Howard a possibility still?

[Natebishop3]

The key is for them to take no more than $38M combined. That means we'd only need to clear $15M. That means we could keep Crabbe, Harkless, and Plumlee/Vonleh while only trading away Davis, Plumlee/Vonleh, and renouncing Meyers.

So hypothetically we could keep AC, Hark, and Plums and then try to fill the roster a little more. CLE pick and Connaught on for Robert Covington, then go after a Jarrett Jack or David West with the cap space exception

That's not gonna happen. We either offered max or near max to Parsons. Dwight supposedly wants 24 a year.

 

[TBpup]

I mentioned this in another thread, and I don't have a clear idea of how it would work, but isn't it true that we wouldn't necessarily have to clear cap space to make this work? There's still the possibility of doing a sign-and-trade involving the Rockets, maybe even including a third team.

That is possible but S&T deals are much less frequent than they used to be because of some changes in the last CBA. If both teams wanted to make it happen, it still could happen.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Let's say that Houston liked Meyers or Harkless enough to take them on starting at around $16M or so and Dwight would agree to a S & T starting at around $25, seems like the Blazers could clear enough to absorb the difference. Probably reasons why that doesn't work, but as far as I can see, as long as one of those guys was amenable to the idea and didn't sign any other offer sheets, it seems plausible.

If the end result of the deal would leave us under the cap, the S&T wouldn't be needed.

If the end result of the deal puts us over the cap, then our outgoing salary (for the $25M in your example) would need to be $20M. However, when re-signing your own free agent for a sign-and-trade deal, and that free agent gets a raise of at least 20% over his old salary, the signing-and-trading team's outgoing salary for that player and deal is only HALF of his new salary. So, even if we signed/traded Leonard to a max ($22M) deal, for salary matching purposes we'd only be sending out $11M, so we wouldn't be permitted to take back a $25M deal.

This is the "base-year-compensation" rule, and it makes simultaneous sign-and-trade deals virtually impossible.

 

[e_blazer]

If Houston wants to pay Leonard $21M, we should jump all over that S&T.

If Houston wants to pay Leonard $10.5M and Harkless $10.5M, we should do that, too.

I see that a 3rd team might want to take one of those two, but I'm not seeing why Houston would facilitate it.

As of right now, Houston's getting zip for Howard. Why wouldn't they want to get some good young talent in return for him?

 

[BonesJones]

Let's say that Houston liked Meyers or Harkless enough to take them on starting at around $16M or so and Dwight would agree to a S & T starting at around $25, seems like the Blazers could clear enough to absorb the difference. Probably reasons why that doesn't work, but as far as I can see, as long as one of those guys was amenable to the idea and didn't sign any other offer sheets, it seems plausible.

If Houston wants to pay Leonard $21M, we should jump all over that S&T.

If Houston wants to pay Leonard $10.5M and Harkless $10.5M, we should do that, too.

I see that a 3rd team might want to take one of those two, but I'm not seeing why Houston would facilitate it.

Meyers would only count as $10.5M in an outgoing sign and trade if we signed him for $21M. With the fact that you can't trade him with anyone else, a sign and trade with one of our RFAs and Dwight would be impossible

 

[EGame]

Why do I get the feeling Parsons will just kick us in the nuts and the plan goes to hell lol.

 

[Natebishop3]

Look at it this way: If we were offered a trade last season that netted us Howard and Parsons, and we only had to send out Leonard, Harkless, Davis, Montero, and Alexander. Wouldn't you accept that?

(I'm not counting Hendo/Kaman/Roberts because they were gone no matter what.)

 

[Denny Crane]

If the end result of the deal would leave us under the cap, the S&T wouldn't be needed.

If the end result of the deal puts us over the cap, then our outgoing salary (for the $25M in your example) would need to be $20M. However, when re-signing your own free agent for a sign-and-trade deal, and that free agent gets a raise of at least 20% over his old salary, the signing-and-trading team's outgoing salary for that player and deal is only HALF of his new salary. So, even if we signed/traded Leonard to a max ($22M) deal, for salary matching purposes we'd only be sending out $11M, so we wouldn't be permitted to take back a $25M deal.

This is the "base-year-compensation" rule, and it makes simultaneous sign-and-trade deals virtually impossible.

I'm not sure where you got the 20%/HALF salary thing.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I'm not sure where you got the 20%/HALF salary thing.

Base Year Compensation rule, I think.

 

[Denny Crane]

As of right now, Houston's getting zip for Howard. Why wouldn't they want to get some good young talent in return for him?

They're getting $24M in cap space. They can use it to get whoever they want vs. whatever the Blazers have to offer.

 

[e_blazer]

If the end result of the deal would leave us under the cap, the S&T wouldn't be needed.

If the end result of the deal puts us over the cap, then our outgoing salary (for the $25M in your example) would need to be $20M. However, when re-signing your own free agent for a sign-and-trade deal, and that free agent gets a raise of at least 20% over his old salary, the signing-and-trading team's outgoing salary for that player and deal is only HALF of his new salary. So, even if we signed/traded Leonard to a max ($22M) deal, for salary matching purposes we'd only be sending out $11M, so we wouldn't be permitted to take back a $25M deal.

This is the "base-year-compensation" rule, and it makes simultaneous sign-and-trade deals virtually impossible.

Good point about BYC. I hadn't thought of that. Still, as long as they sign him for more than around $14 mil, the net salary differential would be more than his cap hold so we'd clear more with a S&T than we would by waiving him. We possibly wouldn't have to dump as many other players.

 

[Denny Crane]

Base Year Compensation rule, I think.

BYC doesn't apply to S&T.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Why do I get the feeling Parsons will just kick us in the nuts and the plan goes to hell lol.

Cuz that's what free agents do to the Blazers?

 

[EGame]

Cuz that's what free agents do to the Blazers?

Exactly. Always hope for the best but pretty much expect the worst in free agency.

 

[BonesJones]

The key is for them to take no more than $38M combined. That means we'd only need to clear $15M. That means we could keep Crabbe, Harkless, and Plumlee/Vonleh while only trading away Davis, Plumlee/Vonleh, and renouncing Meyers.

So hypothetically we could keep AC, Hark, and Plums and then try to fill the roster a little more. CLE pick and Connaught on for Robert Covington, then go after a Jarrett Jack or David West with the cap space exception

Darrell Arthur is another name to go after with the CSE

 

[e_blazer]

They're getting $24M in cap space. They can use it to get whoever they want vs. whatever the Blazers have to offer.

Yeah, but what FA would want to go to that shit hole?

 

[blue9]

Look at it this way: If we were offered a trade last season that netted us Howard and Parsons, and we only had to send out Leonard, Harkless, Davis, Montero, and Alexander. Wouldn't you accept that?

(I'm not counting Hendo/Kaman/Roberts because they were gone no matter what.)

Look at it this way: If we were offered a trade that netted us Howard/Parsons/2 draft picks, and we only had to send out Davis/Aminu/Harkless, wouldn't that be even better?

 

[BonesJones]

That's not gonna happen. We either offered max or near max to Parsons. Dwight supposedly wants 24 a year.

$20M for Parsons $18M for Dwight.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

BYC doesn't apply to S&T.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

Where are you getting that idea? The text of Q91 clearly states: "The player may be considered to have a lower outgoing salary for trade purposes, which can complicate the trade (see question number 89)," which refers back to the BYC section. BYC absolutely applies to S&T.

 

[e_blazer]

Meyers would only count as $10.5M in an outgoing sign and trade if we signed him for $21M. With the fact that you can't trade him with anyone else, a sign and trade with one of our RFAs and Dwight would be impossible

Not if we clear enough cap space that we'd be under the salary cap after the deal.

 

[e_blazer]

$20M for Parsons $18M for Dwight.

Forget about Harkless, who we don't need, and you might get to a number that would be somewhat possible.

 

[santeesioux]

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Good point about BYC. I hadn't thought of that. Still, as long as they sign him for more than around $14 mil, the net salary differential would be more than his cap hold so we'd clear more with a S&T than we would by waiving him. We possibly wouldn't have to dump as many other players.

No, because if we're not matching salaries on the trade (which we can't due to BYC), then the only way to make the deal would be for us to end up below the salary cap after the deal. The amount of the S/T player's new deal would have no impact on the Blazers' total team salary.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Mark Cuban: "YOU KNOW WHAT? FUCK CENTERS! THEY SUCK!!"

 

[Natebishop3]

$20M for Parsons $18M for Dwight.

But that's not what we offered...

 

[Denny Crane]

Where are you getting that idea? The text of Q91 clearly states: "The player may be considered to have a lower outgoing salary for trade purposes, which can complicate the trade (see question number 89)," which refers back to the BYC section. BYC absolutely applies to S&T.

EDIT: so we'd do this deal before inking Parsons.

The order of the deals seems to make it work fine.

 

[BonesJones]

But that's not what we offered...

I heard "near-max" for Parsons. I assume that means he'd take a little less to get Dwight. $20M seems right.

As an organization that has a great culture, a great fit for him, and had just signed his friend Parsons, I think we could nab Dwight for $18M by also giving him a 4 year contract with a player option after 3 years,

 

[e_blazer]

No, because if we're not matching salaries on the trade (which we can't due to BYC), then the only way to make the deal would be for us to end up below the salary cap after the deal. The amount of the S/T player's new deal would have no impact on the Blazers' total team salary.

Right now, the cap holds on Leonard and Harkless are somewhere around $7M, right? If you waive them to clear cap space to sign Howard, that's all you wipe off of team salary. If you S & T one of them for, say $17 M, you get credit for $8.5M off the books.

EDIT- Or maybe the full $17M if Denny is right.

 

[blue9]

Doesn't want the public humiliation of being rebuffed by Howard, and is too smart to pursue Biyombo.

 

[Denny Crane]

Right now, the cap holds on Leonard and Harkless are somewhere around $7M, right? If you waive them to clear cap space to sign Howard, that's all you wipe off of team salary. If you S & T one of them for, say $17 M, you get credit for $8.5M off the books.

EDIT- Or maybe the full $17M if Denny is right.

The $8.5M would affect the Rockets' calculations, not ours. Ours would be the full $17M.