

Or what about Bayless. Do you think we should take a time machine and go back to the glory days of Jarret Jack instead? Because Jack is 26, and Bayless is 21, and they are basically the same caliber of player. Except that Bayless is 2 years into the NBA, getting quality minutes on a 50 win team, nearly doubling his PER from year 1 to 2, and Jack is 5 years into the league, seen small incremental growth in PER, and still has never seen a playoff game.

Are Batum and Bayless the sort of acquisitions that are no-brainers for practically any team? If so, how did we get them? Because when I look at both deals, I see heists.

Batum I am excited about. Be aware he has yet to prove much in the NBA in terms of having a high level impact. He could still yet have a blah career. But, I am excited.

Bayless - not so much. I think he is a decent prospect, but he is still a solid jump shot away from being a 6th man combo guard on a good team. It is no guarantee that he develops the solid jumper.

Anyway, I am not unhappy with the Blazer drafting after the 2006 draft. I think it has been solid. But, the team has plenty of misses as well: 2007: Josh McRoberts, Taureen Green and Nichols over Marc Gasol and Ramon Sessions; 2008: Bayless over Robin Lopez (and kept Jack as well). 2009: Victor Claver over Dejaun Blair. And, we had a miss in 2006: Joel Freeland over Paul Millsap.

Pritchard has had his failings. I thought his pursuit of Turkoglu was idiocy at the time, and I was delighted to see him screw that up. I still can't begin to understand why we gave up Zach Randolph for essentially nothing.

But those guys really aren't the core. GM's are remembered for signature moves. That's Roy, Aldridge and Batum. You seem to think it'd be some monumentally ridiculous bad luck to have Foye, Thomas and Dorsey instead of Roy, Aldridge and Batum. But when I look at the maneuvers we actually had to do to make those guys our guys, it looks to me like the odds were much more likely that FTD was our future instead of RAB.

What team (outside of the chronically very worst run) would have ended up with ALL whiffs from their lottery picks? Your fantasy that we end up with 3 guys who were on 3 different teams strikes me as odd. The same scouts that agreed with KP that we should target Aldridge and Roy are still in the war room. Even if we don't make tons of trades, we could have have just selected Roy with the 4th pick. The implausible - all negative result fantasy can only happen when a GM like Nash overrides everyone else to select Telfair over Jefferson and Webster over Chris Paul.

How long does KP get to hang his hat on one draft - when he was assistant GM?

When do we start assessing his record as GM? As you note he has made as many (if not more) misses as hits.

Try this exercise: Asses the record of KP AFTER the 2006 draft. Now argue that he is a high level GM based on that record.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Masbee, I agree with most everything you are saying, but I keep coming back to the same point: who will replace him? If they have a can't miss candidate secretly lined up - that's one thing. If they are just taking a blind gamble that they will stumble across somebody better - I can't agree with the move.

 

[RoyToy]

Masbee, I agree with most everything you are saying, but I keep coming back to the same point: who will replace him? If they have a can't miss candidate secretly lined up - that's one thing. If they are just taking a blind gamble that they will stumble across somebody better - I can't agree with the move.

And realistically, how long could this list possibly be? 5 names tops? If that? And those names are guys that probably have no reason to leave their current team.

 

[mook]

Try this exercise: Asses the record of KP AFTER the 2006 draft. Now argue that he is a high level GM based on that record.

So you are saying, "Yeah, well, throw out the two most productive players we've acquired in the past 5 years, and then tell me how good Pritchard is." If you handicap the evaluation of every GM that way, I doubt you'll come up with more than one or two good GM's in the NBA.